Electric Car poll

[Freedom56]

We are waiting for EVs with solid state batteries that recharge under 10 minutes with a range of 600 miles. We should start seeing those battery packs by 2025. We will just add 4 more panels to our existing solar array to cover the battery charging. We have been paying zero for electricity in Southern California since October 2012 when we installed our system. We receive about $150-200 annually in credits for our overproduction.

 

[ERD50]

We are waiting for EVs with solid state batteries that recharge under 10 minutes with a range of 600 miles. We should start seeing those battery packs by 2025. ...

In just 3 years? OK, there might be a small number of EVs available with that capability by then (but I doubt it).

Have you done the math on this? How large of a battery would be needed for 600 mile range? I'd guess ~ 200 kWh (600 miles * .33 kWh/mile). To charge in 10 minutes would require a source capable of delivering 1.2 Megawatts, and a car system that can handle that current (~ 3,000 Amps at an assumed 400V). That's about 5x what the highest rated Tesla Supercharger can deliver today.

Three years strikes me as extremely optimistic. Even if it came to be, how many chargers like that will be available? Certainly not enough to count on being on your route, where and when you need it. So if that's important to you, I expect a long wait.

edit/update: So what makes you think solid state batteries will be in an EV with 600 mile range in 3 years?

These first two relevant links I found state otherwise:

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a38711469/toyota-solid-state-batteries-2025/

Toyota announced that its first vehicle to use solid-state batteries will go on sale by 2025 in an interview with Autoline.

The first Toyotas to use the new batteries will be hybrids, rather than fully electric vehicles,

Pratt outlined a couple of reasons why Toyota intends to debut solid-state batteries in hybrids. Solid-state batteries are, at the moment, more expensive to produce, he said, and since hybrids have smaller battery packs than EVs, implementing them in hybrids first will reduce the cost. The other challenge facing solid-state batteries currently is battery life, with repeated charging taking a toll on early prototype batteries.

https://www.electronicdesign.com/ma...tate-batteries-poised-to-dominate-evs-in-2022

The cells were validated by the BMW Group and Ford late last year, and both companies will get full-scale 100-Ah cells for automotive qualification testing and development of upcoming vehicles beginning in 2022.

The automakers have agreements to use the technology in upcoming electric vehicles that will arrive by 2030.

So where do you get your info from?

-ERD50

 

[Beldar]

I voted maybe, too many factors to dissuade me know.

BTW, what ever happened to the Apple Car? Did they drop that project?


_B

 

[Freedom56]

In just 3 years? OK, there might be a small number of EVs available with that capability by then (but I doubt it).

Have you done the math on this? How large of a battery would be needed for 600 mile range? I'd guess ~ 200 kWh (600 miles * .33 kWh/mile). To charge in 10 minutes would require a source capable of delivering 1.2 Megawatts, and a car system that can handle that current (~ 3,000 Amps at an assumed 400V). That's about 5x what the highest rated Tesla Supercharger can deliver today.

Three years strikes me as extremely optimistic. Even if it came to be, how many chargers like that will be available? Certainly not enough to count on being on your route, where and when you need it. So if that's important to you, I expect a long wait.

edit/update: So what makes you think solid state batteries will be in an EV with 600 mile range in 3 years?

These first two relevant links I found state otherwise:

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a38711469/toyota-solid-state-batteries-2025/



https://www.electronicdesign.com/ma...tate-batteries-poised-to-dominate-evs-in-2022



So where do you get your info from?

-ERD50

The Lucid Air Dream currently has a range of 520 miles.

https://www.cars.com/articles/electric-vehicles-with-the-longest-range-422227/

A 600 mile range is not out of the question even with current batter technology.

https://insideevs.com/news/570972/elon-musk-600mile-tesla-models/

Cars with solid state batteries are coming out this year.

https://thedriven.io/2022/01/24/first-evs-with-solid-state-batteries-to-be-demonstrated-in-china/

https://www.notebookcheck.net/CATL-...ith-a-new-ultrahigh-nickel-tech.588589.0.html

 

[Aerides]

*Mod Note*

We have an ongoing EV thread (here) as a container for the often contentious and challenging debate on the broader topic.

This Poll thread, however, should not be used as another place to argue and debate EV vs ICE on the whole. We don't need two threads for that.

When this Poll thread ceases to serve its original intent, it will be closed.

