https://www.washingtonpost.com/life...cc7b9a-664e-11e6-8b27-bb8ba39497a2_story.html
It's a reader comment in the Carolyn Hax column. Discuss.
It's a reader comment in the Carolyn Hax column. Discuss.
Comment about treating the kids/heirs equally
- Thread starter spncity
- Start date
Some context and a little explanation would be nice.
I knew I should have done that from the computer instead of the iPad (iPad = lower operator skill )
Switching to computer - here's the intro:
Dear Carolyn: Give the kids or grandkids equal amounts of money.
Why? Because you don’t know what will happen in the future.
Sure, some of your descendants are rich, some are poor . . . right now. Today. At this one brief moment in time.
It's followed by an example from that reader.
)Switching to computer - here's the intro:
Dear Carolyn: Give the kids or grandkids equal amounts of money.
Why? Because you don’t know what will happen in the future.
Sure, some of your descendants are rich, some are poor . . . right now. Today. At this one brief moment in time.
It's followed by an example from that reader.
Save
W2R
Moderator Emeritus
(emphasis mine)
I knew I should have done that from the computer instead of the iPad (iPad = lower operator skill
Switching to computer - here's the intro:
Dear Carolyn: Give the kids or grandkids equal amounts of money.
Why? Because you don’t know what will happen in the future.
Sure, some of your descendants are rich, some are poor . . . right now. Today. At this one brief moment in time.
It's followed by an example from that reader.
Save
So, why don't you start the discussion. What are your thoughts? Discuss.
I agree with treating the kids equally, mostly because it avoids hurt feelings which could affect the ongoing sibling relationships.
Money can do funny stuff.
An exception would be if someone is an addict - in which case one choice would be to set up a trustee who could dole out money for recovery and eventually distribute funds if there is verifiable recovery. Not an easy thing to judge, I suppose, and hard to control from the grave.
Another exception would be leaving more (if needed) in order for a trustee to provide for a developmentally disabled child.
There are probably lots of other "what if" scenarios.
Money can do funny stuff.
An exception would be if someone is an addict - in which case one choice would be to set up a trustee who could dole out money for recovery and eventually distribute funds if there is verifiable recovery. Not an easy thing to judge, I suppose, and hard to control from the grave.
Another exception would be leaving more (if needed) in order for a trustee to provide for a developmentally disabled child.
There are probably lots of other "what if" scenarios.
growing_older
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I like the principle of equal shares, but fear it is too simple a suggestion and often there is no obvious right answer.
My parents are relatively well off and there will be a substantial estate.
Sister #1 has 2 kids and a successful career, made more money than parents or anyone else in the family and clearly needs nothing. She has been very vocal that she will be deeply disappointed if inheritance is not equal shares. Doesn't believe she should be penalized by other sibling's sub-optimal life choices.
Me, flirting with FIRE and need no inheritance.
Sister #2 lived at home her whole life more or less sponging off parents, but now caring for them as they age. Very vocal that she deserves lion's share of inheritance, if not all of it, because of her lifetime of sacrifice. Has limited savings and is unlikely to be able to retire without some inheritance.
Brother, has 6 kids of his own and struggles to feed them. I know parents slip him money from time to time to help support his family. Friendly guy, well loved by all, but never found work that turned into a career. Works hard. Financially barely making ends meet. Probably has no retirement assets. Certainly has no college funds for kids, who are all bright and should be college bound.
If it were my decision to make, I'd lean strongly towards funding grandkids educations and dividing the remainder between sister #2 and brother, who both could use the money. Sister #1 and Sister #2 are adamant in opposition to such a plan. Sister #1 will make holy hell if anything other than equal shares is proposed. Sister #2 will make equivalent inter-sibling warfare if she doesn't end up with family house outright and most (or all) of other assets. Brother and I will likely continue to get along with everyone no matter what happens.
