Post Vaccination Behavior

[Calico]

I've got zero interest in being in unmasked in close quarters with unmasked people that I don't know have been vaccinated. Has nothing to do with the relative efficacy of the J&J vaccine that I got and everything to do with the risk profile of unvaccinated people. The vaccines are not 100% effective in preventing infection and we don't have data on what long term symptoms a non-hospitalization requiring infection of Covid may be. J&J is extremely effective against death and acute hospitalization from Covid, but right now there are a lot of questions around what leads to long haul Covid, how much damage there is, etc. I'd like to enjoy my life and my activities AND avoid having personal experience with the latter.

This sums up exactly how I feel as well.

 

[MarieIG]

On Monday morning we will be at a hospital in Newcastle to give a blood sample as part of the mixed vaccine trial we are in. We planned to visit the ancient town of Tynemouth on the way back but there has just been an outbreak of the Covid variant B.1.617 that has hit the town. B.1.617 was first discovered in India, and since this a “variant of concern” and mass testing is underway in several parts of the country because of other B.1.617 outbreaks we have decided to go elsewhere on our way home.

Even though it has been 4 weeks since our 2nd vaccine we still don’t feel like knowingly traveling into Covid hotspots.

Dr. John Campbell (a Covid Commentator) from the UK mentioned this in his podcast; I believe from last night, about 6:30 minutes in. He had been advocating that incoming flights from India to be suspended for a few weeks before it was finally done, to attempt to evade an influx of the Indian variant.

 

[Lienlord]

I've got zero interest in being in unmasked in close quarters with unmasked people that I don't know have been vaccinated. Has nothing to do with the relative efficacy of the J&J vaccine that I got and everything to do with the risk profile of unvaccinated people. The vaccines are not 100% effective in preventing infection and we don't have data on what long term symptoms a non-hospitalization requiring infection of Covid may be. J&J is extremely effective against death and acute hospitalization from Covid, but right now there are a lot of questions around what leads to long haul Covid, how much damage there is, etc. I'd like to enjoy my life and my activities AND avoid having personal experience with the latter.

I'm sure there are many who have grown dependent on their mask as a feeling of security (which is totally understandable given the circumstances). But you'll be dealing with unvaccinated folks without masks for a long time.
It will be quite a commitment to keep wearing a mask in fear of them.
How will you know when it's finally safe to remove it? If they say the combination of vaccinated and previously infected/recovered has us at Herd Immunity, will that do it? I sincerely would like to know, since I bet your feelings are shared by many.

 

[harllee]

This sums up exactly how I feel as well.

Same here. Plus there are other diseases that I want to avoid and I think a mask will help me do that.--I normally have several colds and other viruses each year (and occasionally flu) and I have not had those in the last 18 months. So I plan to continue to wear a mask in crowded indoors spaces indefinitely. I have found a comfortable mask that fits my face well and that I don't mind wearing (wore one recently for 12 hours with no problem).

 

[audreyh1]

I'm sure there are many who have grown dependent on their mask as a feeling of security (which is totally understandable given the circumstances). But you'll be dealing with unvaccinated folks without masks for a long time.
It will be quite a commitment to keep wearing a mask in fear of them.
How will you know when it's finally safe to remove it? If they say the combination of vaccinated and previously infected/recovered has us at Herd Immunity, will that do it? I sincerely would like to know, since I bet your feelings are shared by many.

I think local COVID spread is a major indicator. Once it becomes very low, then even most unvaccinated people are likely not carriers.

What's very low? Well a month or so ago Fauci suggested US daily new reported cases averages dropping below 10,000. We been dropping steadily and are at a 7 day average of just under 35,000 now, but still not down to the levels seen after the initial lockdown nor as part of the first surge.

It will be interesting to see if US hotspots still regularly develop and how they play out.

