A local car dealer sent me a quote on a new vehicle, and it included a "Doc Fee" of $999.00. Does that sound either normal or reasonable? I know that dealerships have to process paperwork. But why should I be the one paying for it? What next, a fee for how much electricity the dealership uses? And then a "RETAX Fee" so I can help pay for the dealer's real estate taxes? What do YOU pay for a doc fee when you buy a new car? Is it negotiable? Is it legal in all 50 states?
Car Dealer DOC Fee
- Thread starter FLJim
- Start date
youbet
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
The item that is negotiable is the "bottom line." Dealers try to slice and dice their cut by adding in fees, worthless dealer installed/applied options, focused rebates, trade-in values, etc., etc. In the end, it's what you pay "out the door" for the vehicle that matters.
While some of these fees, such as the "doc fee" you mention, insult one's intelligence, you have to have thick skin and ignore the marketing/sales tactics and focus on what you'll pay "out the door" to purchase the car.
While some of these fees, such as the "doc fee" you mention, insult one's intelligence, you have to have thick skin and ignore the marketing/sales tactics and focus on what you'll pay "out the door" to purchase the car.
I'm pretty sure doc fees are legal everywhere, but it's purely dealer profit, so use your own judgment about dealing with it or not. Also, some states limit the amount of a doc fee.
Dash man
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
When I bought my car two years ago I told him I was only interested in bottom line price and was not interested in any fees. It took a week of emailing back and forth with three dealers, but we came to an agreement.
38Chevy454
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
X2, just pay attention to the bottom line price. How the dealership gets there is their problem. That $999 seems quite high, but if you stay focused on bottom line cost it is the dealer's problem to meet the bottom line. However they add up the various items, your only concern is what are you paying for the car, bottom line total.
RetireBy90
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
I agree with above, but for comparison Carvana adds $2,000 for taxes, title, transfer. I would look at the quote to see if those are added also. If so I would try to get the doc fee removed or perhaps cut in half. If they want to play the individual fees then I would attack or negotiate each line item, including taxes and tags. Last purchase I wrote one check for the vehicle and another separate for taxes, tags, and title transfer.
Worst for me is to sit through finance department for an hour.
Worst for me is to sit through finance department for an hour.
OldShooter
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
$995 ?!!?! That's huge; far more than I have ever been asked to pay. This is actually Additional Dealer Markup on the car. A sneaky place to hide it.
I never pay doc fees. Typically I have seen them up to $200. The way it goes is I walk into the F&I guy's office and he hands me the deal sheet with the Doc fee. I cross it out, cross out the old total and write in the new one. "What are you doing?" (They all say this.) "I don't pay doc fees. We already agreed on the price." Then we go around a little bit and he tells me that is a real cost to him. I then enumerate a few other costs he has like heat, light, lot striping, etc. I then tell him I'll save him the money and take the paperwork to the state myself, which he refuses. I had one clever guy ask: "You'd lose this deal for $200?" My response was "That's your decision. I can get this deal anywhere in town." He caved. Clever, though, he adjusted the truck price down by the $200 so his boss wouldn't see he'd caved. Fine by me.
IMO this is not going to work for $995. Just tell the guy you won't pay and he will probably wish you well and send you on your way. If he does try to negotiate, tell him your number for the fee is zero. He will bitch and cry, then either walk or do the deal. From your side of the table remember "If you''re not willing to leave the table you're not negotiating; you're begging."
You can try to complain to the car manufacturer. Some of them are pressuring their dealers to not try for ADM. Maybe you'll get lucky and the mfg. zone guy will lean on the dealer for you. But probably not.
I never pay doc fees. Typically I have seen them up to $200. The way it goes is I walk into the F&I guy's office and he hands me the deal sheet with the Doc fee. I cross it out, cross out the old total and write in the new one. "What are you doing?" (They all say this.) "I don't pay doc fees. We already agreed on the price." Then we go around a little bit and he tells me that is a real cost to him. I then enumerate a few other costs he has like heat, light, lot striping, etc. I then tell him I'll save him the money and take the paperwork to the state myself, which he refuses. I had one clever guy ask: "You'd lose this deal for $200?" My response was "That's your decision. I can get this deal anywhere in town." He caved. Clever, though, he adjusted the truck price down by the $200 so his boss wouldn't see he'd caved. Fine by me.
IMO this is not going to work for $995. Just tell the guy you won't pay and he will probably wish you well and send you on your way. If he does try to negotiate, tell him your number for the fee is zero. He will bitch and cry, then either walk or do the deal. From your side of the table remember "If you''re not willing to leave the table you're not negotiating; you're begging."
You can try to complain to the car manufacturer. Some of them are pressuring their dealers to not try for ADM. Maybe you'll get lucky and the mfg. zone guy will lean on the dealer for you. But probably not.
