Accepting My Mortality

It's been said many times on this board and elsewhere, that you're perfectly healthy until suddenly you're not. At that point, you start thinking more about the shape of the graph and at what angle you'll be hitting the X axis, and what that ride down is going to feel like.
I am seeing this with my DFIL--still leaving alone at 96 and going to his "shop" HVAC biz but not really working. He started to lose vigor mid year and needed to nee
ded a trolly to help when walking anything beyond the living room. Then last Oct, started to have pain in stomach area and was hospitalized. Turned out to be blockage and infection in his gall bladder and bile duct. Once in hospital he has not been able to leave his bed. Now in hospice. Has made 97 but not sure how much longer anyone knows. Spending his last months flat on his back and sleeping. Hospice spikes his water with morphine to help with pain management. Personally not my idea of how I want to spend my last months.
 
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My grandmother died in her mid 50's. Once my mother reached that age, she started stating that she could die at any time and she was not proactive in maintaining her health because she did not feel optimistic. She lived to almost 89.
I am in better shape than either of my parents were ay the same age. So, I figure that there is a good chance (knock on wood) that I will live into my 90's - and my goal is to stay as healthy as possible. One thing I did is start an intentional walking program. that resulted in my LDL (bad) cholesterol changing from 150 down to 111. And I hope to bring it down more this year.
I also had a sister that dies at age 29. I was 5 years older. But there were many times when I thought to myself that I had opportunities in my career and life that my sister never had. So I should be grateful for them and move forward because she never had the opportunity.
Surprise, surprise, we all will die. The thing to make sure that you do whatever possible to keep a positive attitude and stay in as good health as you can.
 
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Hi Mountainsoft,

Having a father die at 52 when I was 8 probably gave me a heightened sense of mortality from a young age. Also probably contributed to my ER at ~52. I try not to spend any time on dwelling on my mortality but try to "live by having minimal regrets, if I die tomorrow".


Same. I was 6 and present when a fatal arrhythmia took dad at 28yo. FI but not ER until end of 22. A "heightened sense of mortality" is an understatement.
 
I had cancer 5 years back, at 55, and it was surgically removed. All the numbers were good until about a year ago, when they started to take the wrong turn. At this point, the numbers are still progressing the wrong way, but not quite considered biochemical recurrence. But they have been progressing long enough that the docs think it is/will proceed to recurrence. It was prostate cancer, and the problem is that the current numbers are too low for scans to pick it up. If the numbers go up further in April, my urologist suggests proceeding to radiation of the prostate bed. The bad news is that when the scans cannot pick it up, we don’t know if it is in the prostate bed, or somewhere else that prostate cancer likes to take hold on, like bones, lungs, or brain. I figure if it is still in the prostate bed, and I have radiation, I still have a good long life ahead of me. OTOH, if we radiate the prostate bed, but the numbers don’t go back down, that means the cancer has taken hold elsewhere. That means that I probably have 8-10 years left, max. It has been an emotional rollercoaster for DW and me. We’ve pretty much decided that we are going to accelerate our “play” plans a little, so that we have time to enjoy some things together that she is unlikely to enjoy if I go earlier than anticipated. We have ample resources, so even if we enjoy things at an accelerated pace, she’ll still have plenty when I’m gone.

When life gives you some iffy news, it certainly does change your perspective some. In my case, nothing is in stone yet, but if the radiation doesn’t work as anticipated, we need to be prepared for that eventuality.
 
As I get older I just hate seeing my wife get older. I would give her my years, but knowing her and how sweet she is, she wouldn't take them.
 
I am a few days from birthday 69. I am currently in treatment for my second round of ovarian cancer. I’m an only child. Yes I’m married, grown children live in another state. Both my parents passed in the last year in their mid-90’s. I took care of them12years before I could not any longer and they ended their lives in assisted living. I don’t worry about living. I’ve had a great life. I worry about living too long and being a burden to my family. I’m living under a timeline now and I’m not worried a bit. But living too long and going thru another cancer does worry me. Live each day as your last. Be happy. Good luck.
 
Such an important topic.

When I was kid my mom and dad were in the hospital simultaneously, on and off, for three years. Mom with cancer, Dad with effects of long-term diabetes and then heart disease. I was 11-13 at the time. They both survived but suffice it to say death was on the table in a very practical way.

At 42 I had a very scary heart episode. It ended fine but there was a point where a cardiac nurse looked at me and said "I dunno...you might just have a bad heart. It happens." There was a period in the middle of the night where my heart was freaking out, machines were screaming, and they had the shock paddles out but didn't have to use them. My oxygen levels dropped so far that I lost my vision for a time that night.

