I got a new prospective on the antiwork movement

I am not sure the "anti-work" is no work. I think, and see from younger folks I am around, that millennial and younger are wanting better work/life balance. And willing to adjust budgets for that. Good for them!
My daughter has several friends who have one working partner, and one SAHparent, and the working partner is basic entry level or a bit more in job category. They make it work because they want too, and thats what they value. Sure, they are not buying houses and new cars. But they are happy and appear to enjoy life.

And, right now, as mentioned previously, jobs are plentiful, workers seem scarce. So the workers can pick and choose, stay or go.
 
Except for a minor bump in the 1980s, the US birth rate has been on the decline since the Baby Boom. The country has also throttled down legal immigration. Hence, there are fewer younger people willing to take on the grunt work that moves the country.

Meanwhile, with life expectancy increasing, there are more old folks who can gripe about it.

I used to see quite a few older guys bagging groceries at the local supermarket. They've pretty much disappeared. Hopefully they haven't moved on to that big checkout lane in the sky.
 
I'll toss this out....

If most jobs offered at least four weeks of vacation a year, people might be encouraged people to stay in a job, work hard during their 40 hours a week, and then enjoy the other parts of their life.

The guy in the video is just venting, IMO.
 
Qs Laptop said:
Here in Minnesota the unemployment rate is 1.8%, the lowest of any state ever recorded, and there are 2.7 open jobs for every one available worker. Workers can literally pick and choose their job.
Click to expand...

Forgot to mention my wife just got a new job. She applied to about a dozen jobs and had interviews with four companies. This took a month, maybe 5 weeks.

She left her long time employer in the consumer sector and got a job as a project manager with an aerospace company. She's getting paid $21k more per year, much better benefits, more vacation, plus she can work at home 3 days a week.

Looks like my timetable for retiring has just moved up!
 
I am reminded of a quote by Jerry Rice, Hall of Fame wide receiver for the San Francisco 49ers - "Today, I will do today the things that others won't, so tomorrow I will do what others can't".

I never had a job that required as few as 40 hours a week. My law firm work required about double that, and while we had 4 weeks of vacation per year, you were a fool if you actually took it. And the Navy was 24/7 for months at a time. However, I had no path to go to college except by joining the Navy and giving them 5 years of my life. Afterwards, when I was an engineer at the commercial nuclear plant and decided to go to law school, I did what was required to be able to pay for it without loans. Fortunately for me, it was possible because we were in a refueling outage, but I worked 12 hours every day for 176 of the first 181 days of 1989 (i.e. 5 days off in 6 months). I got time and a half for every hour over 8 and all day on Saturdays, double time on Sundays. And that's what paid for law school.

So, I hear young people when they complain about work and want to have more free time for other things in their lives. I understand the desire; who wouldn't want more work/life balance? But they should be aware that it's a real choice with real consequences. If you want lasting and substantial financial success, you need to be prepared to work long and hard, and to endure things that others won't.

In the end, if you want what I have, you don't have to be a genius, just indefatigable.
 
Chuckanut said:
I'll toss this out....
The guy in the video is just venting, IMO.
Click to expand...

I only watched the first 6 1/2 minutes, and got that impression too. He told the story of the welder who was paid $20/hour, and realized that his company was charging $200 for his labor - but herein lies the problem. We all have our own ideas of what is going on in the world, and the world of work. Then we pick stories to fit our narrative. Data and statistics don't tell the whole story either, but they help us get closer to the reality, if interpreted objectively.

Folk in physically taxing jobs wear their bodies out faster than those who sit at desks. I think that goes without saying. It has always been the case. Lawyers, the good ones at least, often work well into their senior years. They enjoy their work, it's well paid, and it doesn't tax the body at all. I am not arguing for the supposed virtue of one type of work over another, but merely stating rather obvious facts.

As for the business of young 'uns quitting jobs at the drop of a hat, and moving immediately to other jobs, heck if I know anything about this. The world of work is a distant memory for me!
 
I found out about the anti work Reddit group I think from someone here and started following it.
Some of it is just your basic complaining about the boss, some seems to legitimate complaints, and others I wonder- is this even a real situation?
Parts of it are just down right hilarious.

This drawing boundaries around work demands on employee time started years ago from my perspective.

As a boomer raised by parents who grew up in the depression and WWII I had the work ethic that you get up and go to work. If you aren’t lying in bed sick you go to work. It’s just what I did.
My much younger sister falls into Gen X and she would actually call in sick when she wasn’t sick! [emoji33]
The horror.

It wasn’t just her either. We had multiple trainings back in the very early 00’s about the different generations in the workplace and their different expectations.

My perspective was it was really more dependent on the individual and how the employer treated the employees.

I will admit that I like seeing young people push the status quo envelope. I think it’s good for us to look at our employment practices and see if they can be improved.

But I’m sure glad I’m not dealing with it anymore. [emoji2]
 
youbet said:
Turnover isn't a major part of today's labor problems. People choosing not to work (either for themselves or for an employer) is. When people make no or little effort to support themselves, the pot of stew we should all be contributing to is smaller yet everyone still wants to dish themselves out a heaping bowl.

I think the seed of the problem began with COVID and the relief efforts made by our gov't. Many folks found themselves in a position where unemployment benefits + relief packages paid more than returning to work. That can be a hard thing to turn around.
Click to expand...


It does seem like the current "Great Resignation" and labor shortage started about the time that the enhanced COVID unemployment benefits were in full swing. But, what's interesting and puzzling is that the labor shortage has persisted, and even gotten more profound, long after all those programs ended. Surely, by now (IMHO, at least) most people would need to work again purely for financial reasons if nothing else. Given everything we heard about how a $500 auto repair bill would be a financial crisis for the majority of Americans in pre-COVID days, I just don't see how people can still afford the luxury of not working or being so incredibly picky and choosy about their employment, years after the last COVID-related assistance checks were sent out.
 
