Are you the 9.9%?

[athena53]

I was not the classic LBYM like many people on this site, but did save monies from my first job on until retirement.

I was in a high pressure upper mgmt job where the day started at 6:30am and indirectly ended at 11pm.

Thus, I feel no guilt in retiring early, but am always conscious (now) of not saying anything controversial to those who appear less fortunate.

Same here; I know I was blessed with marketable skills and good health, but I spent 99% of my spare time the first 8 years of my career getting through actuarial exams, and started saving as soon as I got my first real job the day after I graduated.

Some of it is under our control; one thing that occurred to me in reading through this is that, with the same salary history I could easily be in the group complaining about the 9.9%. I never made more than $150K/year. spent 25 years in a HCOL area (Bergen County, NJ) and survived a messy divorce to a financial basket case. A few more bucks spent on big, shiny new cars every few years, a bigger house, hired help to clean it and mow the lawn, a few cruises every year, more jewelry.... yeah, I could have made that money disappear easily and be trying to live off SS alone right now.

 

[Hermit]

I fail to see how our hard work, refusing to get into trouble, and LBYM ethics (even when the "means" were barely enough to get by) constitute something "toxic," as the article's opening lines have it.

I couldn't read more than the first couple of paragraphs. I just don't care at all for that line...

 

[gcgang]

It seemed the only thing that made the author happy is the "equalizing" effects that World War or the financial implosion of 1929 had.

I like the Atlantic because it's one of the few "magazines" that still print thought provoking articles not suitable for the McPaper/TV news/30 second attention span crowd. But as the author points out, readers of Atlantic are most likely part of the 9.9%, so are just flexing their privilege.

 

[RunningBum]

Early retirement helps young people get started by older people stepping aside and opening up a job.

There you go, I knew I did my part somehow.

 

[samclem]

As far as impact on retirement: Articles like this are important. They remind us that many people believe these things and will be motivated to "even-out" the economic situation among Americans. That can influence how a retiree organizes their financial affairs.

 

[dayzero]

I fail to see how our hard work, refusing to get into trouble, and LBYM ethics (even when the "means" were barely enough to get by) constitute something "toxic," as the article's opening lines have it.

From the article itself. I encourage you to read the whole thing, it's really a pretty incredible commentary.

In part what we have here is a listening problem. Americans have trouble telling the difference between a social critique and a personal insult. Thus, a writer points to a broad social problem with complex origins, and the reader responds with, “What, you want to punish me for my success?”

 

[Scuba]

Our nephew just graduated from a good state university with a double major in sports journalism and economics. He is debt free. He achieved that through a combination of scholarships, grants, limited family support, and work. He worked 30 hours/week his last couple of years and his employer hired him full time before he even graduated.

So with a good work ethic and an LBYM mentality, debt free college education can still be achieved.

 

[HadEnuff]

From the article itself. I encourage you to read the whole thing, it's really a pretty incredible commentary.

I don't feel guilty, although that seems to be the intent, for "my" success. Yes I had advantages, and the reason I put the "my" in quotes is because I didn't succeed without the help and sacrifices of generations before me.

IMO, the author conflates having successfully navigated the obstacle course, with becoming one of the obstacles. I'm not buying it.

 

[RunningBum]

From the article itself. I encourage you to read the whole thing, it's really a pretty incredible commentary.

Maybe you can post a suggestion or two from the article on how to fix these problems. What I see are a lot of potshots. Awareness of social issues are one thing, solutions are another.

 

[marko]

Now that I think of it, the writer's personal and family background, financial and life experience (past and present) could be that of half my classmates. A few of them of considerably more privilege.

I can tell you that none of them share his current position on the matter.

BS IMO.

 

[Clone]

Interesting article. The combination of self loathing combined with severe dislike of others is refreshing.

Anything that I might add in terms of first hand experience can be dismissed as being isolated instances or problems with perception. Anything added in generalities is too broad and needs more supporting evidence.