So, what are parents to do? At this point I know they are divided. Mom strongly favors equal shares. Dad strongly favors disinheriting everyone except Sister #2.
I wish it was as simple and equal shares to everyone, but that doesn't seem to be reasonable in all families. And we're not even a blended family with second marriages and step-relationships. I cannot see that any simple rule will work in most cases.
My parents are relatively well off and there will be a substantial estate.
Sister #1 has 2 kids and a successful career, made more money than parents or anyone else in the family and clearly needs nothing. She has been very vocal that she will be deeply disappointed if inheritance is not equal shares. Doesn't believe she should be penalized by other sibling's sub-optimal life choices.
Me, flirting with FIRE and need no inheritance.
Sister #2 lived at home her whole life more or less sponging off parents, but now caring for them as they age. Very vocal that she deserves lion's share of inheritance, if not all of it, because of her lifetime of sacrifice. Has limited savings and is unlikely to be able to retire without some inheritance.
Brother, has 6 kids of his own and struggles to feed them. I know parents slip him money from time to time to help support his family. Friendly guy, well loved by all, but never found work that turned into a career. Works hard. Financially barely making ends meet. Probably has no retirement assets. Certainly has no college funds for kids, who are all bright and should be college bound.
If it were my decision to make, I'd lean strongly towards funding grandkids educations and dividing the remainder between sister #2 and brother, who both could use the money. Sister #1 and Sister #2 are adamant in opposition to such a plan. Sister #1 will make holy hell if anything other than equal shares is proposed. Sister #2 will make equivalent inter-sibling warfare if she doesn't end up with family house outright and most (or all) of other assets. Brother and I will likely continue to get along with everyone no matter what happens.
So, what are parents to do? At this point I know they are divided. Mom strongly favors equal shares. Dad strongly favors disinheriting everyone except Sister #2.
I wish it was as simple and equal shares to everyone, but that doesn't seem to be reasonable in all families. And we're not even a blended family with second marriages and step-relationships. I cannot see that any simple rule will work in most cases.
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W2R
Moderator Emeritus
I agree completely. Family harmony is so important, and inheritance issues can cause great discord. So, might as well try to head them off at the pass, so to speak, if possible.
Bamaman
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My wife has 4 kids. The first 3 are a year apart and 20 years later comes "our daughter," Liz.
We've shelled out substantial $ to daughter #1 and her children. Her husband died of cancer and then her daughter was murdered. She left town and has been no part of our lives. We were going to cut her out of the will--but she died last month of a heart attack. Her 2 boys get nothing.
Liz is bipolar and has absolutely no money sense--and has 2 kids. She's chronically unemployed. I plan on setting up a Special Needs Trust that pays for utilities, property taxes, car insurance, healthcare and that's about it. She'll need to step up and work. The house she lives in will also be owned by the trust which isolates any trust assets from any lawsuits that might attach any of her assets.
The other 2 kids will probably receive substantial ex-401K accounts that are now a Rollover IRA.
If a child has not performed as a person, they simply don't deserve to be rewarded at our deaths. The money goes to the ones that supported us.
Teacher Terry
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In that situation I would give a third to brother and 2/3 to sister #2. One of my kids is a addict that never stays clean long so I gave his share to his older brother with the understanding that he uses it to pay for things my son needs. My oldest is not greedy and will do that. The youngest knows the plan too but we are not telling son in the middle who is the addict.
Interesting post
My parents were immigrants who came to Canada, worked hard and tried to be fair to everyone.
I have two younger brothers. Both of them struggled with addiction issues all their lives. I took a different path, worked since I was 16, went to university, married a hardworking tradesman and worked part time to raise our family. Even though we were not rich, frugal living and modest needs provided a good life for us.
Both brothers married, youngest divorced, middle brother still married but estranged from both his sons due to his addictive behavior....stealing their belonging etc.
