Contemplating Patio Extension

[eytonxav]

We have a rather small backyard, with our rear fence being only 15' away from the house. The existing patio is covered and indented into the house and is only about 9'x12'. We want to add a patio extension approximately 17'x 9' using either poured concrete or pavers, with a pergola covering this entire extension. Further will add a built in grill and stone sitting wall. We are just starting to get quotes, but I am wondering about the pros/cons of poured concrete vs pavers. The pavers certainly appear to be a more attractive option, but I worry about shifting/sinking. I am also wondering about my sprinkling system piping running underneath the patio or whether it would need to be relocated which I imagine would be the better way to go. I think we will also opt to put a cover on top of the pergola so the patio could be used when its raining. Anyone have any suggestions if you've done a patio upgrade project?

 

[MichaelB]

Our neighbor redid the small back yard. Went from dirt and random vegetation to a nice large patio, built in grill, etc. They used pavers and ceramic tile. Now, 5 or so years later, weeds are growing between the pavers and the new owners are not finding it easy to eliminate them.

 

[pb4uski]

If the base is good and compacted, I wouldn't worry about shifting or sinking... and actually, that can even happen with poured concrete if the base isn't properly prepared. We've had both. My mom had poured concrete and eventually had to replace it but that was after 30 years. We had bricks at another house and they were fine.

One concern I would have about pavers is the potential for grass or weeds to grow in between the pavers over time.

 

[Sunset]

A neighbor put in pavers for a small patio extension for his adult swing. Within 3 yrs it was no longer flat.
The good thing about pavers is they can always be picked up, and gravel added. It's a lot of work and expensive if you pay someone to do it.

 

[OldShooter]

... a pergola covering this entire extension. ... I think we will also opt to put a cover on top of the pergola so the patio could be used when its raining. ...

Not doing a patio but glassy-eyed from reaching zoning regulations for a new lake home. Check with your local zoning/planning officials; there may be a setback requirement for ancillary structures that will make a pergola impossible. Maybe not. Good luck.

 

[Aerides]

Grass, weeds, ants nests, etc., will all form in paver cracks. And moldy spots will build up in the corners. All easily remedied with weedkiller and regular pressure cleaning, but something to keep in mind. It is high maintenance but a nicer look.

Sinking/shifting shouldn't be a concern as a good paver place will level and grade the surface first. We have a huge paver driveway (can park 6 cars) and it's never shifted at all. I've seen a lot of poured concrete driveways and patios, and a lot of them seem to crack.

Your sprinkler service guy will tell you the best re-routing, and it'll probably move the same no matter what the new surface is - pipes under the grass, not under the patio.

Your pergola dimension options might not be as generous as the patio, depending on how structures and setbacks are defined in your zoning area.

 

[Ronstar]

We have 27 year old paver patio and paver walkways. Some of the pavers have shifted a little. I fix them as needed. Not a big deal. And as to weeds between the pavers - just spray with weed killer. And add polymeric sand once a year to the joints. But make sure that the sand is slightly below the top of the pavers. Polymeric sand binds the pavers together to minimize shifting. And yes - I would reroute the sprinkler line away from the patio.

And like others have said - check your setback req's (also any easements) to make sure that you can build the pergola as planned. City building dept should be able to help you out there. Easements if any would be shown on your plat of survey.

 

[Bamaman]

I poured a very large patio around my new pool last Summer. The cost was $6 a square foot including the ready mix and labor.

You could do it with pavers, and it's not at all a difficult self installation. You've got to put down the right gravel and compact it. Then sand. And then the pavers put in place and compacted. If they ever shift, they can be taken up and adjusted. But they're expensive to use. See YouTube.com

Weeds and moss can easily be removed with Roundup--or any full vegetation killer.

Instead of a pergola, have you considered installing a Sundowner electric canopy?

 

[street]

We have 27 year old paver patio and paver walkways. Some of the pavers have shifted a little. I fix them as needed. Not a big deal. And as to weeds between the pavers - just spray with weed killer. And add polymeric sand once a year to the joints. But make sure that the sand is slightly below the top of the pavers. Polymeric sand binds the pavers together to minimize shifting. And yes - I would reroute the sprinkler line away from the patio.

And like others have said - check your setback req's (also any easements) to make sure that you can build the pergola as planned. City building dept should be able to help you out there. Easements if any would be shown on your plat of survey.

All the above and weeds are not an issue with a little weed killer. Very simple.

 

[Dhickman57]

We added concrete that was stamped. Looks like flagstone. Best option.

 

[harley]

We built a large paver patio in our backyard in FL. After 7 years there's one small area that has sunk a bit. It will be a relatively easy fix when we get back there. FL ground is notoriously shifty, but they prepared the ground pretty well. We had also taken some large live oaks down, and I think the sunken area is where a root has rotted away. We usually just pull the weeds out as we see them, or spray them. The ants are an annoyance, but they live there and we just visit. We just sweep the sand back between the pavers if it gets too obvious.

I would recommend pavers over poured concrete. I've never seen a concrete patio that hasn't cracked over time. Especially if you live in an area where the ground freezes and heaves.

I would definitely reroute the irrigation system. Tearing out the patio to fix a leak would be a pain. We're thinking about a large patio in the backyard of our new townhome in VA, which will be on hard clay. It should still be perfectly flat in 100 years. But there are utility lines that will run under it into the house. I think they'd be able to pull cables through the conduit without tearing anything out, but it's something to think about.

