Live in the Moment?

Maybe there is a sweet spot in the pre-teen years where they are old enough to enjoy the trips and behave but not too old to be seen in public with their parents? Or is that wishful thinking? :)

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Wishful Thinking ! They do go to sleep away camp for a few weeks when they are about eleven or twelve so there is hope .
 
Really? We were just discussing the feasibility of taking our 3 and 4 year olds to Paris or somewhere else in Europe for a week. They complain of being tired after walking 0.25-0.5 miles without fail. They are good to go in an art museum for 30 minutes max. Not much in the Louvre I can see in 30 mins. I don't see how I could pull off a trip to Paris with kids in tow and not pull all of my remaining hair out.

I'm not big into art museums, so my better half hit a couple of those up while I hit the streets, chilled at an outdoor cafe while the little guy was happy to munch on his "elephant ear" cookie and drink milk, later we got ice cream and I just let him play in a park while I took in the atmosphere and walked around with him.

Maybe it's because my idea of a vacation doesn't involve checking off a list of tourist-trap "must see" places. Instead, I like to walk around and take in the vibe of a city, enjoy the food and drink, and just relax. And we always try to get out of the city and to a beach or more rural setting for part of the trip.


Not to mention the poor schmuck sitting in front of your kids on the transatlantic flight enduring 10 hours of them kicking the back of his seat.

Doesn't happen with my kid. I'm not the let-my-kid-kick-the-seat-in-front-of-him type. There are still parents who raise their children to behave out there.

You all should wait until they are in college before you can truly expect to enjoy such trips. And that is of course assuming that you survive their teenage years. That is when you really lose all your hair.

To each his own. I've enjoyed every trip I've been on since my kid was born (he's almost 3) -- Europe three times, and a few domestic U.S. trips as well (not counting day-trips to the beach etc.).

The universe does not revolve around my kid, and he goes where we want to go -- not the other way around. He seems to be enjoying himself, and turning out just fine.

Or at least don't bring very young children and expect them to do much or care about much if you were in, say, Paris.

Oh, there's no doubt my kid would be equally happy checking into a Motel 6 down the road and swimming in the pool out back for an entire week. I'm not going places in the hopes my toddler will appreciate the architecture and atmosphere of a foreign country. We travel because we enjoy it -- and he comes with us because he's part of the family.

We are sensitive to his age and try to find fun stuff for him to do, but so far I've found the main thing with little kids is that they just need enough time to run around and burn off excess energy, and if you give them some of that then they are quite content to do more low-key things during the day (e.g. if I get up a bit earlier than I otherwise would and go kick a soccer ball around the park across the street from the hotel for 30 minutes, I find I can enjoy a leisurely breakfast while the little guy munches away and watches the world around him). Rent a bicycle with a child seat and tour the city; take a boat ride; enjoy some street performers;

In a way I think hauling the kids half way across the globe for a relatively short vacation could be a little selfish and not a particularly productive way to spend your limited time with them. I'd rather take them to the playground in our neighborhood or let them play in the backyard or go swimming or something vs. make them sit quietly through a 24 hour round trip flight to/from Europe at the age they are at now. However I also want to go on some vacations in less than 15 years, so we will probably leave the kids with family and take some short jaunts around the globe. I think a 6-7 day trip to Uruguay and Argentina is the current plan early 2010 at this point.

There's plenty of playground-visiting going on in every day life; taking my kid on holiday with me overseas doesn't cut into that in any meaningful way.

To each his own. I'd rather have my kid with us as part of a family vacation than drop him off somewhere before I head to the airport. I've had plenty of child-free travel before we had kids, and I hope to have plenty more once we're empty-nesters. While my kids are young, I'd like to enjoy life with them, and for me that includes traveling and seeing new places.

All of this is dependent on not raising children to be center-of-the-universe brats, but that's a separate issue altogether.

YMMV
 
Wow, didn't know my post would touch off such a great discussion of traveling with kids. We're not planning on a European vacation in the next couple of years, but that doesn't mean we won't go on vacation...somewhere. The best advice I was given in regards to traveling with kids is to have a firm base of operations where you can dump all your luggage and kid-related stuff, and go from there.