 

[Aerides]

I'm sure there are many who have grown dependent on their mask as a feeling of security (which is totally understandable given the circumstances). But you'll be dealing with unvaccinated folks without masks for a long time.
It will be quite a commitment to keep wearing a mask in fear of them.
How will you know when it's finally safe to remove it? If they say the combination of vaccinated and previously infected/recovered has us at Herd Immunity, will that do it? I sincerely would like to know, since I bet your feelings are shared by many.

I'm quite sure he knows all that and will decide what is right for him, and when, and is probably overly tired of feeling compelled to have to explain it to others.

For me? I'd like to see the R0 rate well under 1, for a sustained period, daily cases at a dribble, and no more variant-of-the-week popping up left right and center.

 

[Alan]

The Rubella vaccine was 95% effective when it was first rolled out and in the UK it was first given to all women aged 14 and up. The following year the number of babies born with Congenital Rubella Syndrome dropped into the 140s. Rubella is a mild disease, spread by coughs and sneezes and 50% of people who are infected don’t even know they have it. The government then offered the vaccine to everyone, did a big publicity campaign and the following year there was only one baby born with CRS.

Yesterday morning my wife and I were in town to go to a particular shop when a very old guy with a walking stick asked me for help to get to a store he was going to for a hearing test. Turns out he was 92 years old and we linked arms, held hands tightly, and it took about 10 minutes to work our way to the store (which has moved quite a way since he was last there which is why he had stranded himself so far away from his car without his walker). While waiting for someone to come to the entrance and take charge he thanked me and said that in normal times he would like to shake my hand, to which I replied that he need not worry as I am fully vaccinated as I expect he is also. He then explained that he and his wife take natural remedies and don’t believe in vaccines. I respect that and would have helped him regardless, but if he had told me ahead of time then I would have put on my mask, as my wife and I currently don’t wear masks outdoors and had not yet reached the shop we were heading for. I did immediately gel my hands at one of the dispensers on the street market stalls.

While I am confident in the efficacy of the Covid vaccine I won’t feel entirely comfortable in areas with high prevalence of the disease. Our area currently has an infection rate (people catching Covid) of 18/100,000 which is not considered high but is high enough for me to want to stay somewhat cautious despite being fully vaccinated.

 

[gayl]

I think local COVID spread is a major indicator. Once it becomes very low, then even most unvaccinated people are likely not carriers.

What's very low? Well a month or so ago Fauci suggested US daily new reported cases averages dropping below 10,000.

I think we're low. The state is 3.7 cases per 100k & 1.5% positivity rate. At any rate, we're getting back to normal

 

[audreyh1]

I think average new daily reported cases of 3 per 100,000 translates to around 10,000 cases per US population of 330M, so you are getting close.

Unfortunately we’re still way above that here, even though we are by no means a hot spot.

The overall US average is currently around 10 per 100,000. We’re still slightly above that in our county.

 

[athena53]

Rates in my area are dropping- in Johnson County, KS (middle- and upper-middle class suburb of KC), which has very detailed stats, 14-day positivity rate (new cases/new tests) is at 9.9%, down from 30% in January. Some rules have been relaxed. I went to a ceremony in the cathedral in Topeka. They'd taken a count before to make sure the attendance was low enough for social distancing. There were about 200 people but pews were blocked off- and I shared a pew with only 2 other people. Masks required. Still no communion wine. Bread dropped into your hand using tongs by clergy who had had their hands sprayed with sanitizer first. We were allowed to SING. Darn, I missed that.

This was a graduation from a small seminary; they'd kept the student community together with weekly Zoom meetings (ordinarily there was one in-person classroom weekend per session) and I knew from the OT conversations that nearly everyone had mentioned being vaccinated. High average age, too, so most of us eligible early There may have been some hugging and hand-shaking going in among those of us who knew each other!

It's hard for me to let go of masking in public places and I will continue to assume that anyone I don't know who's unmasked is unvaccinated. DS and DDIL, mid-30s, are waiting for the one vaccine they think is safe (Pfizer?) and my grandchildren are too young to be vaccinated so I still want to be careful. I'm OK with that.

