Canada Wildfires

[madatrub]

I think it best to tell people, in effect "an N-95 mask may protect you from the smoke particles if it is fit properly. The only way to be sure it fits is to have a fit test. If it doesn't fit properly, then it is like not wearing a mask at all."

I agree.

 

[Koolau]

You are right about that, but I have heard that very same sort of language from a number of doctors.

I think it best to tell people, in effect "an N-95 mask may protect you from the smoke particles if it is fit properly. The only way to be sure it fits is to have a fit test. If it doesn't fit properly, then it is like not wearing a mask at all." Then they can decide. Do they proceed to act in the absence of full information (i.e. - does the mask really fit) or not? They may conclude that since they have no assurance that the mask fits, they will just go without and still go buy cat food. Or they may be willing to take the chance that the mask fits even though it hasn't been tested. In either case, it is not the mask itself that increases their risk.

I happen to believe that they are going to go to the store no matter what. Would you forbid them from trying their luck in a N-95 that may or may not fit, or would you mandate that they be entirely unmasked?

I actually DID prohibit some empl*yees from w*rking certain j*bs at Megacrop because they had not been fit tested or had failed fit testing (not just N-95 masks in some cases.)

I agree that for tree smoke, for a few days, it probably is not a big deal except for folks who already know not to go outside due to issues they already know about.

 

[Irishgirlyc58]

One has severe asthma. They get told through some flyer from their "public health expert" that you can just slap on a N95. They run out of cat food and HAVE to run to the store. They put on a N95 that provides no protection because they have not been fit test. They die from a severe asthma attack despite THINKING they were protected.

Their risks just increased. The think they are safe. They are not. If they knew their N95 wouldnt protect them and knew they shouldnt go to the store because of that, they would be safe inside their home.

What exactly is your expertise?
How many evacuations shelters have you overseen for people fleeing for their lives from wildfires?
Please, enlighten me. [emoji849]

 

[Sunset]

One has severe asthma. They get told through some flyer from their "public health expert" that you can just slap on a N95. They run out of cat food and HAVE to run to the store. They put on a N95 that provides no protection because they have not been fit test. They die from a severe asthma attack despite THINKING they were protected.

Their risks just increased. The think they are safe. They are not. If they knew their N95 wouldnt protect them and knew they shouldnt go to the store because of that, they would be safe inside their home.

No, they will go with or without a mask.
They are not going to starve their cat to death.

Better they put on a mask, check it is fitting tightly as best they can determine and go. This is not rocket science.

OSHA has rules, companies have to follow it or be fined. That is why fit tests are mandated in certain situations for companies to follow.

 

[Koolau]

What exactly is your expertise?
How many evacuations shelters have you overseen for people fleeing for their lives from wildfires?
Please, enlighten me. [emoji849]

Not sure I understand the issue here. I don't recall anyone suggesting we're running from Canadian fires. They're 1000 miles north. Did I miss something about shelters. If I missed it, I apologize. I thought we were just trying to deal with the smoke from distant fires in an adequate manner.

It's true that many of those allergic or with conditions such as COPD or asthma won'd die from exposure to the current smoke. BUT a few will. Many, many more will get really sick and some will end up in the hospital.

For those people, I'd say, "forget the N-95 and stay home and find some scraps for the cat to eat." Don't go out. The cat will probably destroy your artificial flower arrangement, but she won't starve.

IF you really, really want to go out, be certain that you have an N-95 mask. Be certain you know how to don and doff it. Be certain you have been fit tested to see if your facial structure allows it to w*rk. Be certain you have no facial hair (just about any facial hair). THEN, still, don't go out! Unless you need to get to a doctor for a life-threatening condition.

Even N-95 masks are only designed to catch particles larger than about .3 microns. Many smoke particles are 1/5 that size or even smaller. Now, it's true that N-95s WILL catch a lot of smaller particles than 0.3 microns because of electrostatic attraction that builds on the material. BUT the smaller the particles, the more will get through. Keep in mind that the "95" stand for percent of particles larger than about 0.3 microns will be captured - so 5%, by definition will get through. If it's a "400" day out like it was in NYC, that means you're still effectively having a "20" day inside your mask - if you did everything right and the particles were all 0.3 or bigger.

Life is a crap shoot and it's your life. Go out if you want to, but understand the odds before you decide the cat will really starve in the next couple of days.

 

[Koolau]

No, they will go with or without a mask.
They are not going to starve their cat to death.

Better they put on a mask, check it is fitting tightly as best they can determine and go. This is not rocket science.

OSHA has rules, companies have to follow it or be fined. That is why fit tests are mandated in certain situations for companies to follow.