My parents took me and my siblings on trips all across the U.S. when we were younger. Once we were old enough for summer camp, they sent us all away for a month while they took off for Europe and just spent time with each other at home without us. No complaints here, as I learned how to hunt, track wildlife, shoot a bow and arrow, shoot .22 rifles, work leather, and all sorts of other "useful" skills.
 
Our parents had the same question. :)
Ha

Correct! Some of the kids grew up to have their pictures taken and posted in the concurrent threads about some shoppers in Walmart. There are some scary adults there. :ROFLMAO:

Seriously, my siblings and I were never much of a trouble to my parents. They had it easy with us, compared what we have to deal with ours. Ah, the progress over time.

Regarding traveling with kids, we did do some travels with ours when they were younger. We went on road trips, and also air travels. They were fairly well behaved on cross-country flights, to go to Florida for example. However, we did not even think of taking them to Europe; from where we are, it would be an excruciatingly long flight. Pain and suffering for everybody. Even for ourselves, the return flights were always a lot more miserable than the outbound flights.

We did leave them home with relatives a few times. No, the world did not revolve around them. Leaving them home was for really for us.
 
Maybe it's because my idea of a vacation doesn't involve checking off a list of tourist-trap "must see" places.

Laudable; but then many of us might not consider the Louvre to be a tourist trap.

Ha
 
Wow, didn't know my post would touch off such a great discussion of traveling with kids.
...My parents took me and my siblings on trips all across the U.S. when we were younger...
Ah the days of piling everyone in the station wagon and going to Cape Cod, Montreal, Pennsylvania Dutch country, Maryland shore and Washington DC, when it was actually affordable for families. :D
 
Intellectually, I know there's no race. I'll get there when I get there. And my life will be happier if I just sit back and enjoy the ride. But the dull grind of going to work every day just wears on me.
Yeah, me too. I am so sick of reading endless medical reports and preparing legal opinions that in all likelihood no one will ever read.

My only suggestions are to take days off. Not even necessarily to go on vacation, just stay at home for the day. Catch up on some movies. Do some niggling chores around the house if the mood strikes. Just allow yourself to take a breath.
Good advice, which I will endeavour to follow.
 
Memories, memories. My father used to say that our 1963 Catalina had his fingerprints permanently embedded in its steering wheel after taking Skyline Drive. It is (was?) a narrow one lane road, with a sheer rock face on one side and a sheer drop off on the other. No shoulders. No guardrails. A year after our trip there, one of my father's coworkers literally scraped the mirrors and doorhandles from his car.

Holiday Inns with pools. Howard Johnsons with ice cream parlors. The interminable drive across across the plains to escape Texas. Sigh.
 
Ah the days of piling everyone in the station wagon and going to Cape Cod, Montreal, Pennsylvania Dutch country, Maryland shore and Washington DC, when it was actually affordable for families. :D

Yup. Some fond memories there. I mentioned a few family trips when I gave my dad's eulogy a few weeks ago. I miss him. :(

In any event, I enjoy driving on the highway. Lots to see as you drive through places most people fly over on their way to one of the coasts or major cities. Likewise, you can listen to all kinds of music, books on CD, etc... (as long as it's not "and the wheels of the bus go round and round... :whistle:).
 
To each his own. I'd rather have my kid with us as part of a family vacation than drop him off somewhere before I head to the airport. I've had plenty of child-free travel before we had kids, and I hope to have plenty more once we're empty-nesters. While my kids are young, I'd like to enjoy life with them, and for me that includes traveling and seeing new places.

All of this is dependent on not raising children to be center-of-the-universe brats, but that's a separate issue altogether.

YMMV
Lusitan, I admire your attitude. If you have the resources to travel with your kids, it can be such a great learning experience for them and fun too. I have a friend who does volunteer work in developing countries. Recently she took a sabbatical from her work as a physician to set up a clinic in Malawi. The project took six months and her whole family came along. The kids went to school in Malawi. They have had a unique experience, have new friends to correspond with, and truly understand just how privileged they are.