Last year my wife came within a few hours of dying and spent 40 days in intensive care.

Both the heart craziness and ICU journey left me lots of time to think.

Weirdly, its given me a lot of peace that when it was really time to stare down the big questions, I was pretty OK with how its all played out. Both re-enforced for me the importance of living life to its fullest.

Whenever I think about mortality, I try to think back across the many billions of people that have lived on this planet and remember that I am among the luckiest people to ever be here.

I was born white, straight, Christan and male in the late 20th century in a secular western democracy to a stable family. Winner winner, chicken dinner.

It was not my part to die on a beach in some god forsaken war -- and even more so not to have to do that in the service of some evil regime. I wasn't born to famine or plague or abject poverty. I wasn't born under a totaltarian regime or a brutal theocracy.

I was born into the greatest set of technology advances in history with the opportunity and ability to participate in them. The difficulties of my youth left me well grounded and I married well and young. We've been blessed with two healthy, smart kids.

I'm 50. If I died today, I have had a fuller and better life than the vast, vast majority to have ever drawn breath.

So, I try to just be grateful.
 
I'm going to turn 70 in June and I am NOT happy about it.

It's not the idea of being 70 that bothers me. It's the idea that in 10 very short years, God willing, I'll be 80! Eighty!! Me?

Genes: Dad died at 57, mom is 92, lives alone, sharp and still drives so who knows what I have ahead?

But I've mentioned it here a few times: An old man once told me "Enjoy your life now. Even if you live to be 90, by the time you're 78 or 80 you just won't want to do much of anything but stay home and read books."
 
But I've mentioned it here a few times: An old man once told me "Enjoy your life now. Even if you live to be 90, by the time you're 78 or 80 you just won't want to do much of anything but stay home and read books."
That's about the way I see it too... I suspect I've got another 8 to 10 years (if I'm lucky). After that it's just eating Cheetos and watching premium movie channels. (I may read a few books too.) That's if I can still chew and see well enough. Threads like this, make me start to re-think my WR for the next decade since after that, I just don't think I'll need it, or care!

Of course, YMMV.
 
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Read an essay from a famous agnostic writer.

Death and the Meaning of Life


Different understandings about what happens to us at death embody and
promote different views about what we consider to be the ultimate reality of
life, what it is that we think - at the deepest level of our being -
provides meaning for our existence and makes sense of the world we encounter
while still breathing.

I have given four examples from the ancient world. Each of them portrays a
different sense of ultimate reality, of one thing, in each case, that
establishes, determines, and directs everything that finally matters for
human existence in general - for all people who have ever lived - and for
our specific existence in particular. All four involve trips to the realms
of the dead, in order to see what happens for those who are no longer
living. Each is meant to show what we should live for now, based on what
the ultimate meaning of life is, what the very root and fabric of human
existence consist of. In this post I'll talk about two of them.

When Odysseus travels to the underworld in Homer's Odyssey book 11, he finds
that virtually everyone who has ever lived for all eternity (he sees four,
count them, four exceptions) has exactly the same fate. Death is the great
Equalizer. It comes to everyone and after it happens, all differences are
leveled out. At death there is no more life. Nothing to enjoy. Nothing
to look forward to. The past doesn't matter. The future doesn't happen.
There is no pleasure and no pain, and there never will be. At that point,
it is entirely over. Forever and ever and ever and ever.

Homer imagines that the soul of the person does continue to exist, in some
sense. But it can't be said that they still "live." There is nothing there
for them. They are "shades" or "shadows" of those who once lived.

This is comparable to the view that many people - an increasing number of
people - continue to have in our world today, although the view has been transposed into a modern key thanks to our
understandings of biology and anatomy. People with this modern view (I
number myself among them) believe that the mind does not exist apart from
the body, that there is no soul apart from the physical entities that
comprise the brain. When we die, life is over. Our soul or mind or spirit
doesn't somehow survive. It's over. It's done. There is nothing more,
ever again.

Some people - most people in America - find this view either too terrifying
or depressing or unfair/unjust to accept. And so for them it is
counterintuitive. It's not that they've worked through the scientific
issues of how the brain works or where consciousness comes from. It's that
they simply can't and so won't imagine it. There *must* be something more.
Otherwise life has no meaning.

But I need to stress, that this conclusion is in fact is the opposite of
Homer's. For Homer, life does have meaning. In fact, it has *all* the
meaning. Enjoy it while you can. When it's over it's over.

