Why are Some (Most?) Dentists Con Artists?

[PatrickA5]

I'm going to venture a guess that the chain your daughter went to had a name that rhymed with "aspen". No one should ever use that group. They are notorious for doing work that is unnecessary. Not sure why there aren't class action suits against them left and right. Maybe there are but being in the "medical" field it makes it difficult to prove.

I don't remember if it was that one or the one with a train out in front. I'll have to ask her.

 

[Qs Laptop]

I went to a family reunion party on my wife's side of the family. I met a woman a few years younger than me that is a dental hygienist. We got to talking and I told her my story (see post #1 in this thread.)

All of the things raised in this thread were confirmed, namely, there are tons of con artist dentists out there, she said she's worked for two practices that routinely did unneeded work. She was expected to sell things to patients. After working at two places like this in the past 15 years she left both places.

She confirmed that franchise chains are notorious for his and named Aspen as the worst. She confirmed that some dentists do procedures to buy things like boats or to pay country club dues. She confirmed that some dentists do work in order to pay for new equipment. On and on it went. Finally, she said she now works at Park Dental and said for the most part the people there are ethical. I was elated as my new dentist is in Park Dental, though she didn't know him.

 

[Turbo29]

When I went to my dentist a year ago there was a whole new staff working there and they said they could not do my scheduled cleaning as I needed a deep cleaning. When I pointed out that at my last visit 6mos earlier everything had been fine they just shrugged and again refused to do my regular cleaning.

Later I spoke with my sister, who is a dental hygienist in another city and said, "I think they lost business during covid and were upselling the cleanings to make more money." Without hesitation she replied, "That's probably exactly what they were doing."

At the same visit, the dentist came and looked at my teeth after the hygienist was done and listed a bunch of things that should be done in the future. I declined. At my next visit, a different dentist looked at my mouth and said that everything was fine.

I don't trust any of these so-called "professionals" further than I could throw them.


Here's a nice 15 min Youtube:

 

[Turbo29]

Hey, easy on the Vets. We owned a nice large practice which we sold to a major corp a few years back.

Most veterinarians go into the field because they genuinely like animals. Most dentists go into the field because they genuinely like money.

 

[athena53]

Here's a nice 15 min Youtube:

Wow- that was an eye-opener. I hope my dentist never sells out.

 

[Time2]

I've had the same dentist for over 30 years. She has had the same group of four dental assistants for at least 25 years. Rarely does she think I need anything done. She's been checking in on the same "spots" for many years and continues the "wait and see" approach. My only concern is they will all retire at once - probably in the next 5 years.

My daughter, who went to the same dentist the first 25 years of her life, recently had to change dentists due to insurance problems. She went to the closest "chain" dentist to her house. Yup, first visit was told she had 8 cavities and more than $3K worth of work. She declined. She went to a different dentist a year later and was told she didn't have any cavities. A miracle must have happened!

Maybe the key to this is to ask for an itemized estimate. If they won't give it, I would have to ask, is that because the work your saying you have to do is questionable at best or unneeded at worst. Or, talk into your phone saying. I'd like to record that, could you repeat what you want to do.
My son's first dental appointment with a new dentist when he went off to college, he was told he had 3 cavities that needed filling. I had him see his old dentist when he was on break and no cavities. He's is now 28 and they still have not been filled and he has been to a dentist at least 15 times since then.

 

[Texas Proud]

One of the things that I like about our dentist is that they will show you the xrays and explain what is there...




My last visit (recently) had a cavity that was showing on a back tooth... he said it was big... so drilled and said it made it to the root and I would need a root canal... had to go to a specialist for that...


Well, the cause was food wedging between my teeth... I asked about the other tooth and he said he was surprised there was very little decay and he would take care of that for free...


One thing is I stay away from those large dental groups as they are formed to upsell... a hygienist that worked at one for a short time said they were not given enough time to actually clean the teeth... they needed through put...

 

[Rianne]

I have 11 crowns. All those crowns were done with the megacorp dental insurance (the best). Funny, that's the first thing they ask, do you have dental insurance? Did I need any of those crowns? I admit I was suckered into the high-tech, well-manicured office, and office building. The smooth-talking confident dentist was sure I needed those crowns.

Nothing I can do about that now. Let it be a warning for anyone reading this thread.

 

[athena53]

I have 11 crowns. All those crowns were done with the megacorp dental insurance (the best). Funny, that's the first thing they ask, do you have dental insurance?

Weren't you still left with a giant out-of-pocket payment? My employer dental plan paid a max of $2,000/year for ALL work and the oral surgeon told me that was a generous plan. That wouldn't go far for 11 crowns.

 

[Rianne]

Weren't you still left with a giant out-of-pocket payment? My employer dental plan paid a max of $2,000/year for ALL work and the oral surgeon told me that was a generous plan. That wouldn't go far for 11 crowns.