RetiredAndLovingIt
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
In California it's mandated at $85, I don't think Florida regulates it so they can charge whatever they think they can get you to pay.
https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/handb...reparation-and-electronic-filing-service-fee/
https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/handb...reparation-and-electronic-filing-service-fee/
REWahoo
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give
You'll be thrilled to learn FL has the highest "Doc Fees" in the US.
https://caredge.com/guides/car-dealer-doc-fee-by-state
GalaxyBoy
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
I once had a dealer try to charge a “storage fee” because he had to park the vehicle on his lot while it was unsold. Moot point as I didn’t buy it from him but Wow!
pb4uski
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
I always object to doc fees and $999 is outrageous. I tell them that processing paperwork is the normal course in a business and that besides it is all computerized these days.
I had one salesman try to tell me that the doc fee was required by law and I told him b*llsh!t.
I had another salesman tell me that the doc fee was non-negotiable because it was preprinted on their contract form... I said you're right, it is preprinted, but the cost of the car is negotiable .. reduce the price of the car by the amount of the doc fee and you have a deal (and they did).
I had one salesman try to tell me that the doc fee was required by law and I told him b*llsh!t.
I had another salesman tell me that the doc fee was non-negotiable because it was preprinted on their contract form... I said you're right, it is preprinted, but the cost of the car is negotiable .. reduce the price of the car by the amount of the doc fee and you have a deal (and they did).
Last edited:
VanWinkle
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Refuse to pay it and walk if they don't agree(reduce the car cost to compensate is ok as noted by pb4). Works every time for me, but YMMV.
VW
VW
Car-Guy
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
That's what I've been doing for years... I tell them, here's what I'll pay drive out, including TTL... I usually have a trade-in too so who really knows (well they do) what the charges are for each line item. The accounting guys figure it out really quick.
Last edited:
OldShooter
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
got that once from the sales manager and I asked him to show me a copy of the law. He quickly faded into the woodwork.
I think "the law" where it exists is a cap on doc fees due to past egregious behavior. It won't be a mandated fee.
- Joined
- Nov 27, 2014
- Messages
- 9,251
Exactly. The law is a cap but I caught a salesman stating it like it was mandatory. I called him on it. I negotiate the bottom line so I really didn’t care, but I wanted him to know that I wasn’t that stupid.
$999 does seem outrageous. I think it’s $250 in Michigan.
rk911
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
when we buy a car (last time was in 2010) we just focus on the bottom line. in '10 we told the sales critter that he could juggle the numbers anyway he wanted as long as the botton line did not exceed $X.
arcyallen
Recycles dryer sheets
- Joined
- Apr 29, 2022
- Messages
- 212
To answer your question, the highest I've seen locally was $399, the lowest was $129. Nationally I've seen over $1k on cars that were super cheap online. I quickly figured out why they were "super cheap". (My favorite trick is advertising a car with EVERY possible discount combined, including "Recent High School Grad" combined with "Military Service Discount" and more.)
As others have said, just look at the bottom dollar amount. Either you'll pay it or you won't. You don't have to play games or try to be clever. Decide on the total amount, and then stick to it. Any time I'm "negotiating" with people, I try to keep it simple and tell them this: "Here's what I'm willing to pay (total). If that works, great, let's do it. If not, no stress, take care!". I don't care if the car is $1 and the fee is $19,999 or vice versa. If I am willing to pay $20k, here's my money.
As others have said, just look at the bottom dollar amount. Either you'll pay it or you won't. You don't have to play games or try to be clever. Decide on the total amount, and then stick to it. Any time I'm "negotiating" with people, I try to keep it simple and tell them this: "Here's what I'm willing to pay (total). If that works, great, let's do it. If not, no stress, take care!". I don't care if the car is $1 and the fee is $19,999 or vice versa. If I am willing to pay $20k, here's my money.
pb4uski
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
I once had a car salesman ask me what I wanted for my trade and I replied $1 million, which got his attention. I then pointed out to him that he could give me $1 million in trade as long as the price of the car I was buying was the conventional net of the car and my trade plus $1 million... so if the car cost $30k and my trade was $10k I was indifferent between that or a cost of $1,020k and a trade value of $1,000k since the net in each case was $20k.
I'm still not sure if he understood.
VanWinkle
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Why agree to pay for items that just add to the dealer profit instead of your bottom line. Ceramic paint sealant, fabric protection, document fees are ok to pay for if it is within your predetermined amount to spend? That's silly and expensive way to do business. You use those items as bargaining power to get the lowest price with the dealer still making his money. There are many hidden profit areas for dealers, just ask a bulk buyer like a rental car company.
VW
VW
Isn't sales tax (where applicable) based on the selling price of the vehicle, prior to any down payments including a trade-in? In some places, the sales tax on that extra $1 million would purchase a couple more vehicles.
Sometimes, timing is everything. Last year, with low vehicle inventory due to supply issues, dealerships could charge just about whatever they wanted and find a buyer. In the middle-to-late 2020, dealers had a hard time selling vehicles. Our kid purchased their first new vehicle in late 2020, and for a brand new vehicle stickered at nearly $40k, they took $10k off and gave them a generous amount on the trade-in.
Last edited:
