Abandoning EVs

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FWIW, here's a Tesla battery pack, for sale on eBay. I wonder how feasible it would be to make it a bunch of smaller batteries, rather than one large one. Not to dig up the past, but I think that's what the old Baker Electric did, back in the day.

I guess if it was a good idea though, Tesla would have thought of it by now! It would probably add to production costs, too.
 

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This morning, CNBC had some analyst on and teased the segment with "meltdown."

But when they intro'd the segment, they said EV sales in the US will top 1 million units for the first time in history.

So the analyst was saying sales growth will slow down and these anecdotes about dealers cutting prices or having unsold EVs point to the need to push down prices faster.

Well overall average selling price of new cars is still around $50k. Does that mean ICE car sales have slowed down as well, unsold inventory on some dealers' lots?
 
Does that mean ICE car sales have slowed down as well, unsold inventory on some dealers' lots?

I'm thinking the answer is yes, at least on some models. For example, the small town Chevy dealer near me has over 250 new trucks sitting on their lot. I've not seen any new vehicles parked on their overflow lot for what is probably two years but that's not the case today. The stripped-down base model work truck is $40K. Anything an "all hat and no cattle" type wouldn't be ashamed to drive in public is $50K+.
 
My annual drive to Chicagoland is 11 hours drive time, it always takes us no less than 12 hours with stops for food, gas and restrooms. With a Tesla, we would lose 2 hours stopping to charge. Chargers are almost always near facilities so we’d just eat and use restrooms while charging. So a 12 hour ICE trip becomes a 13 hour Tesla EV trip. I can live with that for the huge annual fuel savings charging at home every day I’m not doing long trips.

It’s tiresome how Tesla gets painted with the same charging infrastructure broad brush when they are two different worlds.


I've mentioned elsewhere - probably a thread already "Porked" - that my Son took his Tesla Mod 3 on a 2 day trip and it took him 3 days. He was pulling a "sleeper" trailer, just big enough to, well, sleep in it. The extra drag meant more stops. He had relatively good luck finding charging stations that were actually functioning, but sometimes he had to find a regular parking stall to leave his trailer while he went to a charging stall. No way to fit the trailer without parking across 3 charging stalls. That's okay if the charging "park" is near empty, but not if chargers are scarce. He hit about 50:50 on that score, IIRC. Also, IIRC, the trailer/higher road speeds, cost him half his usual electrons/mile average.

Full disclosure. He has now driven the car well over 70K and he loves it. He normally charges at home now, though when he lived on Big Island, he often had to pay premium prices for "fast charge" at OTHER than Tesla stations. Not sure they even had them on BI.

So, it's like most cars. You make compromises and you find ways to make your vehicles w*rk for you. I've mentioned before that IF I had access to charging, I would look for a Leaf or similar "small battery" used car. It would be perfect for Oahu, though not for where I stay on the mainland. BUT access to charging would be key - and so far, that is still problematic if you don't own a house/garage here. YMMV
 
Sounds like the chicken or the egg dilemma....no EV demand wo charging stations, no charging stations wo EV demand
 
Eh, it could be worse. in the old days, they had to swap out the stagecoach horses every 10-20 miles or so, and you were lucky to get 60-70 miles per day! :p
 
Eh, it could be worse. in the old days, they had to swap out the stagecoach horses every 10-20 miles or so, and you were lucky to get 60-70 miles per day! :p

Yeah, they would give an arm and a leg for an ICE vehicle that would propel them them 500 miles down the road. No preplanning and maybe a five minute fuel stop. :D
 
Swiss Re, a large and important reinsurance company, just published a paper documenting that Waymo autonomous vehicles are far safer than human driven ones. The paper is here.

Over 3.8 million miles there were no body injury claims, and 95% fewer property claims compared with human driven vehicles.

Autonomous is not synonymous with EV but is strongly associated. If this were to translate to bottom line savings for car owners I would expect a substantial boost in interest.
 
Swiss Re, a large and important reinsurance company, just published a paper documenting that Waymo autonomous vehicles are far safer than human driven ones.

Yes, but that applies to two exceptionally well mapped cities (Phoenix and San Francisco), so I treat it as just a data point and not generally applicable IMO.
 
I always thought that hybrid trucks were a good idea, and surprised they didn't catch on more. A full-sized truck, especially, has a lot more space to pack the extra batteries, motors, and whatever else you need in a hybrid, compared to a compact car, so it seems to me it should actually be easier to make a hybrid truck than a hybrid car.