Exactly. The difference between the person in the w*rkplace and the person going for cat-food is implied consent. The person seeking cat food has implied consent to not wear a mask, to wear a mask that might not fit, or be fit tested to see if a mask is suitable (or better yet, to stay home.)

Empl*yees have no such implied consent. OSHA demands that empl*yers enforce OSHA laws and rules regarding such things as personal protective equipment. If empl*yers fail to assure empl*yee compliance, the empl*yer may be fined - even jailed. Heh, heh, all that happens to the empl*yee is s/he gets FIRED by the empl*yer who just got fined!

 

[target2019]

Whatever you can quickly put on your face before going out is a good idea.

8-Jun-2023, we're down to 100 in South Jerz. Forecast is to jump up to 150.

Feels good to get a cool, less-polluted, not-as-severe break for awhile.

 

[njhowie]

Whatever you can quickly put on your face before going out is a good idea.

8-Jun-2023, we're down to 100 in South Jerz. Forecast is to jump up to 150.

Feels good to get a cool, less-polluted, not-as-severe break for awhile.

We're at 91 at this moment. I'm throwing on the running clothes to get a quick run in before things potentially get worse later on.

 

[Andre1969]

It's amazing how quickly that haze seems to have blown out of here. Looking outside, it actually looks normal today, whereas yesterday it had sort of a post-apocalyptic look to it. I just checked the air quality index online...looks like we're currently at 72 (Moderate/yellow). They're forecasting orange (100-150) later today, but then tomorrow, just yellow (50-100)

 

[RunningBum]

Just dropped to 99 here, down from 110 when I checked earlier. I'm taking the week off running anyway after a marathon last weekend, but I'm going to do some yard work now, and probably take a walk after lunch.

 

[Kings over Queens]

It's amazing how quickly that haze seems to have blown out of here.)

Was thinking the same thing. it's beautiful here in Monmouth county NJ today, after 3 days of pretty ugly stuff.

We were in WY in August 2021 and experienced similar situation, only worse (In my view) due to the California fires. We were at 14,000 and it was all but impossible to breath.

 

[madatrub]

What exactly is your expertise?
How many evacuations shelters have you overseen for people fleeing for their lives from wildfires?
Please, enlighten me. [emoji849]

My expertise is in fluid dynamics, fluid flow, and mass transfer. My degrees are in BS/MS CheE/EnvE. and I'm not interested in engaging in straw man arguments.

"Public health experts" telling people to wear a mask to protect them is a recipe that gets people killed. Arguing acute wildfire response with what's going on in the NEUS are entirely different matters.

 

[Irishgirlyc58]

Not sure I understand the issue here. I don't recall anyone suggesting we're running from Canadian fires. They're 1000 miles north. Did I miss something about shelters. If I missed it, I apologize. I thought we were just trying to deal with the smoke from distant fires in an adequate manner.

It's true that many of those allergic or with conditions such as COPD or asthma won'd die from exposure to the current smoke. BUT a few will. Many, many more will get really sick and some will end up in the hospital.

For those people, I'd say, "forget the N-95 and stay home and find some scraps for the cat to eat." Don't go out. The cat will probably destroy your artificial flower arrangement, but she won't starve.

IF you really, really want to go out, be certain that you have an N-95 mask. Be certain you know how to don and doff it. Be certain you have been fit tested to see if your facial structure allows it to w*rk. Be certain you have no facial hair (just about any facial hair). THEN, still, don't go out! Unless you need to get to a doctor for a life-threatening condition.

Even N-95 masks are only designed to catch particles larger than about .3 microns. Many smoke particles are 1/5 that size or even smaller. Now, it's true that N-95s WILL catch a lot of smaller particles than 0.3 microns because of electrostatic attraction that builds on the material. BUT the smaller the particles, the more will get through. Keep in mind that the "95" stand for percent of particles larger than about 0.3 microns will be captured - so 5%, by definition will get through. If it's a "400" day out like it was in NYC, that means you're still effectively having a "20" day inside your mask - if you did everything right and the particles were all 0.3 or bigger.

Life is a crap shoot and it's your life. Go out if you want to, but understand the odds before you decide the cat will really starve in the next couple of days.

It’s about having experience dealing with actual human behavior.
You can put anything in a formula and say that this is the answer. And then there’s how humans actually react and behave.
They typically don’t read the formula.

 

[Koolau]

It’s about having experience dealing with actual human behavior.
You can put anything in a formula and say that this is the answer. And then there’s how humans actually react and behave.
They typically don’t read the formula.

Well, I have to grant you that. Humans are their own best advocates and sometimes their own worst enemies. Still, I think educating people with actual scientific facts is a good thing. Not everyone will pay attention, but at least we have tried. And some even listen and believe.