I believe these days, when staring out in the work force, it take longer to earn enough to be completely on your own than it did in the past. Especially if you go into the labor market unskilled But there is less patience (which I can understand).

My starting Megacorp salary was $16,500 at a time when a nice one bedroom apartment in that state was around $350 a month. Even when DW married me and moved in, she first found an entry job (secretary) while applying for ones to match her skills and she still earned $12,000 in the early 80s, which still would have been enough to live on her own. We could get a nice 2 bedroom condo for $50-$60K, and it took us less than a year to save for the down payment.


These days... from anecdotal evidence looking at our youngest son and his friends (all now in mid to late 20s), out of a dozen of them just he and one other are living in an apartment on their own, without roommates. Half are still living at home. All have either college degrees or "practical" skills (e.g. electrician). But the relative cost of housing - rental or ownership - is much larger these days, and takes longer... and I submit people do not have the same level of patience (I will avoid the tangent on how needing patience is seen as "unfair").


Also, one interesting comment DS has told us - some of his friends ask "why are you living in an apartment? your parents home is nicer, and you wouldn't have to pay rent!"

There are also a lot more options to what to spend your money on these days. Consider what entertain options there were in the late 70's through late 80s (I just pick those as my 20's years). Movies and ballgames were inexpensive (and let you bring in your own food/snacks :D). Cable was also relatively inexpensive. A VHS player was considered expensive (but you could rent them along with movies if needed). In some sense, it was easier to save as there were fewer entertainment options.

I agree with the Jerry Rice quote in Gumby's post above. We more looked at it as "I'm working hard today because it will pay off in the future". Unfortunately, the payoff is longer, so that is not a view that is as prevalent these day (though it is still there to some degree). Many are looking for that immediate payoff. And I never thought I would see the day were, in some vocal quarters, telling someone to "work hard" is considered racist.
 
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Qs Laptop said:
Forgot to mention my wife just got a new job. She applied to about a dozen jobs and had interviews with four companies. This took a month, maybe 5 weeks.

She left her long time employer in the consumer sector and got a job as a project manager with an aerospace company. She's getting paid $21k more per year, much better benefits, more vacation, plus she can work at home 3 days a week.

Looks like my timetable for retiring has just moved up!
Click to expand...

Just think, your timetable for retiring can be moved up sooner if you can have her get a second job! :LOL:
 
My newly graduated son started a new job at Megacorp. He works 9 days at 9 hours and gets every other Friday off. I would have loved that. Once a month he may have to work the Friday that he was supposed to get off. I figured "well, I'm sure that's just the way it is and and you'll lose that day off". He said "no, I get to take off an extra day if that happens". I almost fell to the floor. NEVER in my 30+ years of Megacorp was there any consideration given if I had to work extra hours. It was required/demanded. If I worked until midnight, I was still expected to be at work the next morning at 8:00.

Throughout his interview process, work/life balance was brought up at all of the companies he interviewed. I'm glad times are changing.
 
PatrickA5 said:
My newly graduated son started a new job at Megacorp. He works 9 days at 9 hours and gets every other Friday off. I would have loved that.
...
Click to expand...

The 9/80 work schedule has been around for a long time. My megacorp started it about 25 years ago. I understand it began in California as a response to Clean Air Act non-attainment. It reduces commuting car trips by 10% in smogfests like LA.
 
Hard work doesn't pay sh!t and never has. Ever see a sheetrocker driving a new caddy?
 
Eh, worked my butt off, yes for high pay but also very high stress. No one at my level complained about the work.
Opportunities are not necessarily there for everyone, but are there for more folks than we think.
My best friend used to say I wish I made your money (his best guess was close), but truly worked about 20 hours a week with a little stress.........

One son of mine just will not get into any career, so will live the life that goes with that decision. The other son is in Vet school.
 
I got about halfway thru the video. He started out like he didn't understand the younger generation's ideas about work, but quickly switched to questioning his own past choices. I don't understand the guys who quit work because they don't get paid enough, or feel like they should have more of the boss's money. So they don't have any money. It just doesn't make sense to me.

Yes, I'm one of those who worked to raise a family. I called it the male curse. Nothing wrong with that IMO. If they don't want to work, I get it. Precious few of us actually did. If they quit even an average paying job, how will they get the things they need/want? I really don't understand it.
 
"Hard work doesn't pay sh!t and never has. Ever see a sheetrocker driving a new caddy?"

Yes I have but mostly they drive new trucks. They just don't drive them to work to get them full of sheetrock mud.
 
folivier said:
"Hard work doesn't pay sh!t and never has. Ever see a sheetrocker driving a new caddy?" ...
Click to expand...
Actually we are moving into a new age where those who are skilled and willing to work with their hands will be making top dollar.

One reason for this is the current push for kids to go to college instead of vocational schools because college graduates make more money. The question I have not seen answered is why, just because we double the number of college graduates, we would expect the number of higher paying jobs to also double. Creating college graduates does not automatically create jobs.
 
USGrant1962 said:
The 9/80 work schedule has been around for a long time. My megacorp started it about 25 years ago. I understand it began in California as a response to Clean Air Act non-attainment. It reduces commuting car trips by 10% in smogfests like LA.
Click to expand...

It never made it to my neck of the woods by the time I retired (2008).

I ended up going part time (Fridays off) around 2004. As far as I know, I was the only male to ever request part time work in my office.
 
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