 

[explanade]

Can this poll thread be merged with the Electric Vehicle thread?

So people can keep voting?

 

[Telly]

*Mod Note*

....When this Poll thread ceases to serve its original intent, it will be closed.

Wow, I might be one of the last one's on a to-be-closed thread! I never get to be... I only see them long after they're closed! Ulp... maybe this thread will go Porky before I post!

I might see myself buying an all-electric vehicle. If I look at the far far majority of use in the last few years, an electric and charging at home would cover. But... we would want a gas vehicle for the infrequent trips. And we don't need another vehicle at this time, and our present vehicles fit our needs well now. Including my garage-queen pickup with 8' bed which costs very little to continue to own each year, and gets used when needed. We just don't drive many miles per year anymore, so gas $ are not a killer. We keep vehicles a loooong time.

If we would have moved a few years ago like I wanted to, I WOULD have had an all-electric vehicle... a golf cart to putt around a non-golf-course retirement community. However, I would still walk a lot for exercise and well-being like I do now.

However, I think the likely hood of me/us buying an all-electric vehicle is low, may run out of life before.

 

[Ian S]

I think I have at least two more vehicles in my driving life. I still want another sports car when it's time to replace my Genesis Coupe - maybe the new Nissan Z. After that, I'd probably go electric. Our second car is different. Currently, DH and I make regular 450+ mile trips to visit family in San Diego. That is not really feasible in an electric vehicle with the size of car we need and time to charge in current EVs. If and when we're not driving that trip anymore then we'd love to go all electric.

 

[MichaelB]

I’d like to buy an EV, so maybe.

 

[skyking1]

Bought a used 2011 Leaf for city driving. Next car will be another EV with more range.

We are infrequent new car buyers, so your used Leaf is probably where we would go for a town car. Current rigs are filling all the needs right now, so the TDI beetle would have to lay down on the job pretty hard to get the boot out of the fleet.

 

[NW-Bound]

I voted "maybe" because nothing is ever certain in life, except for taxes and deaths, as we all know.

Considering that we have relatively new cars with very low mileage, as well as the fact that we drive very little these days, I don't see us buying a new car at all.

+1

If you don't drive enough, there's no fuel saving to be had to offset the cost.

And then when we do drive for road trips, I want the long range and ease of refueling of my ICE car.

I guess for car enthusiasts, there may be other reasons to own an EV, but cars are just transportation to me. So, meh.

 

[Masquernom]

I would buy a Toyota Rav4 Prime today if I could. PHEV is number one on my blow the dough list! I understand they stopped taking orders for them already this year.

 

[Out of Steam]

I'm very likely to buy an EV in 2025 or 2026. Every aspect of fossil fuels is either an environmental or a geopolitical disaster, and I'd like to reduce my contribution to the mess. There will be certainly still be some early adopter issues then, but I'll be going in with my eyes open.

We just bought a new gasoline-powered car, which will help us deal with any remaining limitations of EV ownership.

 

[NW-Bound]

I'm very likely to buy an EV in 2025 or 2026. Every aspect of fossil fuels is either an environmental or a geopolitical disaster, and I'd like to reduce my contribution to the mess...

I am also sensitive to environmental issues. I like renewable energy a lot, and brag about my DIY solar+storage system often.

I read about the terrible mines and working conditions of miners in 3rd-world countries who toil to get us the metals that go into EV batteries.

I have to say that the best way for me to help is to drive as little as possible and keep my existing ICE cars as long as possible.

 

[ScoopKona]

Do hydrogen fuel cells count?

That's my next car.

 

[explanade]

Hydrogen cells are electric but the number of fuel cell refueling stations are more likely to shrink than expand.

 

[anothercog]

I'm in the yes camp. My next car will be an EV. Being able to charge for free at work makes this decision easy. We also have a PHEV right now which is great and we'll probably keep using that one for longer trips so I don't have to deal with range anxiety. I don't think I would have an EV as my only car until super chargers are as ubiquitous as gas stations.

However, I live in CA and our charging infrastructure is good and getting better.

 

[explanade]

I'm in the yes camp. My next car will be an EV. Being able to charge for free at work makes this decision easy. We also have a PHEV right now which is great and we'll probably keep using that one for longer trips so I don't have to deal with range anxiety. I don't think I would have an EV as my only car until super chargers are as ubiquitous as gas stations.

