Bathroom Renovation - Unexpected Events

[Vincenzo Corleone]

Some of you may remember that I'm in the process of going through a bathroom renovation. We're near the end of the project and all that remains are to have the final inspections done and some minor punch list items to be completed.

This morning, I had a most bizarre telephone conversation with the GC regarding more work that my wife and I wanted him to do. During the conversation, the GC became hostile and confrontational when I insisted that we sign a contract prior to starting this new work. It was something out of the Twilight Zone. I was flabbergasted. I told him that I was sorry he felt the need to be confrontational and, at the end of the conversation, we agreed that he should just finish up the current project, pack up, and be on his way.

Because we have the final inspections and punch list items that are yet to be done, it would probably mean the GC will be in my home again - something I do not feel comfortable with considering the hostility he displayed this morning. I'm prepared to forego the items on the punch list, but we have the issue of the final inspections.

Any suggestions on how to proceed?

 

[pacergal]

If it were me, and I had decided not to have him back for other work, I would
-not say anything and see how he is when he first returns
-try to put the previous conversation on the back burner, let him complete the first job and get injections passed
-move on and find someone else for the new jobs

Now, if he is a complete a**h** when he walks in, that changes things. You want him to finish his work, but I sure would be looking over his shoulder until it was done and passed inspection.

 

[ivinsfan]

It seems might there might be a little something missing here. Did you have a signed contract for your bathroom work? You said nothing that might be considered either confrontational or a criticism of his work? I'm not saying you did but something went wrong somewhere. EDit..I went back and read your thread about the drain so you and this contractor have history. Also you did comment here that you thought he probably collaborated with his BIL to hide the problem. So I think you two were both ready to move on from each other and this got reflected in your phone call. You had a contract for this project so what changed in the intervening time frame.



Not that you need to use a contractor you don't want but it seems like something went sideways. Phone calls can be that way. Perhaps he remembers it differently.



Have you interacted the man one on one before?



Now that you have had some time to think about what do think would be the solution to getting in inspections completed. Im pretty sure it wouldn't involve more confrontations.

 

[OldShooter]

What @pacergal said, but I would arrange to not be alone when he comes back. Even if there is no physical danger, there is still high risk of a he-said/she-said dispute down the road. I would not make final payment until the city inspection is signed off. I would also make sure I had lien waivers from his major suppliers and subs as well as from him. Check rules with someone who knows your state laws. Maybe the state atty general consumer help line.

Another thing to consider is to make an audio recording of any discussions when he returns. This is as simple as turning on your phone's recorder app and putting your phone in a top shirt pocket.

Re his attitude, maybe he has big personal or financial problems that are affecting him. Maybe at least mentally admit the possibility. As @pacergal suggests, you can ignore your ugly conversation on his next visit.

 

[njhowie]

I think we need more details:

1. What was the additional work, and what kind of price tag are we talking about?

2. Did you have a signed contract for the current job?

3. He was going to give you a written estimate for the new work, wasn't he? What more are you looking for in your proposed signed contract?

4. Did you explain to him why you wanted a signed contract? Did he give details of why he was objecting to a signed contract?

 

[Vincenzo Corleone]

I think we need more details:

1. What was the additional work, and what kind of price tag are we talking about?

2. Did you have a signed contract for the current job?

3. He was going to give you a written estimate for the new work, wasn't he? What more are you looking for in your proposed signed contract?

4. Did you explain to him why you wanted a signed contract? Did he give details of why he was objecting to a signed contract?

1. Renovation of a half bath; price tag is probably small potatoes to the GC

2. Yes, and there were clear communications and understanding that we'd have a separate contract for the half bath once the full bath was near completion

3. He provided us with a written estimate, and he supplied us with the contract. He informed my wife that he'd stop by this morning to have a contract signing. Instead, he sent some of his team to start demo work.

4. He fully understands the need for a signed contract and he had no problem signing the contract for the full bath reno. During the recent phone conversation, I had the workers at my front door ready to do the demo work on the half bath but told them that I was expecting the contract be signed first and told them not to start work. I told the GC on the phone that I was expecting - per his conversation with my wife - that he'd be the one to stop by for the contract signing this morning. He didn't like that I had a problem with having the demo work start prior to contract singing, saying that he's busy and that "there's always a problem [with you]". Note: during the reno of the full bath, I had expressed, diplomatically, some dissatisfaction with some of the work, and he always had an excuse ready, to which I responded - being the passive type - by just nodding and letting the matter go.