But even in ancient Greece many thought that death cannot be the final
answer, and that what we actually do, and accomplish, and stand for matter;
that there is a quality of life that is more important than the mere
existence of life, not simply in the present tense but in the future tense.
If everything is equalized at the point of death, then there is no reason to
do anything but grab for as much power, wealth, influence, and pleasure as
possible, of every imaginable kind, while living, regardless of how that
affects other people.

In this view, if there is nothing after death, and if this life is all there
is, then other people are not sources of meaning or important in and of
themselves, in any way. They are either objects for or obstacles to our own
enjoyment. And so - it was thought (and still is) - that if there is no
accounting after death for how we behave in this life, then there can be no
societal norms, and only the rich, the powerful, the hedonistic get
pleasure. The 1% get it all. The rest simply are tools to be used for the
pleasure and enjoyment of others. And so we get despots and tyrants.

Plato is the one we know best for countering this view by arguing that life
is not - is absolutely not - about striving for all the power and pleasure
that can be obtained. At its very deepest root, life involves forsaking
physical pleasure for the sake of deeper, real meaning in life; for Plato
that involved the life of the mind, "Philosophy" (which literally means "the
love of wisdom"). Those who live for pleasure get it completely wrong. That
is not what life is about. It is about knowing how to live properly (based
on true philosophy), to seek for justice, and honor, and truth.

It is within the context of developing these ideas in his many Dialogues
that Plato occasionally expressed his views by telling "myths" (i.e.
fictional stories) about the afterlife and what would happen at death. In
these myths, a person does not simply die and then is dead for all eternity,
just like everyone else who is dead for all eternity. Everyone will have
to account for how they have lived.

Have they lived just for bodily desires, as if their own pleasure was all
that mattered and that getting it at any cost - whatever pain and misery
they might cause for others - was the goal of existence? If so, then they
will, after death, receive what they gave. They will be physically
punished. Have they lived the life of philosophy, caring not for the
pleasures of their bodies but the virtues of their mind, striving to do what
is right, no matter what the consequences for themselves? They would be
rewarded after death.

Centuries after Plato Virgil picked up on this theme in his Aeneid, book 6.
Aeneas, as we have seen, takes a journey to the underworld just as Odysseus
had in Homer's Odyssey book 11 (Virgil's model for his account), but what he
finds is very different. Death is not the great equalizer. Everyone is not
equal. By any means.

Aeneas finds two very distinct places within Hades: Tartarus and Elysium.
Those in Tartarus experience horrifying and eternal punishments (Aeneas
hears the screams, the cracking of the whips, the dragging of the chains)
because in life they deeply harmed others. These are not only the tyrants
but also regular folks: murderers, the rapacious, those who accumulated
wealth by destroying the lives of others, traitors, those who committed
incest, and on and on.

In Elysium, on the other hand, there is a gloriously pleasant existence
-pleasant wooded areas basking in lovely light, where people dance and sing
and engage in meaningful conversation. And most people there have a chance
to come back to life and enjoy the world above yet again.

In short, at the heart of our existence here on earth, there is meaning in
how we choose to live. There is justice. Good lives will be rewarded.
Wicked lives will be punished. We should not simply live for ourselves, for
our own pleasures. We should treat others well and be concerned for them as
well as for ourselves. That is the ultimate meaning of life.

There is much more to both Homer and Virgil than this, of course.
Especially Virgil, who ultimately thought - and portrayed in Aeneas's
observation of the underworld - that it was the Roman empire that was the
ultimate point of existence, with its civilizing capacities and ultimate
destiny to rule the earth.

But the basic points of Homer and Virgil provide stark contrasts with one
another, and should certainly give us pause. Is this life all there is? If
so, does that mean we should strive for pleasure at all costs, everyone else
be damned? Or should we live lives that are just and fair, working not just
for our own pleasure but concerned as well for the world around us? These
questions, of course, affect not just our personal ethical decisions and
religious views, but our social and political commitments as well. What
kind of world do we want to live in and what kind of society - and leaders -
do we want to support and promote?
 
If you want your life to be a magnificent story then begin by realizing that you are the author and everyday you have the opportunity to write a new page.

I left my desk j*b five years to run my businesses. After losing my husband to a mercifully short spar with a brain tumor 9 years ago, I knew how short it really can be. There had to be a better way than sitting behind a computer miserable and blind to insular everyday of cold coffee and rush hour traffic. I can't, I won't, I refuse to go to a place of complacency again. I need to honor that fragility of life and love.

The depth of love is revealed in its departure...
 
I was always pretty healthy, no major problems into my early 60's.