I see a trend today where people demand that you cite your sources for your statements. We then proceed to pick apart the data or the papers, because all data is cherry picked, and you only cite sources that support your opinion.

I understand where the path of least resistance lies- I need to stop trying to change the world, withdraw from public debate, and spend my time pondering simpler things. Like the nuances of a perfectly grilled steak.

Circa 1987: Several of us Americans were sitting in a small bar in Germany, with one of our colleagues from our German facility. A patron of the bar, having listened to the three of us casually talk in English, proceeded to address us for several minutes in what I believe to be a combination of French and German. He then finished his beer and left. I asked our German colleague what he had said. My friend, Juergen, replied: "He said to have a nice day."

I think that is what the author was trying to convey.

 

[Out of Steam]

FROM THE ARTICLE:

"In between the top 0.1 percent and the bottom 90 percent is a group that has been doing just fine. It has held on to its share of a growing pie decade after decade. And as a group, it owns substantially more wealth than do the other two combined."

I read the article and immediately thought the magazine had mischaracterized its own readership. The real top 10% is too busy making and enjoying their money to engage in the sort of navel gazing in this article.

Their real readership is probably, like me and a number of others here, below the top 10%, but within the top 20-25%. A group that tends to have more education than money, like mid-level bureaucrats, professors at non-prestigious colleges, or corporate mid-level staff.

 

[pb4uski]

I really disagree with that part of the article. I don't "worship" the ultra-rich and would not have wanted to do whatever it took them to get there (at least the ones who didn't inherit it)- whether it was years of 80-hour work weeks to make partner, building a business, or exploiting the huddled masses. Nor do I want a private plane or a house with 20 bathrooms. If I had more wealth, I'd probably split it between charity and leaving a bigger legacy.

+1... early in my career I was at the first step on a good ladder into the C-suite at a Fortune 500 company and made a conscious decision that I didn't want on to that hamster wheel.... the moving, traveling, politics and all were something that I could do but was not interested in doing... so I stepped away in favor of a less demanding path. Similar thing later when I was approached about partnership opportunity.

That said, I still worked hard, traveled a lot, worked long hours and was paid very well but not the grind that some others endured.

My advantage in life was my parents paying for my college education... the rest was my own doing and I don't feel gulity about it at all. I know many less privleged peers who did as well or better through hard work and good decisions. At the same time, I know of more privleged peers who squandered their opportunity.

I listened to a program on VPR with the author of this article.... just more liberal B.S. from The Atlantic.. nothing surprising.

 

[candrew]

+1... early in my career I was at the first step on a good ladder into the C-suite at a Fortune 500 company and made a conscious decision that I didn't want on to that hamster wheel.... the moving, traveling, politics and all were something that I could do but was not interested in doing... so I stepped away in favor of a less demanding path.

Reminds me of a former colleague who turned down our CEO's offer of a promo by stating, "my neck is too fat for a tie and my mouth too big for a board room."

 

[aja8888]

Boy, did my parents fail the test on this stuff. One made it to the 3rd grade (Mom). The other (Dad) worked in the coal mines at 14 years old and lied about his age to join the Navy and go to war which was safer than the coal mines. How the hell did I end up here?

 

[brett]

It is an interesting read.

What concerns me is the rising cost of education and the erosion of the middle class. We desperately need to keep basic post secondary education affordable for all.

 

[6miths]

From the first chart in the article, it shows from 1930 to 2010:
the near top 9.9% lost about 10%

the bottom 90% gained about 4%
the very top 0.1% stayed the same.


Seems to me the graph argues the opposite of the article, except the article cherry picks dates to make their arguments.


Basically since I am in the 9.9 % , I certainly realize I have lost 10% of the pie to the other groups, I hope the 90% each enjoy the extra 1% they grabbed from me.

This is what struck me as well. I think it written by the 0.1% who want to deflect attention from themselves and also try to include the 9.9% in the pot with them when it comes time for the revolution. Not falling for it!