 

[njhowie]

1. Renovation of a half bath; price tag is probably small potatoes to the GC

2. Yes, and there were clear communications and understanding that we'd have a separate contract for the half bath once the full bath was near completion

3. He provided us with a written estimate, and he supplied us with the contract. He informed my wife that he'd stop by this morning to have a contract signing. Instead, he sent some of his team to start demo work.

4. He fully understands the need for a signed contract and he had no problem signing the contract for the full bath reno. During the recent phone conversation, I had the workers at my front door ready to do the demo work on the half bath but told them that I was expecting the contract be signed first and told them not to start work. I told the GC on the phone that I was expecting - per his conversation with my wife - that he'd be the one to stop by for the contract signing this morning. He didn't like that I had a problem with having the demo work start prior to contract singing, saying that he's busy and that "there's always a problem [with you]". Note: during the reno of the full bath, I had expressed, diplomatically, some dissatisfaction with some of the work, and he always had an excuse ready, to which I responded - being the passive type - by just nodding and letting the matter go.

Thanks for that. I would simply let them finish current work, put the half bath on hold for a while, and find someone else to do it.

 

[Vincenzo Corleone]

Thanks for that. I would simply let them finish current work, put the half bath on hold for a while, and find someone else to do it.

That's the plan. The current issue is having to have him in my home again to finish up the first project after his outburst. I'd like to avoid it - just forget about the punch list items and getting the inspectors to inspect without the GC being present - but am finding it difficult to see a way around it.

 

[Jerry1]

There’s no way around it. Stay quite and hope he does the same. Don’t be alone in the house. Don’t walk away from the punch list or the inspections. Hold your head up and see this through. Good luck.

 

[ivinsfan]

Well good luck hope it all works out. It sounds like the contractor had a timing mixup and you called him out as untrustworthy. It's probably best you both move on.


You selected the guy to do a second job so your obviously didn't have that many problems with his work.

 

[ivinsfan]

There’s no way around it. Stay quite and hope he does the same. Don’t be alone in the house. Don’t walk away from the punch list or the inspections. Hold your head up and see this through. Good luck.

Don't be alone in the house, good gravy.. OP started out by saying he had a bizarre phone call with the contractor. There was a lot more to it. No reason on earth to expect physical violence from the contractor. They should both hold up their heads and just finish it out.

 

[Walt34]

Another thing to consider is to make an audio recording of any discussions when he returns. This is as simple as turning on your phone's recorder app and putting your phone in a top shirt pocket.

Be careful about that and know your state's laws on recordings beforehand. Some states have laws requiring that all parties present be made aware that the conversation is being recorded.

 

[OldShooter]

Be careful about that and know your state's laws on recordings beforehand. Some states have laws requiring that all parties present be made aware that the conversation is being recorded.

Yes. Most states seem to be one-party consent (https://www.mwl-law.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/RECORDING-CONVERSATIONS-CHART.pdf) as is our state. Regardless, if this is expected to be a really tense situation I would record and then consult an attorney before doing anything with the recording beyond refreshing my memory.

 

[Koolau]

I know so many folks who have had issues with their GCs as well as individual contractors. These business people are stressed as they grab all the w*rk they can and then don't have any way to complete it in a timely fashion. They are on the leading edge of price increases and that has to be an irritant at the very least. I'm sure these folks have also had "issues" with clients trying to get more than they bargained for. Could just be you caught the GC on a bad day.

BUT, do protect yourself, legally and personally (Have folks there when you deal with said GC.)

 

[Jerry1]

Don't be alone in the house, good gravy.. OP started out by saying he had a bizarre phone call with the contractor. There was a lot more to it. No reason on earth to expect physical violence from the contractor. They should both hold up their heads and just finish it out.

I wasn’t suggesting physical violence but a verbal confrontation seems possible and having someone else there might help to keep that from happening or keep it on the calmer side.

