Carless

aaronc879 said:
I haven't been able to figure out a way to have a set-up on my bike that would allow me to get a decent amount of groceries without being concerned that it would be stolen while i'm in the store. Any suggestions other than to only get one days worth of stuff at a time. I am not interested in that. That may work in California where almost every day is dry and comfortable but that doesn't work in Wisconsin.
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Yeah, I don't see how people who bike to the grocery store can get more than a day or two of groceries each trip. I could see grabbing a few light, dry items and throwing them in a backpack, but how would you manage with a gallon of milk, a dozen eggs, a tub of butter, a container of yogurt, a pack of frozen salmon or other meat, a bunch of bananas, etc.? I suppose if you're really into biking and don't mind going back and forth multiple times per week, it'd be doable, but I think I'd grow tired of the week-in, week-out drudgery of that pretty quickly.
 
Sojourner said:
Yeah, I don't see how people who bike to the grocery store can get more than a day or two of groceries each trip. I could see grabbing a few light, dry items and throwing them in a backpack, but how would you manage with a gallon of milk, a dozen eggs, a tub of butter, a container of yogurt, a pack of frozen salmon or other meat, a bunch of bananas, etc.? I suppose if you're really into biking and don't mind going back and forth multiple times per week, it'd be doable, but I think I'd grow tired of the week-in, week-out drudgery of that pretty quickly.
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Yet many people buy groceries without a car, and without complaining about it either. Imagine that!
 
It's much more comfortable to use a rear luggage rack on a bike, and a pannier attached to each side of the luggage rack. I use open panners for shopping. Each pannier can hold a recycled bag or grocery bag, or a Trader Joe's-type large paper bag. Carrying weight on your back is not comfortable, especially in hot weather. I regularly bike to one grocery store, but I walk to other closer ones. I have open panniers similar to these:

https://www.amazon.com/Bushwhacker-...ocphy=9007806&hvtargid=pla-523944087001&psc=1

I could fairly easily live without a car because I can walk to virtually everything I need, though I own a car. My 11+ year old car has just 29,000+ miles. My nearly 5 year old battery died a couple of weeks ago and I wasn't in a great hurry to get a new battery.
 
W2R said:
Yet many people buy groceries without a car, and without complaining about it either. Imagine that!
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I don't think I was complaining about anything. I was just making an observation and sharing my point of view about the "carless" life being discussed here. :confused:
 
W2R said:
Yet many people buy groceries without a car, and without complaining about it either. Imagine that!
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Sojourner said:
I don't think I was complaining about anything. I was just making an observation and sharing my point of view about the "carless" life being discussed here. :confused:
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I was thinking about this sentence:
Sojourner said:
I think I'd grow tired of the week-in, week-out drudgery of that pretty quickly.
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I guess that growing tired of week-in, week-out drudgery can be done while keeping one's mouth shut and not complaining about it on message boards, you're right.
 
Sojourner said:
Yeah, I don't see how people who bike to the grocery store can get more than a day or two of groceries each trip. I could see grabbing a few light, dry items and throwing them in a backpack, but how would you manage with a gallon of milk, a dozen eggs, a tub of butter, a container of yogurt, a pack of frozen salmon or other meat, a bunch of bananas, etc.? I suppose if you're really into biking and don't mind going back and forth multiple times per week, it'd be doable, but I think I'd grow tired of the week-in, week-out drudgery of that pretty quickly.
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I agree. I have floating stuff in my tap water so I buy 24pk cases of bottled water. Not sure how i'm doing that with a bike. I go thru a minimum of 4 bottles per day. Frozen pizzas would not be good either during Summer months. I guess you could get some stuff delivered and get the rest with the bike.
 
Sojourner said:
Yeah, I don't see how people who bike to the grocery store can get more than a day or two of groceries each trip. I could see grabbing a few light, dry items and throwing them in a backpack, but how would you manage with a gallon of milk, a dozen eggs, a tub of butter, a container of yogurt, a pack of frozen salmon or other meat, a bunch of bananas, etc.? I suppose if you're really into biking and don't mind going back and forth multiple times per week, it'd be doable, but I think I'd grow tired of the week-in, week-out drudgery of that pretty quickly.
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As others have suggested, I use a backpack with my bicycle when going to the grocery store. Some of the locals use panniers mounted on the back of their bikes. It's surprising how much stuff you can carry with a reasonably-sized backpack. It also helps that -

1) I do nearly all of my grocery shopping at Trader Joe's. In the distant past, when I shopped at a big chain grocery store, it wasn't fun. My local TJ's is fun though. It's busy, with a wide range of different folk - a great opportunity for socializing and people-watching. The checkers are cool too. Trader Joe's is the first grocery store I have actually enjoyed going to. By comparison, the local Safeway, despite the fact that it's very big and very clean, is major dullsville. Sometimes, I walk to TJ's with my best friend when she does her grocery shopping. We have coffee first, and make an enjoyable outing of it.