The 11 crowns were done gradually over 53 years. One dentist talked me into 2 crowns at once. I don't recall the exact OOP. The thought back then was this crown will save your tooth. It will last many years. It did not feel like the OOP was that much considering the benefit the dentists sold.

I remember discussions like, this tooth has a small crack and gets worse over time leading to a root canal if you don't get a crown. Or the space between these teeth is too tight. Can't get between to clean well enough. It was really bad and our dental insurance was good. I guess "good" is relative. The only crown that seems truly legitimate is the one where I broke my tooth when I was 12. I still have that crown 53 years later.

 

[athena53]

The 11 crowns were done gradually over 53 years.

Ah, that makes more sense! I have 7 implants but they were done over 15 years. One was a case where I was the one who said, "I don't want to mess with treatments that might or might not work- gimme an implant". The oral surgeon later told me it was a crack in the root of the tooth- the dentist had proposed drilling down to see if he could fix what was wrong and that would have been futile, so I made the right decision.

 

[dixonge]

I could write a small book about the bad dentists I have had the misfortune of meeting. And this is on both sides of the border! Back in the fall of 2021 my most recent crown cracked in half while chewing on a Triscuit. In December we made the pilgrimage to 'Molar City' (Los Algodones) just across from Yuma, AZ. It's the #1 tourist attraction for aging RV'ers evidently. So many friends raved about the excellent work and low prices.

We picked a clinic that had the best reviews and ratings (as far as one can ever tell) and supposedly had a CEREC machine (3D milling device). They did full x-rays and camera scans. Then they hit us with their estimates and the hardest sales pitch I've ever received. They pissed me off so much I decided that even if I *did* need $17,000 worth of dental work, I would rather pay someone else to do it. On top of that, they said my wife also needed the same! With a small discount it would only set us back $30,000 total, as long as we paid up front. As in *today*. We walked away.

After further discussions with friends we determined that costs in Los Algodones were *much* higher than other places we had lived in Mexico. So that started a process where we ended up selling our car and RV and moving back to Mexico to the Lake Chapala area.

Starting in April I began a series of visits to a nearby dentist who is the most-often reommended one in the area. He also has a reputation for being more expensive, although said to be worth it. I have had multiple procedures over the last four months, and the wife started her treatment as well. Over eleven visits we have paid less than $1000 US. I have had multiple cavities filled (two I knew about, the rest were discovered). While she was at it the dentist filled in large portions of my upper front teeth that had eroded due to bite issues, repairing chips along the way. A lower tooth had a previous filling removed and repaired as it was failing. Chips repaired there as well. My smile has never looked this good in a couple of decades!

On top of all that, I have had extreme dental anxiety and sensitivity for forever. Back in the states I used to have a perio who would see me walk in and immediately have an assistant go grab the nitrous. Otherwise I would be as stiff as a plank. This has continued in Mexico, but without the NO2 as it is rarely available here. My new dentist has amazing anesthesia technique and I rarely feel the needle and never have to get extra shots - it's been amazing! On top of all that I decided to get 100% off of caffeine and that seems to help. Also, pro tip - take 800mg of ibuprofen an hour before your appointment. Inflammation never gets started! No pain.

Any way, I'll spare you my dental-chain-that-utilizes-dental-students-horror-stories as I've gone on long enough...

 

[garyt]

Here's my story. Had been going to this dentist for at least a couple years. One day I go in and the hygienist (his daughter) says " you're a tooth grinder and need a night guard). But I wasn't for the last 2-3 years? Then the dentist comes in and of course " Oh yes, you need a night guard" a definite double team. Tried to sell me one for $200 or so, ( this was 40 years ago or so).
I'm sure what happened was a " night guard" salesman had stopped in the office and showed him how much he could make prescribing those things. I bet everybody who came in after that was a night grinder. 40 years later and not a single dentist has told me I'm a night grinder

 

[JoeWras]

Then they hit us with their estimates and the hardest sales pitch I've ever received. They pissed me off so much I decided that even if I *did* need $17,000 worth of dental work, I would rather pay someone else to do it. On top of that, they said my wife also needed the same! With a small discount it would only set us back $30,000 total, as long as we paid up front. As in *today*. We walked away.

Supply and demand. The demand for over-the-border dental is up. People hear about it and try. This clinic must see the people pouring over the border to them and figure, why not raise the price.

Before you know it, the price isn't the great discount it was 15 years ago, instead, it is just a few percent off a USA based practice.

 

[PatrickA5]

I forgot about my dad's last dental visit. His long-time dentist talked him into a bridge for his upper front teeth. Dad said he was fine with what he had left, but the nice dentist thought he would enjoy having new teeth and it would make his smile nicer. So, $7,000 later he had new teeth. Oh, I should mention he was 97. He only lived another 5 weeks.

I did get a nice sympathy card from the dentist.

 

[CardsFan]

Well, after reading all these I will add mine.

