awash in space aliens

[BoldPelikan]

At a party I made the acquaintance of yet another person who professed outlandish ideas about space aliens. As with other such recent acquaintances, these people are empl*yed in science and engineering fields, so one would assume they have enough basic scientific knowledge to rule out extraordinary claims. In this case, he insisted that space aliens from Saturn's moon Titan arrived on Earth thousands of years ago and taught the Greeks about various philosophical, scientific and engineering concepts. When I asked for supporting evidence, he said it was all lost in the thousands of years that have passed since. To him it is obvious aliens from Titan taught the Greeks because humans were not smart enough to have built things like the Parthenon without such help. When I asked why Titan and not some other location, he said Titan has an atmosphere, as if that alone justifies the claim.

In such situations I leave open the possibility the person is joking, but in my recent encounters these people have given no indication they are. They are completely serious and become agitated if I express doubt. With such defective logic, I wonder how they can maintain a j*b in a complex field. I'm curious about the origin of the recent growth in alien nonsense. Decades ago this sort of thing was prime Weekly World News turf. Is it now commonly discussed on some social media platform I do not use? Where is it coming from?

I can't speak to this specific individual's beliefs or theories, but there has been a huge shift in the past few years in the government's engagement with UAP. NASA has a committee studying these sightings and there have been Congressional hearings with testimony from military pilots. Do a little research and you will find that serious people are admitting there are objects in the sky that they cannot explain.

 

[Redbugdave]

My father was career Air Force and was stationed at Walker AFB (Roswell, NM) in the early 60s. I was 4 years old back in 61 when he was there. My father many many years later told me that there was something that really went on at Roswell and he said he had seen some foil like material he said came from the crash. I do believe what he said and he said very little about it. Did not talk much about things like that. He also never talked much about the Vietnam War, either. Just to make you think...what happens when we die? Is it poof or something else? What got the different ideas of religions/gods that man follows? Is it just our nature or from a deeper drive implanted in our genes? Other worldly stuff?

 

[Car-Guy]

I can't speak to this specific individual's beliefs or theories, but there has been a huge shift in the past few years in the government's engagement with UAP. NASA has a committee studying these sightings and there have been Congressional hearings with testimony from military pilots. Do a little research and you will find that serious people are admitting there are objects in the sky that they cannot explain.

Well we can all be sure if the US government knew anything about aliens visiting earth, they'd let us know the full unedited story and without delay.

 

[Lewis Clark]

Do a little research and you will find that serious people are admitting there are objects in the sky that they cannot explain.

Yes. And there always will be. If we see something we cannot explain, there is nothing to justify jumping to conclude we are seeing evidence of space aliens.

 

[Gumby]

Yes. And there always will be. If we see something we cannot explain, there is nothing to justify jumping to conclude we are seeing evidence of space aliens.

Exactly. "Cannot be explained" means cannot be explained one way or the other, not "therefore must be aliens".

 

[meleana]

I don’t believe in space aliens.

 

[CaptTom]

Well we can all be sure if the US government knew anything about aliens visiting earth, they'd let us know the full unedited story and without delay.

Maybe, but one thing we can be sure of is that if the government did know anything, someone would leak it.

 

[Car-Guy]

Maybe, but one thing we can be sure of is that if the government did know anything, someone would leak it.

Here's the problem with that. (IMO) At least half the "stuff" that is leaked, are outright lies, the other half is "spun/twisted" so bad they have very little resemblance to the truth remaining.

Anyway, it's possible for the government to keep secrets for a long time from the general public. e.g. Manhattan Project.

 

[WWDog]

Could be a smoke screen for the latest military vehicle (air breathing or something more advanced). Look to the past for hints of this type of obs-curation by the military. Before the gulf war, the F-117 was an unknown vehicle to the public and many military even in the US. The F-117 just appeared when needed. That was several years ago. What has been produced since then. Maybe our currently known vehicles are simply a smoke screen to aid in hiding much more advanced vehicles. It takes a leap of faith but there is at least one instance of this happening in the past.

 

[skipro33]

I don't know if aliens have made it to earth, but there are some things about science and history that strikes me as odd.
First, how were we able to put men on the moon 55 years ago but never returned until now and now it's taking many times the original effort to duplicate the stunt.
Second, that no one has any speculation of what is on the back side of the moon despite manned flight trips around it.