2) I live in the SF East Bay, where the weather is nearly always amenable to being outdoors. Not as cold as SF, and not as hot as places further inland. We are blessed.

Because of the above, grocery shopping twice a week is not only not a chore, but actually fun. To expand on the subject of carrying things on a bicycle, I have carried vacuum cleaners, a ground rod hammer (that was a challenging one - very heavy, and required perfect balance while pedaling), all manner of lumber, and metal stock and rods from Home Depot (2 x 4's? No problem!) Basically, where there's a will, there's often a way. I've carried long lengths of PVC pipe back home on the bus, by laying them in the aisle. Other passengers were interested, but nobody seemed to mind. I credit my relative good health and healthy heart rate with the fact that I ride a bike several times a week.
 
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aaronc879 said:
I haven't been able to figure out a way to have a set-up on my bike that would allow me to get a decent amount of groceries without being concerned that it would be stolen while i'm in the store. Any suggestions other than to only get one days worth of stuff at a time. I am not interested in that. That may work in California where almost every day is dry and comfortable but that doesn't work in Wisconsin.
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Get one of these https://www.amazon.com/Schwinn-Tripper-Cargo-Trailer-Grey/dp/B01N260A8D/ref=asc_df_B01N260A8D/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312111916046&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=17131209628690975918&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9018726&hvtargid=pla-433573329811&th=1
 
In Amsterdam almost every bike had a good size plastic box mounted in front of the handlebars. This was great for groceries. But people there typically buy groceries several times a week. High urban density, small fridges, etc.

We have a very heavy duty series of water filters in our house.
 
I've mentioned elsewhere that we finally deleted one car from our inventory here in Paradise. The convenience of 2 cars is real enough. But the cost easily exceeds $1000/year before any repairs. So, now we're a one car family.

We could use THE BUS which is very inexpensive for Seniors. It even stops outside our Condo from early morning to late at night. But I just do not like the inconvenience - mostly of figuring out how to get where I'm going. We often used it as tourists, so it can be done. But I'd give up something else before I gave up my last car.

Biking is mostly done for exercise in the Islands. It's not very practical for grocery shopping - especially a Costco run. For one thing, a poorly secured bike will NOT be there when you return. Period. That's especially true for a "good" bike. And that means you chain every single part of the bike with a lock worth almost as much as the bike. We also kill several "bikers" every year in Honolulu traffic which is another issue. Sort of a "Pet Peeve" issue to me, but I was sad and disappointed to learn that theft of property is very common here. For that reason, I try not to own anything worth stealing - or at least that would be a tragedy if I lost it. Virtually any bike is worth enough to steal here.
 
I don't envision a time when I'll ever be pickuptruckless, let alone carless. We live in suburbia and the roads around here don't have shoulders, let alone sidewalks. If I tried to ride a bicycle I'd have a life expectancy of about twenty minutes, if that. So bicycles are out for us.

At the moment DW is out overnight for babysitting the two grandnephews and grandniece with the car and if I need anything I'll of course take the pickup. On a good day the pickup gets 18 mpg so that is the secondary vehicle and the Honda is the daily driver. I long ago decided that a pickup truck with a shell over the bed is for me the ideal 2nd vehicle, not the least because it's great for hauling radio control model airplanes to the flying site without having to take the wings off. Very few cars can do that and even those require other compromises that I don't wish to make. And if one owns a house it is hard to beat the convenience of having a pickup in the garage for the occasional large, bulky or heavy item.
 
Not really considering even going from 2 cars to 1 car.
We both enjoy separate morning activities which require the use of a car to get there.
 
Car-Guy said:
Not sure he has Internet services there. :) But I miss his posts too.
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Yes, I miss his wisdom as well. A kind soul with lots to say!

We can literally walk to the grocery store, parks, and restaurants but we don't! It's terrible. I'll walk all over the neighborhood but when there's a specific destination, we drive and we never drive very far. I saw this article in the NYT. It is behind a paywall, sorry.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/18/world/europe/sister-andre-worlds-oldest-person-118-france.html

"Sister André lived through the administrations of 18 French presidents and 10 popes and always had vivid memories of global events, including the two world wars, her relatives said. She said in interviews that she saw many French soldiers who fought in the Algerian war for independence, 1954-62, returning traumatized to the hospital where she worked."

“Since I came into this world, I have only seen wars and fights,” she said in an interview as she celebrated her 118th birthday.

"Sister André also survived the influenza epidemic of 1918-19, which took the lives of some 50 million people worldwide."

I have a strong feeling she walked or rode her bike most of the time. She also survived Covid. Quite amazing and makes me wonder if there's a secret to longevity in walking.
 
Rianne said:
Yes, I miss his wisdom as well. A kind soul with lots to say!