I used to teach this stuff to students "with minds full of mush." I eventually got compliments from some of them after they were empl*yed. It was gratifying as you never know what sinks in when you teach.

 

[Irishgirlyc58]

Well, I have to grant you that. Humans are their own best advocates and sometimes their own worst enemies. Still, I think educating people with actual scientific facts is a good thing. Not everyone will pay attention, but at least we have tried. And some even listen and believe.

I used to teach this stuff to students "with minds full of mush." I eventually got compliments from some of them after they were empl*yed. It was gratifying as you never know what sinks in when you teach.

That’s what public health tries to do- provide people with the information to keep them healthy based on what they will do.
So if a person won’t do A that keeps them healthiest, will they do B, if not B then what about C.
It’s not about telling them what to do because most aren’t listening. It’s about giving them options along with the information and letting them decide.
Sometimes they decide to roll the dice and that’s their choice.

 

[Koolau]

That’s what public health tries to do- provide people with the information to keep them healthy based on what they will do.
So if a person won’t do A that keeps them healthiest, will they do B, if not B then what about C.
It’s not about telling them what to do because most aren’t listening. It’s about giving them options along with the information and letting them decide.
Sometimes they decide to roll the dice and that’s their choice.

Heh, heh, Darwin was an optimist!

 

[Teacher Terry]

Living in Nevada I am no stranger to wildfires and smoke. I have moderate asthma and once stayed in for a month because of the smoke. I bought a pedal exercise machine and have ordered online. Plus my kids or friends would also get me things.

When I have had to go out I wear a N 95 mask and have never had an asthma attack so they do help me. However, I don’t push my luck and stay out all day. I go to my appointment and then home.

We have had so much rain that we shouldn’t have fires but neighboring states are another story so who knows what the summer will bring. When I moved here 26 years ago wildfires weren’t much of a problem.

 

[target2019]

After a day of clearer air, there's a hint of smoke early in the morning of 6-Jun-2023. Still no rain locally.

The problem on our continent is rearing its head in the South...major fires in several locations.

 

[ddoorn]

Mother Earth Is Trying to Tell Us Something...

The Earth is ON FIRE and we should listen to her message post haste and start making some drastic changes to the ways we choose to live.

We're in upstate NY in Binghamton, about halfway in between Syracuse to the north and Scranton to the south...just north of the NY/PA border.

The smoke, haze and eerie twilight glow of the sun was just SO UNSETTLING!

It was like the End of Days...

 

[aaronc879]

The Earth is ON FIRE and we should listen to her message post haste and start making some drastic changes to the ways we choose to live.

We're in upstate NY in Binghamton, about halfway in between Syracuse to the north and Scranton to the south...just north of the NY/PA border.

The smoke, haze and eerie twilight glow of the sun was just SO UNSETTLING!

It was like the End of Days...

If you are referring to climate change i'm not convinced that is the cause of the fires. Climate change is a very slow process. The US will increase less than 2 degrees before we are all dead. The problem isn't with climate, it is with uneducated and/or irresponsible people. Fires are caused by cigarettes or other easily preventable acts made by humans in the now that have nothing to do with climate.

 

[Northforker]

We have planned a road trip with our truck camper this year to eastern Canada, the Maritimes and Newfoundland with a return route through Maine, Mass, Conn, Delaware, RI, etc. 8 weeks or so. I hope Quebec gets some rain or the fire are contained or exhausted, we leave at the end of this month.

Back up plan B if things don't get better is a route through the UP of Michigan and the north shore of Lake Superior and the Prairie provinces. Ending up at our kid's house in Sandpoint, Idaho.

We are flexible, hope some certainty occurs over the next two weeks. We only have 3 states in the Northeast to complete our 50 state visit list and hope plan A is possible.

 

[Koolau]

The Earth is ON FIRE and we should listen to her message post haste and start making some drastic changes to the ways we choose to live.

We're in upstate NY in Binghamton, about halfway in between Syracuse to the north and Scranton to the south...just north of the NY/PA border.

The smoke, haze and eerie twilight glow of the sun was just SO UNSETTLING!

It was like the End of Days...

If you think red sunsets are bad, try having a tornado go through your front yard one year and your back yard the next year. Climate Change? Who knows, but I doubt it - and that's a heck of a lot scarier than red sunsets.

 

[JoeWras]

Mother earth is trying to tell us to be careful with fire.

 

[Koolau]

Mother earth is trying to tell us to be careful with fire.

 

[Marita40]

It is terrible today in Minnesota! Yellow haze and thick smoke--horrible smell. I've never seen it so bad. Truly hard to breathe.