 

[rk911]

if the OP's building dept. inspectors are anything like the inspectors in my town his final inspection will be over in minutes. over the last 20-years we've replaced windows, remodeled every room in the house, installed a stand-by genny, upgraded to 200-amp electrical service, installed new sod, run underground wiring for an 50-amp connection in the driveway for our motorhome, had a new roof put on, replaced a blacktop drive, installed a sprinkler system, demolished a rickety back-yard shed, poured a foundation and built a proper shed.

granted, some of this work did not need a permit or city inspections but a lot of it did. i can truthfully say that none of our first or final inspections took more than 10-min, many were a lot less than that. the inspector on our shed project was not a city inspector but a guy contracted by the city and he spent maybe 3-minutes admiring the shed. he told me that he had 50-inspections to complete that day in 7-hours.

 

[misanman]

none of our first or final inspections took more than 10-min

Our experience is that the inspection depends a lot on how well the inspector knows the contractor and whether he trusts their work. Our most recent inspection was over in a few minutes and the inspector more or less came out and said that he knew the contractor's work would be "by the book".

 

[Aerides]

Take photos of the punch list and proceed as if nothing happened. Get the job finished. Be there for the inspection, have your list at hand.

I agree that it seems if you had discussed a whole extra job (even small), to turn up with a demo crew before contract seems very odd. Likely, he's now angry because he has to pay that team anyway. Still, very unprofessional.

But the odds that would turn to violence...seems like a leap. Some people just go from zero to 60 with communication. You've worked with him for months, I would not be afraid now. Probably don't have him by without your wife also there, but still.

And practice your best "Now get the hell out of my house!" (yes I'm kinda joking on that) and start looking for another team for future work.

 

[Rianne]

Finding a new GC is easier said than done. Are you happy with the work he's done so far? Before the confrontation, did everything go pretty well? I get you have a professional relationship and it should stay that way. But you aren't aware of stresses in his life and yes that shouldn't matter.

We had a major renovation. Bathrooms, a major reconfiguration of our floorplan, floors, walls ripped out, drilling through brick to create a sunroom. It took months. There were a few times things got heated. But our GC did quality work. We knew that from previous jobs they did. One of the workers had relationship issues at home and he'd talk about them once in a while. Was in a bad mood every so often. He had a meltdown at one point. I look at this situation entirely differently than the previous posters. Give your GC a break. You're dealing with people dealing with life. IMO.

BTW, we are thrilled with the final product. Excellent work. And we keep in touch with the GC. He came over a few years after all the work and fixed a few minor things, no charge.

 

[OldShooter]

There's no need to worry about the inspection. It would be crazy too pay this GC prior to the inspection and really that's the end of the inspection issue. The lean waivers are more important probably. If the GC has not paid the Subs the OP may well end up paying twice for the same work. Big problem.

 

[skipro33]

The law state you both need a contract in order to have him do the work. Hence the term "CONTRACTOR". What part of his job title doesn't he understand as a General Contractor anyway? If he gets out of line, remind him that you need to discuss the need for a contract with the licensing board for contractors and ask if he has a spare business card you can use.
Always remember who the boss is here (you), so act like the boss and he your employee. Something simple like, "I'm writing the checks here, so we'll do this my way."
If an employee started to back talk or tried to argue with me on the phone, I would simply tell him, "I require a contract. Have it ready to sign before any work begins or there will be no work. Have a good day." Then hang up.
I would also require this contractor to finish this job to your satisfaction and don't feel intimidated by having him back after the first confrontation. If he starts in again, tell him this isn't a debate or negotiation, finish the work or there won't be final payment. If he tries to argue again, walk away.
Also get him to sign a mechanical lien release. This protects you in case he fails to pay any subcontractors who could put a lien on your home for non-payment. You can find several versions of release forms on the internet. Print one out and have him sign it before making final payment. In fact, any contract should include language that a release of mechanical lien is required before final payment.
Just remember, you are the boss, not him.

 

[Aerides]

Note: during the reno of the full bath, I had expressed, diplomatically, some dissatisfaction with some of the work, and he always had an excuse ready, to which I responded - being the passive type - by just nodding and letting the matter go.