However, I live in CA and our charging infrastructure is good and getting better.

I've often wonder if those free chargers in company parking lots were at least EVSE Level 2, 240 volts and at least 30 amps.

Even then it would take overnight to charge full.

 

[ScoopKona]

Hydrogen cells are electric but the number of fuel cell refueling stations are more likely to shrink than expand.

There are only nine now. But one of them is an energy research facility 20 miles from my farm in Hawaii.

The numbers -- since I'm going to go that way at least once a month anyway (Costco is there) -- work out better than any other vehicle.

It works out to being a free car for me. A free certified pre-owned car. But still free. Everything I spend on the front end, I'll get back in free H2 fills over three years.

And after that, it's basically $50 for 300 miles of range. I can live with that.

 

[NW-Bound]

I've often wonder if those free chargers in company parking lots were at least EVSE Level 2, 240 volts and at least 30 amps.

Even then it would take overnight to charge full.

Not if you live close to work, and can charge during work hours to make up for the mileage of the round trip to/from work.

I'd rather like to see people charging their EV at work whether it's free or not. This makes the best use of the available solar power during the daylight hours.

 

[explanade]

There are only nine now. But one of them is an energy research facility 20 miles from my farm in Hawaii.

The numbers -- since I'm going to go that way at least once a month anyway (Costco is there) -- work out better than any other vehicle.

It works out to being a free car for me. A free certified pre-owned car. But still free. Everything I spend on the front end, I'll get back in free H2 fills over three years.

And after that, it's basically $50 for 300 miles of range. I can live with that.

Interesting, so Toyota Mirai?

Longest distances on the big island are like 100 miles? So no worried about range anxiety like with some people evaluating whether EVs make sense for them.

 

[Amethyst]

I have similar concerns, but about a/c, not heat.

And the darn thing needs to be able to get out of Florida - meaning all the way up the peninsula and away from coastlines - on a single charge, in case we have to evacuate for a major hurricane.
After all, I can carry a gas can that I have filled at the start of hurricane season, but don't want to depend on finding a charging station in an evacuation situation.

The third choice should have just been "maybe" or such, not mention anything about tax credits.

There needs to be a savings over the long term, including factoring in replacing those expensive batteries, while driving relatively low miles. And the heater would have to work very well and still get good range in the winter. I don't see it in my future anytime soon.

 

[anothercog]

Not if you live close to work, and can charge during work hours to make up for the mileage of the round trip to/from work.

I'd rather like to see people charging their EV at work whether it's free or not. This makes the best use of the available solar power during the daylight hours.

I do live close to work. I know they are L2 chargers and I suspect they are 40a. Kia EV6 should be able to fully charge in about 7 hours at that rate.

I know my company has solar but I think they generate most of their electricity on site with fuel cells powered by natural gas. Not exactly carbon friendly but we don’t need to worry about blackouts.

 

[ScoopKona]

Interesting, so Toyota Mirai?

Longest distances on the big island are like 100 miles? So no worried about range anxiety like with some people evaluating whether EVs make sense for them.

Precisely.

Considering my habits, if I fill semi-monthly, I'll be amazed I'm using so much gas (H2 gas).

I have just talked to the people making this happen. It looks like I'll be able to work this plan starting sometime this year.

I rarely leave the area between the Kailua Kona airport, and Captain Cook. That's a distance of only 20 miles.

Don't get me wrong. H2 fuel cell vehicles make absolutely no sense for most people. As a Bay Area/SoCal commuter car -- maybe.

But here? They're ideal! We have sky-high gasoline prices, sky-high electricity rates, and a small area. Especially for someone like me who basically lives in his idea of paradise. I hardly ever drive at all. And when I do, it's usually trips of between five and 15 miles (total, roundtrip).

 

[Out of Steam]

I read about the terrible mines and working conditions of miners in 3rd-world countries who toil to get us the metals that go into EV batteries.

I have to say that the best way for me to help is to drive as little as possible and keep my existing ICE cars as long as possible.

Unfortunately, any ability I once had to fix cars has been lost to arthritis in my hands, making very long-term car ownership impractical. I've also never had much luck with limiting my driving, and will manage to drive 16K miles this year despite being retired.

My only real solution is to minimize the economic and environmental impact of my driving.