Conspicuous consumption: I don't get it

[ProfHaroldHill]

Lexus a beater car? 

My other car is a Rolls Royce  

HH

 

[Outtahere]

Brewer take the Chey emblem off the Avalanche and stick on the Cadillac one and whala you've got yourself and Escalade. Dh and I laugh every time one passes our Avalanche because we know we paid a whole lot less for the same dang thing!

 

[wabmester]

When I've decided to buy something, I usually buy something of quality.

Yeah, I think that's where you can draw the line.   Conspicuously silly consumption is when you pay more without getting higher quality.    For example, some people like Rolex watches that don't keep time as well as a Timex and require winding (or shaking your wrist to "self-wind").    To me, that's not quality.

Same goes for the "luxury" car brands when they're just rebadged lower-end models with added frills.     Even computer companies are doing this now (like Dell's XPS brand), and it just drives me nuts.

 

[ProfHaroldHill]

Could be that we're wired to seek status for reproductive reasons, and wired to want stuff because up until recently stuff has been really scarce . . .

HH

 

[JPatrick]

I remember reading where some wacko was saying that if you don't enjoy doing something, try doing it with no clothes on.  
Why not give it a shot CT, and let the rest of us know how it was.

 

[SteveR]

Could be that we're wired to seek status for reproductive reasons, and wired to want stuff because up until recently stuff has been really scarce . . .

HH

Not sure I can see it as much for "status" as much as just the desire to have gadgets, cool cars, plasma TVs, high end stereos, and the "best" of something. If you have the cash you can get these things that make you happy (at least for a little while). If it were to attract a female for mating purposes (not that some don't do it for that reason) then women would not be a much a part of it as they seem to be; at least from my experience.

I have done my share of consuming. The things I like happen to cost money to own in order to use. I don't buy art unless I like it. I buy cars for a purpose and not for style. I have my share of "toys" and use them for what they where purchased for; enjoyment.

C-T likes his $600 fly rod-reel and that is because it makes him happy. I like my Kodiac 450 because it makes me happy and I enjoy riding it. I didn't get it to impress anybody. No one even sees it where I use it.

CC to some is in fact CC. To others it is a way to get the things that make them happy and being happy should be a part of living a good life. If you are only going to Scrooge away your money for future income then if you die tomorrow and have not lived, then what have you accomplished?

Just my two cents.

 

[laurence]

I saw a blurb on t.v. last night talking about a service where you can have the designer hand bags the stars own for much less. It's like netflix for purses. You pay $100 a month, pick out a bag from their selection (these bags allegedly go for 5 grand or more) and use it as long as you want, then return it for a different bag. Considering many people seem to find their handbag out of date after a few months, sounds like it might be a smart move for some. Fortunately DW has never bought a handbag for close to $100.

Now if only I could find a rent-a-rolex/expensive watch service. Hey, maybe I just hit upon a business model....

 

[Nords]

I fight CC every day!  I love all things lux.  I want a lexus, I want a Porsche, I want a Rolex, I want a 3000 sq. foot house overlooking the ocean, I want a plasma and a klipsch sound system.

Yesterday we splurged $800 on another 200 W of photovoltaic panels. When my pulse rate settles down a little I'm going to hang out at Inter Island Solar Supply and see what kind of mounting racks they have!

The seller's an interesting guy. He works at Enova Hawaii putting together EVs and fuel cell vehicles for an Air Force contract on Hickam AFB. The four PV panels are 11 years old, still in their original box, and he says he just hasn't gotten around to putting anything up yet. He's hinted that he has more panels and may be selling them later on. I think I've found a fellow solar groupie...

 

[justin]

Now if only I could find a rent-a-rolex/expensive watch service. Hey, maybe I just hit upon a business model....

Go buy a $10 Folex from your nearby Chinatown. Lie your head off about it, and no one will know the difference.

 

[wabmester]

Yesterday we splurged $800 on another 200 W of photovoltaic panels.

Is that considered cheap for old panels?   Our neighbor just put up a bunch of brand-new Sanyo HIT panels at a little more than  $4/watt.

Sanyo HIT

 

[FlowGirl]

What grosses me out about a lot of conspicuous consumers is that they don't put a lot of thought into their purchases.  I like quality, but when I buy something expensive its because I've done the research, have lusted after it a long time, and shopped for a good deal, not just because "all of the cool kids have one."  I think I'm immune to that kind of thinking, I just don't like spending money all that much.