Ouch. Sorry to hear this. I am the first to take the path of least resistance, so I understand the impulse, but when I had issues with my GC on a full house reno I had to go head-to-head with him once or twice, and fight down the excuses and insist on a fix. After a blunder on his part that cost him a full day of rework and lost materials, he made zero steps or decisions without me there for approval. Which was perfect, I basically stepped in as the PM, even though I was still working full time.

At this point I wonder why you'd even have considered him for a 2nd job, but at least now you won't. But do shop around a lot for his replacement for future work.

 

[ivinsfan]

Ouch. Sorry to hear this. I am the first to take the path of least resistance, so I understand the impulse, but when I had issues with my GC on a full house reno I had to go head-to-head with him once or twice, and fight down the excuses and insist on a fix. After a blunder on his part that cost him a full day of rework and lost materials, he made zero steps or decisions without me there for approval. Which was perfect, I basically stepped in as the PM, even though I was still working full time.

At this point I wonder why you'd even have considered him for a 2nd job, but at least now you won't. But do shop around a lot for his replacement for future work.

It doesn't sound as though these two were meant to work together. But as OP was ready and willing to sign a second contract with the man, I'm gonna to say some of this is after the fact revising stuff.



Stuff is going to come up and whether something is a reason or and excuse or such and such is going to be open to debate, hopefully debated and them fixed.



In this case it sounds like neither side ended up happy so I guess that's fair.



On the shopping around a lot where we live if you want something done in the next decade there's not much shopping to do. You take who you can get and hope for the best.

 

[ivinsfan]

Well Skip I'm guessing in today's world using language like that with an independent businessman with more work then they can handle will get you put on the "never mind I don't need your business" list.



We've had countless dealings with independent businessmen for wide variety of jobs and never once did we think we were the "boss". We pay the bill but it's a mutual endeavor with respect on both sides.



We have saved so much money taking the high road, gotten excellent work done, always get quick responses and good prices. Once we needed a random combine part ASAP new was beastly expensive and wouldn't show up for over a week. The shop owner said that's not gonna work, drive out here, I have a used combine in the back and during lunch you and I can pull that part off the machine. Gave it to us cheap and back combining the same day. I've also heard that same guy refuse to take a call from a certain farmer saying I'm not talking to him today I don't need that abuse.

 

[Vincenzo Corleone]

The law state you both need a contract in order to have him do the work. Hence the term "CONTRACTOR". What part of his job title doesn't he understand as a General Contractor anyway? If he gets out of line, remind him that you need to discuss the need for a contract with the licensing board for contractors and ask if he has a spare business card you can use.
Always remember who the boss is here (you), so act like the boss and he your employee. Something simple like, "I'm writing the checks here, so we'll do this my way."
If an employee started to back talk or tried to argue with me on the phone, I would simply tell him, "I require a contract. Have it ready to sign before any work begins or there will be no work. Have a good day." Then hang up.
I would also require this contractor to finish this job to your satisfaction and don't feel intimidated by having him back after the first confrontation. If he starts in again, tell him this isn't a debate or negotiation, finish the work or there won't be final payment. If he tries to argue again, walk away.
Also get him to sign a mechanical lien release. This protects you in case he fails to pay any subcontractors who could put a lien on your home for non-payment. You can find several versions of release forms on the internet. Print one out and have him sign it before making final payment. In fact, any contract should include language that a release of mechanical lien is required before final payment.
Just remember, you are the boss, not him.

Regarding the first boldfaced line above - I do that and he gets all passive-aggressive, defensive, and he could potentially screw up some part of the work such that it remains undiscovered until he's long-gone. I'm not sure where you're from, but in my part of the world, being too much of a hardass doesn't usually end up good for anyone. You know the expression, "It's easier to catch flies with honey than with vinegar". I've seen the jobs the contractor gets. The money he's getting from me is insignificant in comparison. He doesn't need me. If a contractor has been in the business long enough, he knows all the tricks to tilt the balance of power in his favor.

Regarding the second boldface - unfortunately, my wife and I were unaware of lien wavers prior to signing the contract and as a result did not have it included as a requirement in the contract. Please tell me how we can "get him to sign" a mechanical lien release that wasn't required in the contract - I'd love to know. If we withhold payment, he'll most definitely put a lien on my home, or cause some sort of legal trouble.