Bird Flu Redux

[TromboneAl]

OK, the CDC has now released the symptoms of bird flu. Watch out for these:

1. High fever
2. Congestion
3. An irresistable urge to crap on your car's windshield

 

[TromboneAl]

The current bird flu has been around since 1997. I wonder if the chances that it will mutate to allow person-to-person transmission is any greater than it has been over the last 8 years. I guess there are more flu organisms out there now than in 1997.

I'm now more convinced that though the threat is real, it is being blown out of proportion by the media and the low-approval-rating government.

 

[Austin_Explorer]

Our office manager is kind of a germ phobe.  She distributed to all a product called Purell instant hand sanitizer, that purports to kill 99.99% of "germs."  So is this a meaningless product or will it really help the spread of colds and flu? 

I can't stand the current obsession with killing all bacteria, like that is really an option.  What people needs to realize is that "germs" are EVERYWHERE, all of the time.  And of the bacteria that the products kill, 99.99% are perfectly harmless and the other 0.01% could just as easily be removed through normal soap and water.

Top it all of with the long term side effect of more quickly making useless the arsenal of antibiotics that we have to use in grave situations because everyday use has allowed the bacteria a greater chance of developing an resistance to them.

So we're trading life saving applications for short term psychological comfort for hysterical parents.  This doesn't make sense to me.

I'll say it again.  Germs are EVERYWHERE.  There would be no life on Earth without bacteria.  Trying to get rid of all of it is a fool's errand.

 

[wabmester]

Germs are EVERYWHERE.

Aaaahhhhh! Run for your lives!

AE is right. We're just making germs stronger by taking half-measures. Pretty soon, a KILLER GERM will deliver a knock-out blow, but I don't know if it'll be the current scare or a different one. Some viruses are kind of like termites. They can take up residence inside your structural components and live a happy life while they either eat away at your brain, cause chronic inflamation to your heart, or drive your immune system bonkers.

Those are the viruses that scare me. I just hope one doesn't become airborne.

 

[retire@40]

And of the bacteria that the products kill, 99.99% are perfectly harmless and the other 0.01% could just as easily be removed through normal soap and water.... There would be no life on Earth without bacteria.  Trying to get rid of all of it is a fool's errand.

I don't run to the bathroom after every time I shake someone's hand, but if I'm near a hand sanitizer, I'll use some.

I notice they have hand sanitizer in the hallways of hospitals now too.

I don't feel I have to wipe out all the bacteria. Just my enemies.

 

[SteveR]

Bacteria, yeasts, mold and viruses are all part of our world.  As has already been said, life as we know it would not exist or continue without them.  Our culture has become so anti-bacterial that we feel the need to sanitize, sterilize, and disinfect every thing in our environment.  This is not only a waste of money, time and energy, it is unhealthy.  Our immune systems work best when it is challenged to work.  White blood cells and antibodies are all created only when the body is actively fighting a potential infection or exposure to some antigen.

In a world filled with disinfectants, we are creating an unnatural eccosystem where we are causing a natural selection of the strongest germs.  These will be more difficult to kill through chemical means and may also be more difficult to control through the misuse of antibiotics.  The skin eating streps. are an good example of this.  

Respiratory viruses are the ones most commonly seen in winter as we tend to congregate in closed spaces.  The viruses will spread through the air and through direct contact.  

Most surgical masks will not stop viruses so don't kid yourself.  

Tamiflu does have some not so good possible side effects and it is not 100% effective.

Purell is basically alcohol and is only effective against a small number of bacteria.  It does not sterilize it only disinfects those bacteria that are sensitive to alcohol and many are not.  Plain handwashing with soap is just about as effective.  

 

[Martha]

Clean house syndrome.

We become so worried about germs that we don't develop the required immunities through exposure.

Like my dad used to say, "everyone needs to eat a peck of dirt."

 

[wabmester]

And don't get me started on prions. Ahhhhh! Run for your lives!

 

[SteveR]

Prions and tigers and bears........Oh My!

 

[Ol_Rancher]

Clean house syndrome. 

We become so worried about germs that we don't develop the required immunities through exposure.

Like my dad used to say, "everyone needs to eat a peck of dirt."

Martha,
             Did your Dad really advocate that everyone eat 8 dry quarts; 1/4 bushel; or 0.3111 cubic feet of dirt? If so how long did it take you?

 

[haha]

I can't stand the current obsession with killing all bacteria, like that is really an option.  What people needs to realize is that "germs" are EVERYWHERE, all of the time.  And of the bacteria that the products kill, 99.99% are perfectly harmless and the other 0.01% could just as easily be removed through normal soap and water.

Top it all of with the long term side effect of more quickly making useless the arsenal of antibiotics that we have to use in grave situations because everyday use has allowed the bacteria a greater chance of developing an resistance to them.

So we're trading life saving applications for short term psychological comfort for hysterical parents.  This doesn't make sense to me.