As the oldest, my parents asked me to be executrix...they were over one day having coffee and told me that they were going to change their will. Apparently may years before, they made out the will to divide everything equally between us. Because my husband and I never needed money during our marriage and they gave my brothers 30000 each to help them with their mortgages etc....they wanted the will to reflect that I was owed 30000. I never knew that information before and the only other person there was my husband.
When my father passed away, I met with the lawyer. My parents never had the time to change the will....and to keep peace in the family, I never spoke about it. My parents had helped us a lot over the years, babysitting our children, helping my husband with the garden etc......and because my brothers were not part of the conversation it would have been my word with no proof.
The only thing I wanted was to buy out my brothers from the parents home and use my share to start my oldest son in homeownership. They agreed to use the bank's assessment, my son took out a mortgage equal to their shares (they verified the amount with a realtor and the price was the same minus the commission). Unfortunately, the will took a year to finalize, and house prices increased quite a bit....almost 100000 over that time. When we met with the lawyer to sign the final papers he pointed out the increased value but my brothers stated that when they agreed to the sale, the price was what it was and they would abide by the original agreement. I was very proud of them at that moment. On the way home, I told them about the will change my parents never made. We just looked at one another and I think all 3 of us were glad we all took the high road.
I tell this story because when money is involved, people often only see their rights......and not everything is black and white. I certainly hope that wisdom will be part of your family's solution. Do what you think is right.
My parents were immigrants who came to Canada, worked hard and tried to be fair to everyone.
I have two younger brothers. Both of them struggled with addiction issues all their lives. I took a different path, worked since I was 16, went to university, married a hardworking tradesman and worked part time to raise our family. Even though we were not rich, frugal living and modest needs provided a good life for us.
Both brothers married, youngest divorced, middle brother still married but estranged from both his sons due to his addictive behavior....stealing their belonging etc.
As the oldest, my parents asked me to be executrix...they were over one day having coffee and told me that they were going to change their will. Apparently may years before, they made out the will to divide everything equally between us. Because my husband and I never needed money during our marriage and they gave my brothers 30000 each to help them with their mortgages etc....they wanted the will to reflect that I was owed 30000. I never knew that information before and the only other person there was my husband.
When my father passed away, I met with the lawyer. My parents never had the time to change the will....and to keep peace in the family, I never spoke about it. My parents had helped us a lot over the years, babysitting our children, helping my husband with the garden etc......and because my brothers were not part of the conversation it would have been my word with no proof.
The only thing I wanted was to buy out my brothers from the parents home and use my share to start my oldest son in homeownership. They agreed to use the bank's assessment, my son took out a mortgage equal to their shares (they verified the amount with a realtor and the price was the same minus the commission). Unfortunately, the will took a year to finalize, and house prices increased quite a bit....almost 100000 over that time. When we met with the lawyer to sign the final papers he pointed out the increased value but my brothers stated that when they agreed to the sale, the price was what it was and they would abide by the original agreement. I was very proud of them at that moment. On the way home, I told them about the will change my parents never made. We just looked at one another and I think all 3 of us were glad we all took the high road.
I tell this story because when money is involved, people often only see their rights......and not everything is black and white. I certainly hope that wisdom will be part of your family's solution. Do what you think is right.
MooreBonds
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
This is an occasion that I really can't stand. If the sister has truly 'sacrificed' basically what amounts to a huge chunk of her life, she should have been compensated by the parents all along for all of this attention and effort. (This coming from me, who as a grandson spent an inordinate amount of time with my grandmother over the 12 years she was a widow. Not medically taking care of her as she was mostly self-sufficient, but being her companion and things like taking her to the store, watching tv with her, taking her to visit her sister, etc., and giving her a reason to live. I spent more time with her in one month than her own son and my 3 siblings spent with her in an entire year - combined). It's not right that she does all of this for years and years and years, and then has to trust that her parents will make right by her through a share of the inheritance that should be substantially more than the others.