Our dentist, who we liked, retired. The two that bought him out were OK. Then covid hit. They closed that office and we had to go to the one 10 miles away. After a cleaning he recommended about $5000 worth of work to fix one of my existing bridges, and the others needed attention too, due to some sensitivity.

I was not inclined to do that kind of work at the time, nor did I want to drive that far, passing at least 20 dental offices on the way.

Got a recommendation from a friend. Go in for the full first visit. Agree to the $289/yr plan with 2 cleanings and x-rays (plus a discount). All looks OK, except one wisdom tooth has a bad cavity below the gum line (this WAS bothering me, and was next to the existing bridge). He also recommended a superficial filling of an abrasion (and yes, I had noticed it myself).

So another $500 for the filling and extraction and a recommendation to use Sensodyne. I am pain free and saved $4,000.

 

[mn54]

Any way, I'll spare you my dental-chain-that-utilizes-dental-students-horror-stories as I've gone on long enough...

this would be illegal anywhere in the U.S. dental students can only do dental work at the dental school or community clinic supervised by a faculty dentist. a private dental chain could not use dental students.

 

[SunnyOne]

You should get your teeth, checked and overhauled if needed in PV. I hear their care is excellent and very affordable.

PV = ?

 

[RetMD21]

Puerto Vallarta?

 

[dixonge]

Any way, I'll spare you my dental-chain-that-utilizes-dental-students-horror-stories as I've gone on long enough...

this would be illegal anywhere in the U.S. dental students can only do dental work at the dental school or community clinic supervised by a faculty dentist. a private dental chain could not use dental students.

I should have said 'recent graduates doing their internship' or whatever that equivalent is. Large open room, multiple chairs, instructor/mentor floating around and answering questions.

 

[FloridaJim57]

About six years ago I had a dental implant done in my front lower jaw. It was odd as I had two baby teeth there and so when the dentist pulled them she only replaced it with one implant due to space limits. Implants were not covered by my dental plan but the implant worked fine. No pain, I can chew anything, feels like my real tooth. Fast forward to a few months ago. A new dentist looks at my X-rays and told me the implant was done very poorly "and is not sustainable nor solid". She suggest removing it and going through the whole process again. I went to a very experienced periodontist for a second opinion. He was an old twenty year military guy. Very no nonsense but very honest. He had the x-ray of the implant in front of him. He said to me "well, why are you here?". I said "well it is about my implant". He said "does it hurt? can you eat solid food, any problems?" I said no to all of them. He put his fingers in my mouth and pulled on the implant and said "well, it is in very solidly". I told him my dentist thought it was a problem. He said "there is nothing wrong with that implant, it will last as long as you live. Forget about it." I did.

 

[athena53]

A new dentist looks at my X-rays and told me the implant was done very poorly "and is not sustainable nor solid". She suggests removing it and going through the whole process again.

Wow- that's awful. I can't imagine the possible complications of having an implant removed (leaving a bigger hole in the jaw) and installing a new one. I hope she's no longer practicing- she doesn't deserve to be.

 

[brett]

Dental costs are high.

But so are office expenses and staff expenses. And insurance. And the occasional update course.

Would I consider going to Mexico or Turkey for dental work. No. I pay the freight. If there is a problem I want to go back to the dental office that did the work.

Happy with my dentist. Yes, the charge seems high.

But if my teeth are not happy I am in a lot of distress. So I pay the fee. I have been fortunate enough to call a dentist on Friday night, have him open up and do some work on a Saturday morning, because I was flying off on a week long business trip later that day.

It sure to longer with no dental assistant to help him or to find what was required!

 

[Music Lover]

Dental costs are high.

But so are office expenses and staff expenses. And insurance. And the occasional update course.

Would I consider going to Mexico or Turkey for dental work. No. I pay the freight. If there is a problem I want to go back to the dental office that did the work.

Happy with my dentist. Yes, the charge seems high.

But if my teeth are not happy I am in a lot of distress. So I pay the fee. I have been fortunate enough to call a dentist on Friday night, have him open up and do some work on a Saturday morning, because I was flying off on a week long business trip later that day.

It sure to longer with no dental assistant to help him or to find what was required!

Office costs and expenses apply to almost all businesses. But dentists are one of the very few professions that can get away with charging $2000 for 2 or 3 hours of work. As I stated several pages earlier...people don't become dentists because they like teeth. They choose the profession because the fee scale they have created that they all follow guarantees massive earnings.

By the way, working on a Saturday isn't unheard of in almost any profession.

 

[COcheesehead]

Office costs and expenses apply to almost all businesses. But dentists are one of the very few professions that can get away with charging $2000 for 2 or 3 hours of work. As I stated several pages earlier...people don't become dentists because they like teeth. They choose the profession because the fee scale they have created that they all follow guarantees massive earnings.

By the way, working on a Saturday isn't unheard of in almost any profession.

You aren’t paying for the hours they spend today, you’re paying for the hours it took to get there.