We can literally walk to the grocery store, parks, and restaurants but we don't! It's terrible. I'll walk all over the neighborhood but when there's a specific destination, we drive and we never drive very far. I saw this article in the NYT. It is behind a paywall, sorry.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/18/world/europe/sister-andre-worlds-oldest-person-118-france.html

"Sister André lived through the administrations of 18 French presidents and 10 popes and always had vivid memories of global events, including the two world wars, her relatives said. She said in interviews that she saw many French soldiers who fought in the Algerian war for independence, 1954-62, returning traumatized to the hospital where she worked."

“Since I came into this world, I have only seen wars and fights,” she said in an interview as she celebrated her 118th birthday.

"Sister André also survived the influenza epidemic of 1918-19, which took the lives of some 50 million people worldwide."

I have a strong feeling she walked or rode her bike most of the time. She also survived Covid. Quite amazing and makes me wonder if there's a secret to longevity in walking.
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Heh, heh, since we're slightly off topic, I enjoy these stories of folks who lived to amazing ages - and then you find out that their "secret" was having 5 spouses, smoking a pack and a half of Lucky's every day and putting away 3 bourbons in the evening.

Or, the "joke" version where the grizzled old guy on the front porch rocker tells of his exploits with women, his 3 pack-a-day habit, his 1/5th a day of whisky, etc. When they finally ask how old he is, he says "Well, if I just live 3 weeks and 2 more days, I'll be 33."

Returning you now...
 
In college, I had a bicycle with panniers…metal baskets, not removable without tools. When I grocery shopped I always got my groceries in two bags to balance out the load and fit in the two baskets. It worked well.

However, at this stage in life and considering where I live now, I would not be without a car.
 
Almost everyone goes without a car at some point later in life. Some get help or can pay for help the rest will have a really hard time. Unfortunately there is a good chance I will end up in the last group. Most people on this forum will not.
 
A good friend in her 80s sold her car shortly after moving into an independent/assisted living complex. They provided excellent transportation as needed, and with meals provided she just doesn’t need to run errands anymore and would rather not drive anyway.

DF moved to an assisted living type place once he decided he couldn’t drive anymore. Some of the residents had cars there, but many more did not.

We have friends in a CCRC that still have a car and still travel overseas, but they are in a position to give up the car whenever they have to.
 
Code: 
Enjoy free delivery on orders over $250.
Window  Delivery Tue, Wed,  FREE
Length  Fee      Thu Fee    Over
2 hrs   $11      $9         $250+
4 hrs   $8       $6         $250+
6 hrs   $4       $2         $250+
$A2 to have groceries delivered 'sometime today' mid-week.

I get 20% off groceries if I spend >=~$A50 / week in one transaction - so weekly shopping is more economical and economical and larger nutrient density means selecting best food value and lesser weight and not over consuming.
Example: Dry (powdered) milk weighs 1 kg and makes 8 L (8 kg) of reconstitute milk, tastes same, and costs $A1 / L reconstituted whereas wet milk costs $A1.50 / L. Also much longer shelf life.

We consume 12 kg food (+ 16 kg water) each week. We could each backpack 6 kg for 30 minutes one way once per week as part of normal daily walking exercise. Might be better exercise than un-weighted walking.

We use the car weekly else the battery goes flat (still have to put on charger once a month) or the engine rusts.

Plenty of foot and bicycle paths, buses, taxis, rent car, ... Keeping and paying for car is mainly 'inertia' (ie sloth).
 
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As long as we have an active social life, I do not see us going without cars. The flexibility to eat out, socialize with a large family and many friends, and go to various locales for recreation and entertainment is just not possible without cars.

As someone who (for as long at it is possible) values not being dependent on others, having a car is important. I never had a drivers license or a car until I was 21, and that was probably the biggest action that made me feel like an independent adult.
 
Sojourner said:
Yeah, I don't see how people who bike to the grocery store can get more than a day or two of groceries each trip. I could see grabbing a few light, dry items and throwing them in a backpack, but how would you manage with a gallon of milk, a dozen eggs, a tub of butter, a container of yogurt, a pack of frozen salmon or other meat, a bunch of bananas, etc.? I suppose if you're really into biking and don't mind going back and forth multiple times per week, it'd be doable, but I think I'd grow tired of the week-in, week-out drudgery of that pretty quickly.
Click to expand...

I do about 90% of our shopping using a small backpack (an old Eddie Bauer daypack). I have one store about a 10 minute-walk in one direction, and 2 that are a 20-minute walk in the other direction. It is funny, but I frequently carry most of the items on your list: I often get, exactly "a gallon of milk, a dozen eggs, a tub of butter, a container of yogurt, a pack [-]of frozen salmon or other[/-] meat, [-]a bunch of bananas, etc.?[/-]" And a lot of vegetables and fruit.

I sometimes carry a reusable grocery bag; I put that over my shoulder first, and then put the daypack on. The backpack keeps the reusable bag from slipping off my shoulder.

As someone else mentioned, the "trick" is that I shop frequently. I probably go to a grocery store about 5 times a week.
 
In Europe a lot of people walk to the store and often have some type of wheeled cart/basket to carry groceries home.
 
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