Far too often, verbal commitments and assurances are made...only the wills are never updated, and the child that sacrificed is never compensated for the years of their life they gave up. Or the parent(s) simply abuse the willingness of the child, and think nothing of the literal years that are willingly given up. When the parents pass on, what will the daughter do then? How will she be able to get a job to support herself? Sure, putting down "taking care of my parents for X years" is nice on a resume....but not a substitute for someone with real experience in the working world that you are competing against.
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Wealthy parents should tell each of their children that they are entitled to nothing. These parents should also tell each child that they should manage their personal finances as if they will be receiving nothing. If any of the kids do happen to receive an inheritance down the road, they can make the appropriate adjustments to lifestyle/financial planning after the money is in the bank.
My mother's second husband ruined his three sons by failing to follow the advice above. YMMV.
My mother's second husband ruined his three sons by failing to follow the advice above. YMMV.
Teacher Terry
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We told my Mom to travel, have fun and spend her $. She followed that advice and when she died the only asset left was a nice car. She told us to sell the car to pay for a nice funeral meal for everyone. She had paid everything else. She died just short of 90.
Texas Proud
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The problem is that every family is different and there is clearly no one size fits all....
IMO, without any knowledge of something else, every child should share equally.... there should be no extra money going to the child that did not make good money or did not save...
So, what can be something to make a difference... as noted, if one child has special needs... clearly setting up something to take care of your children when you pass is important...
Another is if you child has been on drugs or some other substance... and you know that the extra money could cause their death or injury.... I would think that most parents would have cut off financial help when they were living, so why provide it upon your death...
In growing older's case... I do not think sister #2 should get the lions share... she mooched of parents for many years.... and even though she is doing stuff now, she probably still is mooching... she has been compensated for her 'work'... but, even if she were not a mooch, just because you do more for an ailing parent does not create a duty for them to give you more when they pass... my Mom has 6 kids... two of us do most of the work.... we do have a helper for her 3 days a week, but the oldest and youngest does 90% or more of her other needs... neither of use expect to get more (and BTW, I know we will not as I have her will downstairs).... my brother has not been heard from in over a year... going on two... but, he deserves just as much as I do.... in fact, I think he is missing out...
IMO, without any knowledge of something else, every child should share equally.... there should be no extra money going to the child that did not make good money or did not save...
So, what can be something to make a difference... as noted, if one child has special needs... clearly setting up something to take care of your children when you pass is important...
Another is if you child has been on drugs or some other substance... and you know that the extra money could cause their death or injury.... I would think that most parents would have cut off financial help when they were living, so why provide it upon your death...
In growing older's case... I do not think sister #2 should get the lions share... she mooched of parents for many years.... and even though she is doing stuff now, she probably still is mooching... she has been compensated for her 'work'... but, even if she were not a mooch, just because you do more for an ailing parent does not create a duty for them to give you more when they pass... my Mom has 6 kids... two of us do most of the work.... we do have a helper for her 3 days a week, but the oldest and youngest does 90% or more of her other needs... neither of use expect to get more (and BTW, I know we will not as I have her will downstairs).... my brother has not been heard from in over a year... going on two... but, he deserves just as much as I do.... in fact, I think he is missing out...
Interesting, as always on this topic.
I agree with Texas Proud that the default should be pro rata. BUT....
In my case, for example, DW and I put careers ahead of most things, moved from the hometown, and have done extremely well monetarily compared to my family members. So too, our sons have done well (so far!). My three sibs and their spouses are hard working, blue collar folks who live within 10 miles of mom (2 within walking distance) and have been close to her (and dad before he died). Although we help out long distance on legal/medical/financial questions, it is not comparable to what sibs have done so far--much less what they are likely to do going forward (mom is only 75 and is still quite healthy).
Next time I'm with mom, I intend to tell her that I expect nothing more than a photo album, or something similar--and that the sibs (especially my sisters) should get my "share." My college was paid for by scholarships and mom/dad, while none of my sibs went that route. Plus, neither I nor my sons need the money and it would do far more for my siblings.