Disclaimer: I don't have kids.
 
Laudable; but then many of us might not consider the Louvre to be a tourist trap.

Exactly. I'm not a huge art fan by any means. But I can appreciate a good painting, even if it isn't a "name" artist. But seeing these famous works of art that you usually see only in reprints or digitally or in photos is impressive.

DW and I actually discussed exactly this - I wanted to see the Louvre, and she said she could care less about seeing it. It is just another boring art museum to her. So maybe I could take a page out of the Lusitan playbook and let her watch the kids while I spend a day wandering the halls of the Louvre. I doubt that would go over well... :D

(not directed at you, Ha) We are unfortunately constrained by the limits of "3 weeks a year" vacations, so that allows roughly 5 to 7 days actually in country on a vacation assuming we do more than 1 a year. If I'm going to stroll around a park with our kids, I can do that in my neighborhood now. I don't want to put them through 24+ hours of flying just to let them stroll through the park 4000 miles away from home. I'd actually like to see some of the sights of where I am.

I love to wander around foreign places too, and don't particularly care for tourist traps either. But places of true historical significance or otherwise amazing beauty are worthy of my attention while vacationing.

However our upcoming trip to Uruguay/Argentina (sans kids) will probably be a lot of "doing nothing". Drinking coffee or wine, eating steak, walking the streets, drinking more wine and eating more steak, watching tango dancers in the public square, receiving massages/spa treatments (DW). Chatting up some portenos. Viviendo la vida despacia.
 
Lusitan, I admire your attitude. If you have the resources to travel with your kids, it can be such a great learning experience for them and fun too. I have a friend who does volunteer work in developing countries. Recently she took a sabbatical from her work as a physician to set up a clinic in Malawi. The project took six months and her whole family came along. The kids went to school in Malawi. They have had a unique experience, have new friends to correspond with, and truly understand just how privileged they are.

I aspire to do something like this one day (take kids on round the world trip or be a perpetual traveler for a year). But it will have to be when the kids are older for the kids to gain any real perspective or experience.
 
Lusitan, I admire your attitude. If you have the resources to travel with your kids, it can be such a great learning experience for them and fun too. I have a friend who does volunteer work in developing countries. Recently she took a sabbatical from her work as a physician to set up a clinic in Malawi. The project took six months and her whole family came along. The kids went to school in Malawi. They have had a unique experience, have new friends to correspond with, and truly understand just how privileged they are.

That's one of my goals for FIRE -- spending extended periods of time abroad with the family. Backup scenario would be a foreign exchange program in high school for a year. But I agree, the exposure and experiences that this would give a child is really a great thing.
 
I'm not a huge art fan by any means. But I can appreciate a good painting, even if it isn't a "name" artist. But seeing these famous works of art that you usually see only in reprints or digitally or in photos is impressive.

Yeah, I'm the wrong guy to talk to about art museums. I live practically next door to one of the best art museums in the world, the Met, and I really couldn't care less based on the number of times I've gone there over the years. I don't spend my time looking at "world famous art" in my own backyard, I'm not about to fly thousands of miles to pretend I'm interested in some other country's version of it.

I have taken my kid into other museums and had a great time, both at home and abroad, but I'll concede that art museums and late nights on the town are two things you cannot do on holiday with kids in tow (unless you bring a nanny along with you). But there are countless other sights to see in my experience.
 
So far, we've gone to Germany/Austria, Egypt/Jordan, Alaska (Cruise) and in November we will be in Japan with our toddler, who will be 2 by then. He is quite active, but he was actually easier on the trips then at home. He loved going to new places and so many people initiated conversations with us because of the baby.

Germany/Austria was downright easy because he was only 6 months and he was easy to carry around and my wife was breastfeeding. Don't need to worry about the water, food, healthcare, transportation etc. We've heard Japan is the same way from others who traveled with kids there.