Then 2019 hit. In the space of 6 months:
* Diagnosed with prostate cancer
* Flipped a bike and cracked 5 ribs
* Diagnosed with Mantle Cell Lymphoma, the exact evil stuff that slowly killed my dad. Mayo &etc said it's incurable, expect 2-3 years. Based on my dad's experience, it was NOT going to be pleasant. I expected a gradual slide into greater and greater suffering and disability until death. I was freaking, considering suicide options, etc.
* Several surgeries, biopsies, implanted radioactive pellets in the prostate, etc.
* Minor rotator cuff tear escalated into a frozen shoulder, couldn't lift my hand above elbow-to-shoulder height.
* My mom passed.
* Oh and there was this pandemic thing...

So it was a scary time. I'm not that afraid of dying, but I DON'T want to spend years suffering.

Now I'm 65. Fortunately my oncologist said the Mayo&etc data was outdated. He put me on a new drug regimen -- just a couple of pills every morning, zero side effects -- and it's totally in remission. Doc says that should hold me at least 5 years, and if it quits working, by then there will be better options available. (Thank God for insurance... these drugs are $1000 a DAY.)

So it's time to act like a retired person and enjoy myself. Unfortunately my DW left me 10 yrs ago so I can't do many things I would have liked to, like travel adventures with my bestest buddy and partner-in-crime. I don't like traveling alone, but I would have been doing a lot more trips lately (the bike accident was in Bordeaux, and I was in Tuscany the year before that) but Covid put a kink in those plans. The lymphoma makes me VERY susceptible to Covid, with a 50% fatality rate if I get it. So I've been isolated in my house for 2 years. I am (/was) very social and the enforced isolation is driving me bonkers.

So I can't get into a plane or anything like that. But I'm picking up a new Tesla in March, and I plan to do some road trips and car camping. Gotta get out there and LIVE while I still can.

Wow! You inspire me....thanks for posting
 
Longevity is vastly overrated.

Everyone on my Mom's side, except one of her sisters, lived to a great age, the last 10+ years of it in ever-worsening dementia. I consider that far worse than death. I feel as if the one Aunt, who died suddenly of an aneurysm at age 70, was the lucky one.

Most people won't be lucky enough to drop dead suddenly. But if I'm going to suffer a decline in health over my last remaining years then I'd rather it began when I was 85 instead of 70.
 
Most people won't be lucky enough to drop dead suddenly. But if I'm going to suffer a decline in health over my last remaining years then I'd rather it began when I was 85 instead of 70.
Yes, and if asked the same question in 5 years, and still haven't gotten bad health news, you might say "90 instead of 75" :)
 
I have fortune cookie saying on my rear view mirror that I've had for a few years now. "As one grows to undrstand life less and less, one learns to live life more and more."
 
I'm going to turn 70 in June and I am NOT happy about it.

It's not the idea of being 70 that bothers me. It's the idea that in 10 very short years, God willing, I'll be 80! Eighty!! Me?

Genes: Dad died at 57, mom is 92, lives alone, sharp and still drives so who knows what I have ahead?

But I've mentioned it here a few times: An old man once told me "Enjoy your life now. Even if you live to be 90, by the time you're 78 or 80 you just won't want to do much of anything but stay home and read books."

That's about the way I see it too... I suspect I've got another 8 to 10 years (if I'm lucky). After that it's just eating Cheetos and watching premium movie channels. (I may read a few books too.) That's if I can still chew and see well enough. Threads like this, make me start to re-think my WR for the next decade since after that, I just don't think I'll need it, or care!

Of course, YMMV.

I hear a "quitter's" attitude about being a 70+ year old from you guys. First, be glad you got there! Second, if you stay in good physical condition, you can do most anything.

I'm 78, playing the best golf in 20 years, have two hip replacements (that was a blessing), and hang out with a group of similar age guys (ROMEO Club) and we do all kinds of activities together.

What was that commercial a few years ago..? 80 is the new 60? Or something like that.
 
I hear a "quitter's" attitude about being a 70+ year old from you guys. First, be glad you got there! Second, if you stay in good physical condition, you can do most anything.

I'm 78, playing the best golf in 20 years, have two hip replacements (that was a blessing), and hang out with a group of similar age guys (ROMEO Club) and we do all kinds of activities together.

What was that commercial a few years ago..? 80 is the new 60? Or something like that.
No not a quitter, just realistic "for me". But YMMV

I sometimes feel like one of the old cars I had just a few years ago...Replacing parts and PM became more and more important as time went on but at some point they were just worn out.

In anycase, I'm not holding back, "I may blow a gasket :)" but I plan to drive the heck out of the next ~10 years...
 
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I hear a "quitter's" attitude about being a 70+ year old from you guys. First, be glad you got there! Second, if you stay in good physical condition, you can do most anything.