Classic YMMV and no size fits all.
I agree with Texas Proud that the default should be pro rata. BUT....
In my case, for example, DW and I put careers ahead of most things, moved from the hometown, and have done extremely well monetarily compared to my family members. So too, our sons have done well (so far!). My three sibs and their spouses are hard working, blue collar folks who live within 10 miles of mom (2 within walking distance) and have been close to her (and dad before he died). Although we help out long distance on legal/medical/financial questions, it is not comparable to what sibs have done so far--much less what they are likely to do going forward (mom is only 75 and is still quite healthy).
Next time I'm with mom, I intend to tell her that I expect nothing more than a photo album, or something similar--and that the sibs (especially my sisters) should get my "share." My college was paid for by scholarships and mom/dad, while none of my sibs went that route. Plus, neither I nor my sons need the money and it would do far more for my siblings.
Classic YMMV and no size fits all.
Souschef
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
No 2 families are the same.
I agree.
I was widowed, as was my current wife. Her sons have totally accepted me, and I love them. I have 2 sons of my own, from my first wife.
When I sold my condo, I had about 80 K in proceeds. I split it 4 ways, between her 2 sons and my 2 sons.
I am now having to pull about 40K a year out of my IRA's for RMD. I started splitting it up 4 ways on each son's birthday.
I figure I can do it for 25 years and still have money left
My sis & BIL have been taking care of mom's affairs for years, and since they are both on the East Coast, it was easier for them to fly down and see her. When she died, they inherited her condo, and got between 40K and 80K out of it. I do NOT begrudge them a dime of it.
I agree.
I was widowed, as was my current wife. Her sons have totally accepted me, and I love them. I have 2 sons of my own, from my first wife.
When I sold my condo, I had about 80 K in proceeds. I split it 4 ways, between her 2 sons and my 2 sons.
I am now having to pull about 40K a year out of my IRA's for RMD. I started splitting it up 4 ways on each son's birthday.
I figure I can do it for 25 years and still have money left
My sis & BIL have been taking care of mom's affairs for years, and since they are both on the East Coast, it was easier for them to fly down and see her. When she died, they inherited her condo, and got between 40K and 80K out of it. I do NOT begrudge them a dime of it.
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MRG
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I watched my parents go through this with their parents. They received less as they were doing slightly better than their siblings. DM not so much but DF was very upset.
I was probably only 7 yo and vividly remember the 2 hour drive home. He made a promise he would not do that, everything would be equal.
He made good on that throughout his life. If he gifted one of us every sibling received the same. It worked for DM, DF. There's never been any hard feelings between the siblings either. Obviously YMMV.
I was probably only 7 yo and vividly remember the 2 hour drive home. He made a promise he would not do that, everything would be equal.
He made good on that throughout his life. If he gifted one of us every sibling received the same. It worked for DM, DF. There's never been any hard feelings between the siblings either. Obviously YMMV.
Car-Guy
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Not an issue for me anymore since I am the sole surviving child. However, I don't want or need their money and have suggested they spend it. It's not going to happen but I keep trying.
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scrabbler1
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This reminds me of something my dad says to my brother and me whenever he spends a little extra money on something: "There goes some more of your inheritance!" LOL
My brother and I are doing well and we just want our dad to be happy. My mom made sure he was set up okay financially in her final days 21 years ago when she knew she was dying of cancer.
When the three of us (my brother, my dad, and I) were working on updating my dad's will 8 years ago, we agreed to split everything evenly between us. The only thing I did was to remove some boilerplate language about excluding money in case one of us lost our job or something like that (read: became a bum). At the time, I was still working but my ER plan was falling into place fast. I didn't want my ER to be used by my brother, not that I thought he would try to pull such a thing, to provide an excuse to cut me out of the will. My brother didn't object to my removing that language.
My brother is married and has a kid, now 12. I am single and have no kids. But that doesn't affect the shares, it does give my brother's side some secondary beneficiaries.