 

[Chuckanut]

As we get more and more people age 12 and up vaccinated, it's important to remember that each person needs a good 5-6 weeks before they are fully protected. Assuming a state opened its vaccinations to everybody over 16 in Mid April, that means that the first week of newly vaccinated people won't be ready to go until mid May. Realistically, the end of June is probably a good guess as to when there will be a large enough group of newly vaccinated people to further back-stop us against the spread of the virus. So I am told by some experts I have found to be reasonably accurate.

I have made up my mind that I am willing to continue masking and limiting social interactions with people of unknown vaccine status through June. By then, anybody age 12 or above who wants to be vaccinated should be vaccinated. I am happy to make the sacrifice to protect the health of individuals and our society.

But, there is a point where the people who have limited their social contacts, worn masks, and had their shots will no longer be willing to continue to limit their lifestyle so as to protect those who aren't willing to protect themselves. And make no mistake about it, getting vaccinated is 90+% of what will protect us in the future. So, if somebody believes it's all a fraud, or natural remedies are good enough, or is just lazy or whatever, and chooses not to get the vaccine, good luck with that.

I look at it this way... If 20% of the drivers in my state won't buckle their seat belts, is it right and fair to tell the other 80% they can't drive faster than 40 mph on the freeway because the other 20% might be seriously injured in accidents above that speed. I think not.

Of course, I am perfectly willing to limit my lifestyle when around people who have been dealt a limited immune system or can't be vaccinated for a medical reason.

 

[MarieIG]

While that's all true, it's really only been that way country-wide for the past 2-3 weeks. So someone young who hasn't been paying attention, who was previously told to expect "late summer" might not be terribly aware.

This week, NYC started no-appointment vaccine pop ups in several larger subways, and are doing hundreds per day at each site. So, there are a lot of people, mostly younger workers, out there who will get vaccinated when it's made into a near-zero-effort situation. I imagine there are millions like that, busy younger people who aren't gonna spend days scouring vaccine finders like we all did, but will take it when they can just stop for a few extra minutes on their way to work some morning.

Anecdotal of course, I've noticed some young friends and relatives to be very hesitant. Some of them are worried it will effect fertility.

DS #6 is in basic training right now. Seems that so many of youngins' who were sent to sick bay (or what ever it is called) for minor injuries tested positive, they have been sleeping outside in their sleeping bags to stem the spread. DS will be volunteering to be vaccinated early (before it becomes mandatory, which, the "word on the street" is that it will be.)

 

[harllee]

Why is it that the Covid vaccine is not mandatory in the military now? Isn't pretty much every vaccine mandatory in the military?

 

[audreyh1]

Why is it that the Covid vaccine is not mandatory in the military now? Isn't pretty much every vaccine mandatory in the military?

It’s under emergency use authorization. Once it has regular authorization I expect it will be required.

 

[MarieIG]

Why is it that the Covid vaccine is not mandatory in the military now? Isn't pretty much every vaccine mandatory in the military?

I couldn't tell you what is and what is not. DS did say that they received vaccines when they first went in - but he didn't know what it was for, just that it hurt.


It was a very short conversation. I'm assuming it's not mandatory yet because it is still EUA.

 

[Gumby]

I recall signing a statement when I joined the Navy, acknowledging that I had read and would comport myself with the Code of Conduct. https://www.archives.gov/federal-register/codification/executive-order/10631.html It begins "I am an American, fighting in the forces that guard my country and our way of life. I am prepared to give my life in their defense..." They made us memorize the code verbatim, so we would know what we had agreed to do. All subsequent service personnel have signed on to the same code.

Once you have made the promise that you will lay down your life to protect your fellow citizens, it seems a small matter to get a vaccine - emergency use authorization or not. I am disappointed in some of those who have followed in my military footsteps.