I'm 78, playing the best golf in 20 years, have two hip replacements (that was a blessing), and hang out with a group of similar age guys (ROMEO Club) and we do all kinds of activities together.

What was that commercial a few years ago..? 80 is the new 60? Or something like that.

I hope to play golf when I'm 78 too. But, the reality is that 80 will never be the same as 60 no matter how good you feel. I'm 59 and in pretty good shape. I shingled 3 houses last year, carrying bundles up the ladder for 2 of them. I won't be doing that at 80 regardless of how good I feel. I won't even be doing that at 70.
 
I hope to play golf when I'm 78 too. But, the reality is that 80 will never be the same as 60 no matter how good you feel. I'm 59 and in pretty good shape. I shingled 3 houses last year, carrying bundles up the ladder for 2 of them. I won't be doing that at 80 regardless of how good I feel. I won't even be doing that at 70.

Yeah, you learn what you can't do when you get over 70, and most of it has to do with stuff like that. The last roof I shingled was when I was in my mid 40's. I don't even go on the roof anymore (or a tall ladder). I'm not a skier, but a couple of my 70+ year old friends go skiing every winter and still have fun. I'll stick to golf and taking care of my Mustang Convertible. :D
 
Yeah, you learn what you can't do when you get over 70, and most of it has to do with stuff like that. The last roof I shingled was when I was in my mid 40's. I don't even go on the roof anymore (or a tall ladder). I'm not a skier, but a couple of my 70+ year old friends go skiing every winter and still have fun. I'll stick to golf and taking care of my Mustang Convertible. :D

I plan to stay in shape to ensure that my remaining time is as enjoyable as possible. That's one of the few things that I can control.

Speaking of golf, I have a damaged meniscus and can't walk a full round anymore. But I still fit in as much walking as my knee can handle during the round. I let the other person drive the cart and hop off with a couple clubs a couple hundred yards from the green, and walk most par 3's. So instead of walking 8 - 10 kms I walk 4 or 5.
 
I’m also on Losartan for many year now adding Amlodipine to keep BP under control. I felt something is not right and saw a Cardiologist last month, to my surprise he diagnosed Arrhythmia irregular heartbeat and I’m now on Xarelto.

Did your doctor take you off Losartan? My irregular heart beat stopped once I quit taking the Losartan. One or two minor episodes in the following weeks, but now nothing, back to normal. Ironically, I took Losartan for six months with no issues, then the side effects hit me suddenly.

My doctor started me on 5mg Amlodipine. I didn't see that it did anything. No change to BP. I do have some minor side effects though. Loss of balance, frequent headaches, and occasional hot flashes in my face.

He now added 25mg Metoprolol, a beta blocker. It made a dramatic difference in my BP, bringing it down around 20 points. No side effects so far other than it slowed my heart rate from 60 to around 50 or less.
 
He now added 25mg Metoprolol, a beta blocker. It made a dramatic difference in my BP, bringing it down around 20 points.
+1 on Toprol. I've been taking 50 mg for 15 years and it's controlled my irregular heartbeat and keeps my blood pressure down. I was forced to switch to the generic form (metoprol) last year due to insurance coverage restrictions but it seems to be working just as well so far.
 
+1 - And I'm super afraid of going into a nursing home.

I'm 63 and retired 3 weeks ago. At age 17 I worked part-time at a top quality 200 bed nursing home. It was the most rewarding job I ever held. I mopped floors and helped with general maintenance. The reward was from the amazing life stories so many patients shared with me. However, I came away from that job promising myself to never allow myself to be sent to a LTC facility.

Only a very small percentage of the patients genuinely seemed happy, and the reason was crystal clear. Those who had visitors several times a week were happy. Those who had visitors once a week or less were clearly unhappy.
 
During my last physical, I told my doc the decade of 60-70 years old is going to be brutal. Just because of getting in old age.

He just looked at me and didn't respond :LOL:.

As I get older, my plan is to just cherish the time I have on earth as I do believe days are dicey one you get up there in age.

It’s all a myth. Age is just a number.
 
I plan to stay in shape to ensure that my remaining time is as enjoyable as possible. That's one of the few things that I can control.

Speaking of golf, I have a damaged meniscus and can't walk a full round anymore. But I still fit in as much walking as my knee can handle during the round. I let the other person drive the cart and hop off with a couple clubs a couple hundred yards from the green, and walk most par 3's. So instead of walking 8 - 10 kms I walk 4 or 5.

That's great! I had a torn meniscus repaired a few years ago and ended up with arthritis in that knee. But it doesn't really hurt, it's just a bit stiff. Seems like my knees outlived my hips! LOL But the new hips gave me a new ease on staying active.
 
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