I have thought about using my share of the liquid assets to buy out my brother's share of the house and move in so I could get out of my co-op studio apartment, then sell the apartment. It gets complicated the more I think about it, and it gives me a headache sometimes.
Sunset
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Very much like our situation, I repeatedly told my Mother to go travel, have fun, spend our inheritance. She loved every trip to many countries.
She left a tiny inheritance split amongst the kids.
pb4uski
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I know my grandmother was adamant about treating her kids "equally". Mom & Dad's plans are similar and my siblings and I have all had similar levels of success so no issues there.
For us with our kids it is a minor dilemma in that we paid for DD's college but DS has (thus far) not gone that route. DD is doing great.. six figure income and good savings... DS is working steady and supporting himself but not living near as nicely as DD but still has substantial savings given his earnings.
Part of me says that it was his decision not to go to college and we should just treat them equally. Another part of me thinks that DS should get a larger share since his college fund is still part of the total kitty. Actually, DD would probably advocate DS getting a larger share since she is doing so well. Not a bad problem to have though.
For us with our kids it is a minor dilemma in that we paid for DD's college but DS has (thus far) not gone that route. DD is doing great.. six figure income and good savings... DS is working steady and supporting himself but not living near as nicely as DD but still has substantial savings given his earnings.
Part of me says that it was his decision not to go to college and we should just treat them equally. Another part of me thinks that DS should get a larger share since his college fund is still part of the total kitty. Actually, DD would probably advocate DS getting a larger share since she is doing so well. Not a bad problem to have though.
Texas Proud
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Quoting you since you said you did not want anything except a picture album...
Remember, you do NOT have to accept the inheritance.... IOW, if you mom did leave you something you can just refuse and it will be split as if you were not in the will... this does not favor your sisters if there was an even split as everybody left would split yours evenly....
I also want to add... some wills will leave it to the children or their kids if the child had died (IIRC, it is per stirpes).... if this is the case then your parent wanted the money to go to your direct family.... so I would not give up something that a parent wanted to go to me or my kids... I do not have to spend it and can pass it along to my kids... either now or when I die....
old woman
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I don't have children but like to see it equal if that is the most fair. The thing is life isn't equal and so equal isn't always fair. I don't like to see it used to hurt people. My brother has two kids, boy is childless and married, owns a house and will get a pension. Girl has two kids, divorced, has a condo and lower paid job. She has two kids, boy is finishing college, girl is special needs in high school. My brother and his wife plan to leave everything to the grandson so he can take care of his sister. It hurts his uncle's feeling. I am leaving both my brother's kids equally since they both will make decent use of the money. I am leaving some to my boyfriend and might do a 529Able account for my niece's daughter next year. I am not leaving anything to my other brother or his half dozen or more kids or if I do I wouldn't want him to find out who else inherited.
My wife and her 3 siblings have all done pretty well for themselves so when her parents died the estate was divided evenly, no problems.
My brother lives in Australia and is doing very well for himself as was I living in the USA when my Dad died. My 2 sisters were nowhere near as well off and both lived close by and did all the care required in the last few years of his life. No way was I going to suggest that he change his will to divide his modest estate unevenly. Instead I simply gave my share of the estate (~£10k) to my 2 sisters and told my brother what I'd done. Over the following few years he paid for my sisters and families to fly out for vacations with him where they had a wonderful time with him refusing to let them pay for anything.
My brother lives in Australia and is doing very well for himself as was I living in the USA when my Dad died. My 2 sisters were nowhere near as well off and both lived close by and did all the care required in the last few years of his life. No way was I going to suggest that he change his will to divide his modest estate unevenly. Instead I simply gave my share of the estate (~£10k) to my 2 sisters and told my brother what I'd done. Over the following few years he paid for my sisters and families to fly out for vacations with him where they had a wonderful time with him refusing to let them pay for anything.