You actually save more fuel too, if you target your efforts at the guzzlers. For instance, if you take a vehicle that gets 15 mpg, and boost it to 20, you're saving as much as if you took a vehicle that gets 20, and boosted it to 30. A 30 mpg vehicle would have to get a serious bump to around 56 mpg, to again see the same savings. And something that gets 56 mpg would have to be replaced by a pure electric.

Most heavier-duty trucks though, like 3/4 ton and up, are Diesels, I believe, so they're already probably seeing a significant fuel savings compared to a gasoline-powered engine.

I wonder, if a Diesel-electric hybrid would be viable, in a bigger truck, especially tractor trailers. I know they've pretty much always done it that way with railroad locomotives, albeit for a different reason. It was too difficult to design them, to get engine power to the wheels, because the transmission would have been overly complex, so they simply have Diesel engines that power electric motors, at the wheels, and eliminate the need for a transmission.

Makes sense, hybrid buses have been around for years.
 
Yeah, they would give an arm and a leg for an ICE vehicle that would propel them them 500 miles down the road. No preplanning and maybe a five minute fuel stop. :D

I'd imagine the early days of ICE travel were pretty harrowing, as well. I can remember my Grandmom telling of how, as a kid, they'd come from her home in Harrisburg PA, to visit her relatives in Glenn Dale, MD, and it was an all day trip. This was like back in the 1930s. I don't know what the fuel economy/range was of your typical 30s car, but in those pre-interstate days, the roads between here and there would hit every single town along the way. And I think, depending on the way you went, you either went through downtown Frederick, or downtown Baltimore, so that no doubt took awhile. I'd imagine the grades going up and down the mountains were a lot more steep and winding, as well. I'd imagine gas stations weren't as common as they are today, either.

These days, I can make that same trip in under two hours, if traffic cooperates.

One thing I miss with gasoline cars, is that most of them don't really have big gas tanks anymore. My first car was a 1980 Malibu, and it had an 18 gallon tank. My most recent car, a 2023 Charger, has a whopping 18.5 gallon tank. Some of those bigger cars had like a 25-26 gallon tank, though. My Grandmom's '85 LeSabre could get 25 mpg on a highway run, with ease, so in theory, you could get over 600 miles out of it! But I'm guessing most modern cars just don't have that much room underneath to put a fuel tank. Plus these days it's usually under the back seat, rather than strapped under the trunk, and they get the spare tire under the trunk floor, where the tank used to be. Modern cars don't have all that rear overhang like they used to, so there's just less space under there. Plus, with crash safety standards, I don't think they can even just strap a tank under the trunk, like they used to.

One of my friends has a Nissan Kicks, a tiny crossover that I think gets 30+ mpg. But, it doesn't even have a 10 gallon tank. So realistically, he's getting about the same range as I did, as a teenager in the 80's, with that old Malibu.
 
Yes, but that applies to two exceptionally well mapped cities (Phoenix and San Francisco), so I treat it as just a data point and not generally applicable IMO.

I agree, it is just one more data point. What’s significant for me is the study was carried out by a reinsurance company, which has no direct economic interest in the outcome of the EV vs ICE discussion, and as an insurance company are strongly data driven, so they’re also not looking to game the numbers to drive a certain POV. Still a long road ahead.

Just out of curiosity, what prevents an ICE from considering autonomous options?
 
SwissRE is an interesting insurance company. They keep trying to educate the medical community about diabetes and reducing carb intake. They do long term projections of diabetes and impacts on medical costs.
 
One thing I miss with gasoline cars, is that most of them don't really have big gas tanks anymore. My first car was a 1980 Malibu, and it had an 18 gallon tank. My most recent car, a 2023 Charger, has a whopping 18.5 gallon tank. Some of those bigger cars had like a 25-26 gallon tank, though. My Grandmom's '85 LeSabre could get 25 mpg on a highway run, with ease, so in theory, you could get over 600 miles out of it!

Made me look...

Our Highlander hybrid has a 17.1 gallon tank and averages 35 mpg, which results in a (theoretical) range of 598 miles on a fill-up. Not that I ever have nor ever will test the accuracy of that calculation. :)

Edit: The longest range vehicle I've ever owned was our 40 ft diesel pusher motorhome. It only averaged 8 mpg but it had a 150 gallon tank!
 
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^^35 mpg on a Highlander is impressive. My F-150 got 21.3mpg on our recent road trip. Better with a tail wind. Worse in a head wind.
 