 

[MarieIG]

I recall signing a statement when I joined the Navy, acknowledging that I had read and would comport myself with the Code of Conduct. https://www.archives.gov/federal-register/codification/executive-order/10631.html It begins "I am an American, fighting in the forces that guard my country and our way of life. I am prepared to give my life in their defense..." They made us memorize the code verbatim, so we would know what we had agreed to do. All subsequent service personnel have signed on to the same code.

Once you have made the promise that you will lay down your life to protect your fellow citizens, it seems a small matter to get a vaccine - emergency use authorization or not. I am disappointed in some of those who have followed in my military footsteps.

But not all. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_P._Murphy

I knew his father from Court when he worked for Judge Cohalan. https://murphsealmuseum.org/dt_team/daniel-j-murphy/

Not well enough to speak with him about his son, although I remember being present when he was talking to one of the other attorneys about his son. I had to turn my face away.

 

[Gumby]

Exactly. There was a man among men. One who understood the concept of duty to others above self-preservation.

 

[jim584672]

New York will follow CDC guidelines starting Wednesday. Off with my face covering, yay.

 

[USGrant1962]

Was out and about today. In Walmart about 10% were without masks. We were killing time at the outlet mall waiting for a car repair. The mass vax center there is now wide open for walk-ins and there was zero vax traffic, though it was 10:00 a.m. on a Monday. The outlet mall itself was deserted and I would guess 30% of the storefronts out of business - it was fully occupied before Covid-19. This was not our favorite shopping area, and with it 1/3 empty we won't be going back soon.

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

I recall signing a statement when I joined the Navy, acknowledging that I had read and would comport myself with the Code of Conduct. https://www.archives.gov/federal-register/codification/executive-order/10631.html It begins "I am an American, fighting in the forces that guard my country and our way of life. I am prepared to give my life in their defense..." They made us memorize the code verbatim, so we would know what we had agreed to do. All subsequent service personnel have signed on to the same code.

Once you have made the promise that you will lay down your life to protect your fellow citizens, it seems a small matter to get a vaccine - emergency use authorization or not. I am disappointed in some of those who have followed in my military footsteps.

Perhaps, but then I saw a LOT of my brothers (and sisters) in uniform get really messed up from the anthrax vaccination debacle. Let's not forget about agent orange or the burn pits in the middle east. So, I would certainly not equate vaccine hesitancy with being someone who isn't honorable in their service to the country.

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

Anecdotal of course, I've noticed some young friends and relatives to be very hesitant. Some of them are worried it will effect fertility.

DS #6 is in basic training right now. Seems that so many of youngins' who were sent to sick bay (or what ever it is called) for minor injuries tested positive, they have been sleeping outside in their sleeping bags to stem the spread. DS will be volunteering to be vaccinated early (before it becomes mandatory, which, the "word on the street" is that it will be.)

Well, with new revelations that COVID *might* also result in erectile dysfunction...that might help convince some folks to get the vaccine.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucel...tion-here-are-2-more-studies/?sh=637eb4941e75

 

[audreyh1]

Well, with new revelations that COVID *might* also result in erectile dysfunction...that might help convince some folks to get the vaccine.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucel...tion-here-are-2-more-studies/?sh=637eb4941e75

Well, it is a vascular disease as was finally realized, so not so surprising that it has an impact where blood flow matters.

And the fertility thing - that’s a common blanket anti-vax rumor mill thing as far as I can tell because it’s so effective. Usually stops young women in their tracks.

Fortunately they’ve been able to show that pregnant women are much safer with the vaccine than catching COVID while pregnant.

 

[RAE]

Perhaps, but then I saw a LOT of my brothers (and sisters) in uniform get really messed up from the anthrax vaccination debacle. Let's not forget about agent orange or the burn pits in the middle east. So, I would certainly not equate vaccine hesitancy with being someone who isn't honorable in their service to the country.

+1, I agree.

 

[jim584672]

Today is the first day NY is following the CDC policy. Almost everyone in the stores are still wearing coverings. I feel like the odd man out. Positivity is 0.9%.