I'll say it again.  Germs are EVERYWHERE.  There would be no life on Earth without bacteria.  Trying to get rid of all of it is a fool's errand.

You would be right if Purell were an antibiotic. It isn't, it is alcohol plus moisturizers. One can kill germs all day long with this, and it will have no effect on a virus's or bacterium's genetic code, hence no effect on it's susceptibility to anti-microbial agents.

This is simple hygiene. This is why you are supposed to cover your mouth and nose when you sneeze; also why you are supposed to wash hands thoroughly after using the bathroom.

And incidentally, rubbing Purell on your hands is not trying to rid the earth of bacteria, it is only trying to lower the number of pathogenic microorganisms on your hands.

http://www.purell.com/faq.aspx#q1

Ha

 

[wabmester]

Ha, I'm pretty sure evolution doesn't care what bactericide you use. If a few of the *large* population of bugs on your hands include any hardy resistant critters that survive your mass-kill attempt, you have selected for that mutation or species. You are playing god with Purell. Use it wisely.

 

[haha]

Ha, I'm pretty sure evolution doesn't care what bactericide you use.    If a few of the *large* population of bugs on your hands include any hardy resistant critters that survive your mass-kill attempt, you have selected for that mutation or species.   You are playing god with Purell.  Use it wisely. 

That's good point Wab. But could alcohol be so quantitatively more effective at indiscriminatingly killing organisms that it might almost make a categorical difference?

But damn, I guess when you get right down to it, there is nowhere to hide.

Ha

 

[Danny]

Last year the kids and I shook John Kerry's hand.
We then went to eat chinese.
Before we ate, I told them we better wash up real good because we just shook Kerry's hand.
All the hands a politician shakes during a campaign, how do they stay healthy?

 

[wabmester]

All the hands a politician shakes during a campaign, how do they stay healthy?

They don't rub their eyes, pick their nose, or lick their fingers.   And they all have one of these:

 

[bruce1]

Martha,
             Did your Dad really advocate that everyone eat 8 dry quarts; 1/4 bushel; or 0.3111 cubic feet of dirt? If so how long did it take you?

Mine did... not sure if I'm done yet. He gave me till I died and hopefully I still have 30 or 40 years to go.

Bruce

 

[Jarhead*]

That's good point Wab. But could alcohol be so quantitatively more effective at indiscriminatingly killing organisms that it might almost make a categorical difference?

Ha: I think you're onto something here.

Jack Nicholson to Shirley MacLaine. (He was, well, the usual Jack, and she played an up-tight widow that he finally convinced to go to lunch with him.

"Give us a couple of dry double martinees, jack told the waiter." Shirley MacLaine responed with " I rarely drink, and certainly don't drink at this hour".
"Trust me on this little point", Jack responded, you need about 3 drinks to kill that bug that has crawled up your a--!

Seemed to work, as they had great time after that.

 

[Outtahere]

Jarhead, that was THE best line of that movie!!!

My dh is always washing his hands, I do to but not to the degree he does. Funny though seems like every winter he gets sick and I stay healthy.

Cj

 

[MJ]

My dh is always washing his hands, I do to but not to the degree he does. Funny though seems like every winter he gets sick and I stay healthy.

He must be killing all those "good" germs living on his hands.

 

[Austin_Explorer]

You would be right if Purell were an antibiotic. It isn't, it is alcohol plus moisturizers. One can kill germs all day long with this, and it will have no effect on a virus's or bacterium's genetic code, hence no effect on it's susceptibility to anti-microbial agents.

My comments weren't directed at Purell per se, but rather the wide spread near-hysteria with germs from which many companies benefit. Purell may be a fine product, but it also benefits from the mania.

 

[Outtahere]

Purell is a great product for when you can't wash your hands but to be using it all day long instead of or in addition to is over the top.

 

[HFWR]

Unless the first washing was with "Brown 25"...

 

[haha]

My dh is always washing his hands, I do to but not to the degree he does. Funny though seems like every winter he gets sick and I stay healthy.
Cj

It's because you keep putting your dirty hands all over the poor guy. Have Mercy Honey! 

Ha

 

[haha]

Jack Nicholson to Shirley MacLaine.  (He was, well, the usual Jack, and she played an up-tight widow that he finally convinced to go to lunch with him.

"Give us a couple of dry double martinees, jack told the waiter."  Shirley MacLaine responed with " I rarely drink, and certainly don't drink at this hour".
"Trust me on this little point", Jack responded, you need about 3 drinks to kill that bug that has crawled up your a--!

Seemed to work, as they had great time after that.

LOL! Thanks for the tip Jarhead, I have to rent that movie.

Ha

 

[TromboneAl]

The thing that bugs me about the media is that they leave out the most important piece of critical information. They say "If the virus mutates in such a way that it can spread from person to person, we might have a pandemic." But they don't say what the chances of that mutation are estimated to me.

If the virus mutates in such a way that it can drive a car and operate automatic weapons, we'll be in trouble too, but the chances of that happening are pretty small.