OTOH, The husband does love to spend money on his hobbies, but also finds the hunt for a good deal is half the fun.  He has a high end triathlon bike that turns quite a few heads (Softride) but its something that he's taken 2 years to build - frame off ebay, friend of a friend had some extra speedplay pedals, etc.  He enjoys the bike, enjoys having got it for such a good deal, and yes, does enjoy having others "ooh and ahhh" over it.  I don't give him a hard time about it though - he commutes on it almost every day and while it might be conspicuous its way cheaper than a Lexus.

 

[frayne]

Could be that we're wired to seek status for reproductive reasons,HH

 

[Outtahere]

FlowGirl that's how I feel about "stuff", we buy quality at the best price we can find, doesn't make sense to buy something we'll have to replace if only we'd bought the something well made. Same with my collecting, I can buy just about anything I want for my doll or glass collection on Ebay but the things I treasure most are the great pieces I found at a fleamarket for 1/100th of the real price. It's all in the hunt for the good deals, some how I think that's something all us LBYMers are all about.

 

[goodguy1_64]

To me, CC means purchasing lots of stuff on credit or buying with windfall $$ ( bonuses, etc) when someone has debt that should be paid down or they haven't funded their retirement.



The inability to delay pleasure today to better prepare for the long/medium term is part of the issue.

my 2 cents..

goodguy

 

[yakers]

Maybe I'm missing something, isn't part of CC being 'conspicous'? A person can reasonably or unreasonably consune what they want but the feature of CC is doing it for attention or (presumed) social standing. My neighbor has a 120K$ Mercedes in an area of beaters and cheap newer cars (I have an 05 Ford Focus). Its a nice car and if I could afford the Mercedes I still wouldn't buy it.

 

[azanon]

Since when is a Lexus RX330 part of conspicous consumption? It's a pretty inexpensive small SUV. There are 4 of them on our cul-de-sac. They are so prevalent in the community that they are considered just another ol' beater car.

Lets clear this up. A Lexus is conspicious consumption. Though i thought it was common knowledge, lexus is a luxury line of Toyota. There are less expensive vehicles that do the job equally well, and i bet everyone of those neighbors dont actually drive the SUV offroad (which is what an SUV is designed for). If they're used for hauling people (most likely the case), a minivan makes a lot more sense functionally as well as pricewise compared to a lexus SUV.

 

[just_hatched]

Lets clear this up. A Lexus is conspicious consumption. Though i thought it was common knowledge, lexus is a luxury line of Toyota. There are less expensive vehicles that do the job equally well, and i bet everyone of those neighbors dont actually drive the SUV offroad (which is what an SUV is designed for). If they're used for hauling people (most likely the case), a minivan makes a lot more sense functionally as well as pricewise compared to a lexus SUV.

If the person buying the Lexus believes that it is higher quality than other cars and has the features he/she wants that may not be available in other cars, is that still "CC"?

Seems like the same argument to me about buying quality so it will last. Although, I guess that would then depend on how soon this person trades the Lexus for a another new car (or buys a new car and keeps the Lexus.)

Personally, I don't see the benefit of buying an expensive car, but if you're making $200k/year or simply have a high NW, to that person it would seem the same difference of buying name brand cereal at the grocery store versus the generic brand.

 

[brewer12345]

OK, maybe "conspicuous consumption" isn't the best description. Instead, how about high consumption? I've no doubt that the purchase of house and cars is well within the partner's means (he paid cash for the house). I guess I just don't get the idea of spending money just because you have it. Maybe I will get there eventually (when I have more dough), but at least at this point in my life, I can think of an awful lot better things to do with an extra 10 r 20 grand than to use it to buy the luxury version of whatever car I would have otherwise bought.

 

[LOL!]

Lets clear this up.  A Lexus is conspicious consumption.  Though i thought it was common knowledge, lexus is a luxury line of Toyota.  There are less expensive vehicles that do the job equally well, and i bet everyone of those neighbors dont actually drive the SUV offroad (which is what an SUV is designed for).   If they're used for hauling people (most likely the case), a minivan makes a lot more sense functionally as well as pricewise compared to a lexus SUV.

Lexus likes to advertise that it's a luxury line, but like Acura they have some cheap models like the RX series. An RX300 can be less expensive than the Toyota Highlander that was mentioned above. Also, it does just fine off-road and in flooded streets where a Ford SW or Dodge minivan would croak. And it can get better gas mileage than that minivan. It's a much quieter ride on the inside than these cars. Plus the service is outstanding.

So I'm gonna have to disagree with you. The RX is a good general purpose beater vehicle.