That being said, Egypt/Jordan was difficult because we ended up getting sick for part of the trip (not the baby, but the adults on the trip including my parents). We were careful to bring his food, so he was unaffected. Although we had a wonderful time, we decided against going to 'third world' trips till he is older. The only reason we went on this was because of my elderly parents. They've always wanted to see Egypt and they aren't getting younger.

He's also been on a few 1-2 weeks trips to the northwest to hang out with the other grandparents.
 
we decided against going to 'third world' trips till he is older.

Good call; I also learned that lesson early on in the business, with a pregnant wife in Morroco. :LOL:

I'll table the third-world countries until after the kids are grown, unless we know people there who we're visiting or are doing some extended-stay volunteer program of some sort ...
 
I was sort of feeling similar to the OP. I had a great job, made lots of money, and bought all the toys I wanted. But something was missing still. I was never sure what it was.

Then I had DD. Sort of felt like a "reason to live" to be more engaged, to not just go thru the motions. I never thought I'd have kids, was always scared of them.

That worked for me, but your mileage may vary.
 
I was sort of feeling similar to the OP. I had a great job, made lots of money, and bought all the toys I wanted. But something was missing still. I was never sure what it was.

Then I had DD. Sort of felt like a "reason to live" to be more engaged, to not just go thru the motions. I never thought I'd have kids, was always scared of them.

That worked for me, but your mileage may vary.

I felt the same way. It was almost if my real life began when my first child was born, and got even better with the second one. My son is having the exact same experience with his baby daughter.

Ha
 
I felt the same way. It was almost if my real life began when my first child was born, and got even better with the second one. My son is having the exact same experience with his baby daughter.

Without a doubt. Kids change your perspective on life, your motivations, your interests.
 
Yeah, I'm the wrong guy to talk to about art museums. I live practically next door to one of the best art museums in the world, the Met, and I really couldn't care less based on the number of times I've gone there over the years. I don't spend my time looking at "world famous art" in my own backyard, I'm not about to fly thousands of miles to pretend I'm interested in some other country's version of it.

I have taken my kid into other museums and had a great time, both at home and abroad, but I'll concede that art museums and late nights on the town are two things you cannot do on holiday with kids in tow (unless you bring a nanny along with you). But there are countless other sights to see in my experience.

Oh man, I loved the Met the one time I went. I just wish I would have spent more time on the parts of it that I wanted to see the most, since you can't really see the whole place in a day. I could easily spend another day or three in there. That was probably the highlight of my NYC vacation.

I'll add a bit to the "vacation with kids" tangent. Two things that worked wonderfully for us: 1. A beach house rental for us and the extended family. We live 2-3 hrs from the ocean and rented in the shoulder season when prices are 30% or less of the peak season prices. Family was there to help with kids. 2. Cruise with our family plus mom and grandma. My mom and grandma watched the kids some, and they actually stayed in mom and grandma's cabin (we paid for 1/2 the cabin). Plus cruises have free daycare services most of the time, and so we used that too. Some days in port we left the kids with my mom and went out on our adventures (sneaking in places, climbing stuff, walking long distances through sketch neighborhoods, etc).
 
I was sort of feeling similar to the OP. I had a great job, made lots of money, and bought all the toys I wanted. But something was missing still. I was never sure what it was.

Then I had DD. Sort of felt like a "reason to live" to be more engaged, to not just go thru the motions. I never thought I'd have kids, was always scared of them.

That worked for me, but your mileage may vary.

It's a huge life decision. The flip side would be having a kid and then finding out that you didn't really want to be a parent after all. I'm sure there are plenty of those people out there.
 
The flip side would be having a kid and then finding out that you didn't really want to be a parent after all. I'm sure there are plenty of those people out there.

I'd love to hear from one, because I've never heard anyone say that. Although I suppose someone could think it, and keep it to themselves. :LOL:
 
I'd love to hear from one, because I've never heard anyone say that. Although I suppose someone could think it, and keep it to themselves. :LOL:


A number are in jail.... after killing them... I don't think I want to talk to them...

From what I have seen... most of the normal ones are men... but I did meet a woman who wished she did not have kids... but she seemed detached anyhow...
 
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