 

[6miths]

Reminds me of a former colleague who turned down our CEO's offer of a promo by stating, "my neck is too fat for a tie and my mouth too big for a board room."

Love this one. Hope it's ok if I borrow it!

 

[pb4uski]

Reminds me of a former colleague who turned down our CEO's offer of a promo by stating, "my neck is too fat for a tie and my mouth too big for a board room."

The latter part was true in my case until I learned to bite my tongue.

 

[kcowan]

+1... early in my career I was at the first step on a good ladder into the C-suite at a Fortune 500 company and made a conscious decision that I didn't want on to that hamster wheel.... the moving, traveling, politics and all were something that I could do but was not interested in doing... so I stepped away in favor of a less demanding path. Similar thing later when I was approached about partnership opportunity.

That said, I still worked hard, traveled a lot, worked long hours and was paid very well but not the grind that some others endured.

I got to the C-suite and made a decision to step sideways for 6 years. Then I resumed it when conditions were better for me. Not a great place to be unless you can handle corporate politics. I could handle it but did not like it. Later, I found the politics in a smaller company easy to handle because I has been trained by the big guys.

My advantage in life was my parents paying for my college education... the rest was my own doing and I don't feel guilty about it at all. I know many less privileged peers who did as well or better through hard work and good decisions. At the same time, I know of more privileged peers who squandered their opportunity.

I used armed services to finance my education because my parents were poor. So I have always had a healthy respect for squeezing a dollar. It has paid off after 15 years of ER.

Now I am working on Blowing the Dough! Bought a Mercedes SUV yesterday. Yes it is used with 36000 KM. But what a sweat deal. Definitely a step up from my 2005 Ford Escape. The only problem is learning about all that automatic stuff! And its has a 3-year bumper to bumper warranty.

 

[pb4uski]

.....I used armed services to finance my education because my parents were poor. ...

Had my parents not been able to pay for my college then that would have been my plan. I'm pretty disciplined (now anyway, not so much back then) so I think it would have worked out well for me. Thank you for your service.

 

[aja8888]

I used armed services to finance my education because my parents were poor.

Same for me. That was my ticket out. Best thing that ever happened for me and I really didn't realize it at the time.

 

[marko]

As far as impact on retirement: Articles like this are important. They remind us that many people believe these things and will be motivated to "even-out" the economic situation among Americans. That can influence how a retiree organizes their financial affairs.

There you go!

I need to stop trying to change the world, withdraw from public debate, and spend my time pondering simpler things. Like the nuances of a perfectly grilled steak.

There it is!

 

[dayzero]

I did not really read this as a stereotypical left-wing classist guilt-trip us-vs-them propaganda piece. The argument is that calcified wealth strata and the inability to move between them jeopardizes society as a whole and this calcification has gotten worse over time. Selfishly, as part of the 9.9 I want to preserve a stable society for my own benefit, but idealistically I also want to live in a society where poverty is not so sticky across generations. (But mostly it's just the selfish reason.)

Maybe you can post a suggestion or two from the article on how to fix these problems. What I see are a lot of potshots. Awareness of social issues are one thing, solutions are another.

I thought he was pretty clear in the article about solutions, not just problems.

We need to peel our eyes away from the mirror of our own success and think about what we can do in our everyday lives for the people who aren’t our neighbors. We should be fighting for opportunities for other people’s children as if the future of our own children depended on it. It probably does.

One solution might be to give time and money in a way that targets social mobility. One idea off the top of my head - direct some charitable giving to donating an SAT prep course to someone that can't afford it. The SAT is largely a test of how well you prepared for the SAT, which is largely a function of how much money your parents have.

 

[Amethyst]

Not only did I read the whole thing, I posted a TL: DR, which is what the forum encourages people to do when they post a lengthy article. Nothing in the article struck me as dazzlingly insightful; indeed, I found it somewhat jejune.

From the article itself. I encourage you to read the whole thing, it's really a pretty incredible commentary.