 

[just_hatched]

I guess I just don't get the idea of spending money just because you have it. Maybe I will get there eventually (when I have more dough)

I think this is the heart of what I struggle with as the "ER Paradox" or perhaps the "ER Loop".

I picture a dialogue with your/our co-workers to be something like:

ER: "I don't get the idea of spending money just because you have it."

Them: "If you don't spend it, why do you want more money?"

ER: "So I can achieve FI and retire."

Them: "I can already buy everything I want, so I have FI, plus I like working to make more money so why do I want to retire early?"

ER: "So you can do other things, other than work."

Them: "But I like to work and buy things that make me happy."

ER: "Buying things doesn't make me happy, experiences make me happy, other than work."

Them: "Maybe you should find a job that makes you happy."

ER: "I like the money at this job, so I can save up a big pile of money - eventually, and then retire."

Them: "To do what? Spend it in retirement? Why wait?"


As you can see, I'm cursed with a Gollum-like internal monologue...

 

[brewer12345]

Except that I would never open my pie hole and utter any of those words. I imagine that if this is the job I retire from I will have a tough time getting my point across.

 

[cube_rat]

The CC in my neighborhood is the soccer moms driving Hummers Hummers are an obnoxious eyesore on the road.

To all of you Hummer drivers: You do not look cool.

 

[Sheryl]

Good thread. It took me a day to find it so everyone's already said most of what I would have said.

I think one point that has not been touched on is the psychological aspects of consumption. A lot of people who have "arrived" at the point where they have the money to buy the conspicuous status stuff have this empty hole in their lives, this is- this- all- there- is- feeling. The common response to an empty meaningless life is to try to fill it with "stuff." The desire to shop for and buy bigger better cooler stuff becomes the internal focus. When all you do is watch tv, and the ads bombard you with what you must have, it's easy to become obsessed. Accumulating stuff becomes the meaning of life....

When she found herself divorced, living alone, kids grown and gone, my mom got very depressed. Her whole life seemed to revolve around buying stuff. Luckily she discovered golf, joined a senior womens' league and then her life started to revolve around golf instead.

 

[greg]

I am not inetersted in conspicuous consumption (CC) and never have been. Lately, I have been exposed to some really world-class levels of CC. I guess Wall St. had a good year and will be distributing obscenely large bonuses soon. I am hearing news reports of luxury goods retailers already ramping up their business, and no doubt things will start going into overdrive. My colleagues are infected with all this nonsense as well. One of the junior partners has purchased the following since I joined up in April: 2005 Mustang convetible; a 4BR house in a nice NYC suburban neighborhood (which has been completely gutted since the purchase), and most recently a Luxus RX330. A senior analyst mentioned yesterday that his wife is starting to talk about buying an Escalade (despite the fact that her Durango is 3, maybe 4 years old).

I don't get it. These guys work hideously long hours for the comp they get, and then they apparently piss a lot of it away on luxury junk. I guess I am a bad Merkin or something, but I find it strange and off-putting.

My thought is that modern 'employed life' has led to a great deal of compression in the work place. Most of this compression has been caused not by the nature of work, which has been the same for generations, but the change in the time element. We are now forced to multi-task and and deal with things much faster. It used to be that you were given one task to complete, you completed it, you took a short break, then started a new task. (I know i'm over-simplifying here). Today, we are all in a flurry, compounded by e-mails, calls from home, multiple projects being juggled all at once, etc., etc.--all validation of our greater productivity.

The compression builds. We need a release. We buy a new car. It seems to help. But it is really superficial because we really know that that is not a permanent solution for ever increasing pressure. We end up walking around like zombies, responding to the environmental stimuli (TV ads) in the most vacuous ways, maxing out our credit card limits to buy toys.

(I'll bet Nords has the best de-compression stories. Getting off a submarine after three months or more of active duty in a life-death situation, occupied by required life-death activities, etc.)

My true dislike of GWB comes from watching how he has managed to undermine seventy years of refined security blanket. He is disassembling the SS system, the healthcare system, worker security (unions?--not that this is all bad), rising deficits, etc., so that we are slowly compressing ourselves, as a nation, into a sort of robotic consuming machine. These are things that the middle class was built on, a feeling of security that provided the basis for taking well thought out risks and creating real fulfillment. In our compressed state, we lose the real textures of life and end up responding to base crudeness--fear and greed.

--Greg

 

[moghopper]

My true dislike of GWB comes from watching how he has managed to undermine seventy years of refined security blanket. He is disassembling the SS system, the healthcare system, worker security (unions?--not that this is all bad)

I think it would have happened with or without GWB - I don't give him that kind of credit. I don't think he's that competent.