 

[braumeister]

Before the gulf war, the F-117 was an unknown vehicle to the public and many military even in the US. The F-117 just appeared when needed.

That's certainly true. Despite having very high levels of clearances, I knew nothing about it until it was put into use. (The military operates on a "need to know" basis.) I have a friend who worked on the F-117's development and even his wife didn't know anything about it. Secrets can certainly be kept.

But the stories about alien visitors have been around for so long without credible evidence that I feel they can safely be ignored.

America’s First UFO Sighting

 

[CaptTom]

I don't know if aliens have made it to earth, but there are some things about science and history that strikes me as odd.
First, how were we able to put men on the moon 55 years ago but never returned until now and now it's taking many times the original effort to duplicate the stunt.
Second, that no one has any speculation of what is on the back side of the moon despite manned flight trips around it.

First one is easy. We were in a race with the Soviets back then. Money was no object. They mostly used existing (if very new) technology and invented solutions to the immediate problems. I have no problem believing there are people who are a lot smarter than I.

Why are we going back now? Beside the fact that we've got cheaper options (think, SpaceX) but, admit it or not, we're in a new space race with China.

In other words, it's all about politics, not science, or exploration. Always was.

Second, I'm not sure I understand the question. Yes, we've had both manned and unmanned orbiters around the moon. We know generally what's on the far side. We have pictures. What we don't have are samples. Because the moon is tidally locked to face Earth, there chemistry on the far side is probably a bit different. We want to know more about that. Now that we have better communication capabilities, we (from several different countries) are sending landers. Nothing odd about that.

 

[Gumby]

First one is easy. We were in a race with the Soviets back then. Money was no object. ...

They were also far more willing to risk the lives of the astronauts back then.

 

[Maidensong]

I don't have a science background, but it took less than 5 minutes to learn that Titan's atmosphere is more than 90% nitrogen (as opposed to 78% here), with no free oxygen and it rains methane there! The atmospheric pressure is 50% higher than Earth's. I hardly think any sort of life there would be comfortable in our biosphere long enough to impart philosophical truths or architectural principles in flawless classical Greek.

 

[folivier]

Life as we know it probably couldn't exist there. But what we don't know is unfathomable.

 

[CaptTom]

Life as we know it probably couldn't exist there. But what we don't know is unfathomable.

This, to me, is the bigger question. If there's life out there, is it similar to life here, and if not, how different?

It's hard to imagine that we're the only life in the universe, just looking at the numbers and the fact that we're made of the most common elements in the universe. It's hard to imagine there's anything special about Earth, given the virtually infinite number of other planets.

But what about all those planets, moons or whatever which aren't like Earth? Is there some sort of chemistry which can develop into life in those environments? That's the question I'd love to have answered.

 

[WWDog]

That's certainly true. Despite having very high levels of clearances, I knew nothing about it until it was put into use. (The military operates on a "need to know" basis.) I have a friend who worked on the F-117's development and even his wife didn't know anything about it. Secrets can certainly be kept.

But the stories about alien visitors have been around for so long without credible evidence that I feel they can safely be ignored.

America’s First UFO Sighting

You missed the point! Yes alien space craft are a highly unlikely thing. I am saying that many of the sightings of "UFOs" could very likely be our own black programs mixed with the loony fringe providing a degree of clutter to make professions of sightings a laughing matter.

 

[skipro33]

First one is easy. We were in a race with the Soviets back then. Money was no object. They mostly used existing (if very new) technology and invented solutions to the immediate problems. I have no problem believing there are people who are a lot smarter than I.

Why are we going back now? Beside the fact that we've got cheaper options (think, SpaceX) but, admit it or not, we're in a new space race with China.

In other words, it's all about politics, not science, or exploration. Always was.

Second, I'm not sure I understand the question. Yes, we've had both manned and unmanned orbiters around the moon. We know generally what's on the far side. We have pictures. What we don't have are samples. Because the moon is tidally locked to face Earth, there chemistry on the far side is probably a bit different. We want to know more about that. Now that we have better communication capabilities, we (from several different countries) are sending landers. Nothing odd about that.