I recently heard a statistic that I share with my EV friends.
92% of all EVs ever built are still on the road. The other 8% made it home. :)
 
Keep in mind, the agricultural subsidy for ethanol has reduced the BTU value of the fuel and effectively reduced everyone's range for a tank. E5 is barely noticeable, E10 is definitely easy to see without a calculator. E15 is a range limiter. Blend ratios hurt the range
 
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/gold-goats-n-guns-podcast/id1435023391?i=1000633606739

File this in the same category as teaching to the test. What happens when profit motives collide with the CAFE algorithm preferences.

This was an eye opener for me. I would love to have cheap entry level basic car, and I prefer small sedans. The table is tilted against me.

Also explains why the excessively large trucks are promoted so heavily. Made me want to go to Mexico and get a cheap V8
 
Eight years ago, my neighbor was an early adopter of an electric lawnmower. It was under powered, small blade sized, and needed 3 charges just to complete a mow of his yard. I stuck with my gas mower and all the downsides, like tearing my arm off the darn chord, as well as maintenance and cleaning to ensure I could get it to start. Fast forward to six months ago and I was able to try out another neighbor’s electric dewalt mower. It had the same blade size as my gas mower, easily mowed my full lawn with minimal battery depletion, and had so much power, it was even self propelled for a price slightly higher than my current gas mower. It was a no brainer to switch. No more pulling that chord for me. When EVs get like that I’ll consider switching over. Until then, my next car will be an ICE.

So, you chose not to get pushbutton start on your ICE mower?
Why?
 
Swiss Re, a large and important reinsurance company, just published a paper documenting that Waymo autonomous vehicles are far safer than human driven ones. The paper is here.

Over 3.8 million miles there were no body injury claims, and 95% fewer property claims compared with human driven vehicles.

Autonomous is not synonymous with EV but is strongly associated. If this were to translate to bottom line savings for car owners I would expect a substantial boost in interest.


Did not read article but agree with you... for the vast majority of trips a self driving EV that can charge itself would be ideal... it does not address the cross country trips but that can be filled with a rental...


It also would give more independence to the old who cannot drive anymore... hope it comes before I pass...
 
I'd imagine the early days of ICE travel were pretty harrowing, as well. I can remember my Grandmom telling of how, as a kid, they'd come from her home in Harrisburg PA, to visit her relatives in Glenn Dale, MD, and it was an all day trip. This was like back in the 1930s. I don't know what the fuel economy/range was of your typical 30s car, but in those pre-interstate days, the roads between here and there would hit every single town along the way. And I think, depending on the way you went, you either went through downtown Frederick, or downtown Baltimore, so that no doubt took awhile. I'd imagine the grades going up and down the mountains were a lot more steep and winding, as well. I'd imagine gas stations weren't as common as they are today, either.

These days, I can make that same trip in under two hours, if traffic cooperates.

One thing I miss with gasoline cars, is that most of them don't really have big gas tanks anymore. My first car was a 1980 Malibu, and it had an 18 gallon tank. My most recent car, a 2023 Charger, has a whopping 18.5 gallon tank. Some of those bigger cars had like a 25-26 gallon tank, though. My Grandmom's '85 LeSabre could get 25 mpg on a highway run, with ease, so in theory, you could get over 600 miles out of it! But I'm guessing most modern cars just don't have that much room underneath to put a fuel tank. Plus these days it's usually under the back seat, rather than strapped under the trunk, and they get the spare tire under the trunk floor, where the tank used to be. Modern cars don't have all that rear overhang like they used to, so there's just less space under there. Plus, with crash safety standards, I don't think they can even just strap a tank under the trunk, like they used to.

One of my friends has a Nissan Kicks, a tiny crossover that I think gets 30+ mpg. But, it doesn't even have a 10 gallon tank. So realistically, he's getting about the same range as I did, as a teenager in the 80's, with that old Malibu.

My 2016 F-150 has a 36 gallon tank which gives me 700+ miles to deal with. I can get from Boston to Ohio for my next fill-up without dealing with Pennsylvania's high gas tax.
Fortunately, I can afford gas at $3 per gallon...
 
My 2016 F-150 has a 36 gallon tank which gives me 700+ miles to deal with. I can get from Boston to Ohio for my next fill-up without dealing with Pennsylvania's high gas tax.
Fortunately, I can afford gas at $3 per gallon...

Plus you could pull a 4000 pound trailer and still probably get 300 mile range with that, which is impossible on any EV except the Tesla Semi truck
 
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