Following up on the moon:
We see craters on the moon side that faces the earth and it's orbit is locked so it doesn't spin and the same side faces earth all the time. So how is it that there are so many craters on the side that faces earth, but not craters on earth itself? I would think the size alone of the earth should have many if the moon, which is blocked by the earth, has so many.

 

[Lewis Clark]

Following up on the moon:
We see craters on the moon side that faces the earth and it's orbit is locked so it doesn't spin and the same side faces earth all the time. So how is it that there are so many craters on the side that faces earth, but not craters on earth itself? I would think the size alone of the earth should have many if the moon, which is blocked by the earth, has so many.

Most impact craters on the Earth's surface are eventually eroded away. The moon has no atmosphere or surface water, and therefore fewer eroding forces.

And many of the objects whose impacts might have caused a crater on Earth land in the ocean.

 

[Koolau]

Lots of stuff we can't explain but jumping immediately to "space aliens" is a bridge too far IMHO. What we do know about the possibility of interstellar space travel suggests it's not possible due to the long distances and being bounded by the laws of physics. True, it's possible we don't know ALL the laws of physics, but let's not jump to space aliens as our first back up.

Personal experience: I was flying a Cessna 150 at 8500 feet ca 1970. I saw a white object falling from the sky more or less in front of me but just off my right wing. Since I couldn't tell what it was, I don't know quite how far away it was or what size it was, but it appeared to come within a few hundred feet of my aircraft. It was clearly under the influence of terminal-velocity gravity. IOW, it was "falling" but not changing direction or speed. It most closely resembled a "snow ball" (and this was summer.) It would have needed to be several feet in diameter to be visible for as long as I was able to see it. The air was clear but turbulent. No, it wasn't blue.

I still have no idea what it was, but "space alien" never entered my mind. YMMV

 

[braumeister]

Most impact craters on the Earth's surface are eventually eroded away.

We got a big one, probably about 50 meters in diameter, only about 50,000 years ago in Arizona. Still pretty visible today:

 

[Redbugdave]

Lots of stuff we can't explain but jumping immediately to "space aliens" is a bridge too far IMHO. What we do know about the possibility of interstellar space travel suggests it's not possible due to the long distances and being bounded by the laws of physics. True, it's possible we don't know ALL the laws of physics, but let's not jump to space aliens as our first back up.

Personal experience: I was flying a Cessna 150 at 8500 feet ca 1970. I saw a white object falling from the sky more or less in front of me but just off my right wing. Since I couldn't tell what it was, I don't know quite how far away it was or what size it was, but it appeared to come within a few hundred feet of my aircraft. It was clearly under the influence of terminal-velocity gravity. IOW, it was "falling" but not changing direction or speed. It most closely resembled a "snow ball" (and this was summer.) It would have needed to be several feet in diameter to be visible for as long as I was able to see it. The air was clear but turbulent. No, it wasn't blue.

I still have no idea what it was, but "space alien" never entered my mind. YMMV

My thought was a meteor or some space junk.

 

[Redbugdave]

We got a big one, probably about 50 meters in diameter, only about 50,000 years ago in Arizona. Still pretty visible today:
View attachment 51137

I have a couple good sized meteorite chunks from that big one. I bought them from their gift shop about 50 years ago when they were selling them cheap. I was a kid back then.

 

[homestead]

We got a big one, probably about 50 meters in diameter, only about 50,000 years ago in Arizona. Still pretty visible today:

Is this the one pictured?
Barringer Crater, also known as “Meteor Crater,” is a 1,300-meter (0.8 mile) diameter, 174-meter (570-feet) deep hole in the flat-lying desert sandstones 30 kilometers (18.6 miles) west of Winslow, Arizona.

 

[Qs Laptop]

Following up on the moon:
We see craters on the moon side that faces the earth and it's orbit is locked so it doesn't spin and the same side faces earth all the time. So how is it that there are so many craters on the side that faces earth, but not craters on earth itself? I would think the size alone of the earth should have many if the moon, which is blocked by the earth, has so many.

Why do you think all meteorites that strike the moon must also be on a path that would include the earth in the trajectory?