 

[PandaBear]

My husband and sons laid a paver patio in our backyard. They used sand which levels and keeps the weeds out. It’s been at least 5 years and is still nice.
I’d says it’s maybe 10’ x 10’ so not tiny but not huge ether. We have a conversation set set on it under a gazebo.

 

[harley]

That's (likely) polymeric sand. It works pretty well, although determined ants can move it. You need to reapply it every once in a while. But it's definitely the best thing to use with a paver patio.

 

[427Vette]

I like the option of the colored and stamped concrete with rebar in it. It looks more unique and it’s definitely durable. Regarding your sprinkler pipes, I wouldn’t do anything with them now. Just bury a few spare conduits under the slab large enough to slide a new pipe through should you need to do a repair later on.

 

[Jerry1]

I like the option of the colored and stamped concrete with rebar in it. It looks more unique and it’s definitely durable. Regarding your sprinkler pipes, I wouldn’t do anything with them now. Just bury a few spare conduits under the slab large enough to slide a new pipe through should you need to do a repair later on.

Exactly what I was thinking. Stamped concrete and leave the sprinkler system alone. One qualifier on the sprinkler system - don’t bury any valves or connections. If it’s just pipes, I wouldn’t worry. If there’s connections in there, I’d spend a bit more to move them.

 

[Surewhitey]

We have a pier & beam home that allowed us to do a covered deck & screen room off the back door. Really made a difference in our space and outdoor living.

Also off the end, I used some of the pavers that the last owner had & added some filler rock for a grill/smoking area. 2 years later and still looks great.

 

[eytonxav]

Thanks everyone for the suggestions. We currently have a stamped concrete driveway that looks like pavers. It is 8 years old and has a few micro cracks that are barely visible. If doing poured concrete, it will definitely be a stamped variety for improved appearance, although I suspect it might price out close to what pavers would cost. With a pergola the other consideration is making sure there are concrete piers below the frost line sufficient to support the weight of the pergola. I am not sure where the irrigation lines run, but I do know three sprinkler heads will need to be moved or capped, and there are no valves in the area where this patio will go. After further thought and as others mentioned, I am inclined to leave the piping where it is now, as it could be rerouted later around the patio if there is a problem. In terms of setbacks, I cannot go closer than 5' from the rear fence, so will probably keep it 6-7' away. Also, since its a relatively small area, I do not need a building permit, only HOA approval. Another consideration, with a built in grill under the pergola, I am thinking the pergola will need to be 10-11' tall.

 

[eytonxav]

We have a pier & beam home that allowed us to do a covered deck & screen room off the back door. Really made a difference in our space and outdoor living.

Also off the end, I used some of the pavers that the last owner had & added some filler rock for a grill/smoking area. 2 years later and still looks great.

Very nice look!

 

[Leo1277]

We added concrete that was stamped. Looks like flagstone. Best option.

I second that, stamped concrete can look quite nice and doesn't have the weed or sinking problem. We have a front porch that had slate on it, but it turned out the concrete underneath was really poor quality and started to not only crack but crumble. So we re-did the whole thing using stamped concrete that looks like slate. Another thing, concrete has a tendency to crack over the years, and some of the stamped concrete guys can put in deeper indentations in some parts that follow the pattern, and if it cracks later, it's more likely to be in these indentations and not be noticeable. I thought this is a pretty good side benefit from using stamped concrete.

 

[braumeister]

One of our neighbors put in stamped concrete that looks like rough-hewn timbers. Looks terrific.

 

[Leo1277]

We have a pier & beam home that allowed us to do a covered deck & screen room off the back door. Really made a difference in our space and outdoor living.

Also off the end, I used some of the pavers that the last owner had & added some filler rock for a grill/smoking area. 2 years later and still looks great.

Wow that looks very nice! Just like out of one these magazines of what to do with your patio.

 

[JRon]

The quality of the installation will have more of an effect on the quality of the product than which product you use. Doing your homework on the contractor you select is worth the time and effort. Enjoy your new patio!

 

[pb4uski]

.... With a pergola the other consideration is making sure there are concrete piers below the frost line sufficient to support the weight of the pergola. ...

That seems overkill for a pergola. We have severe winters and for a pergola I would likely do a ~3' deep hole filled with crushed stone to keep water away and then a concrete deck block on top of the stone. The deck at our current house is on that and doesn't move.

Another approach often used in our area is to dig a 3-4' hole, put a paver in the bottom then a 4"x4" or 6"x6" PT post inside a schedule 40 sleeve...the sleeve is from the paver/bottom of the hole to the just above grade level... and then fill and compact the area between the outside the sleve and inside of the hole with crushed stone. If the ground does heave then the sleeve heaves along with it but the post doesn't move. The deck and pool house at our old house were on posts like these and we never had a problem.

I'll concede that when the guy who was fixing our poolhouse first proposed this sleeve approach I was skeptical... but it worked well... so well that we later used that approach when we had to replace our failing deck posts and it worked well there too.

 

[eytonxav]

Still in the process of getting bids on this project and have run into some aspects that are bothering me. On the pergola, I wanted western red cedar or redwood, but due to current construction shortages it is virtually unavailable or would become cost prohibitive. Therefore several contractors have switched to douglas fir, and while that wood is structurally stronger, I am concerned about its longevity in terms of rot, insect damage, warping, and increased maintenance in the future. One factor that may help with the maintenance, I plan to cover the pergola with a poly top that would keep the weather off much of the structure. One contractor told me they vat dip the douglas fir two times to apply stain and get it to penetrate. I am just unsure if douglas fir would be a smart/acceptable option. Googling, it seems some find it perfectly acceptable, while others recommend cedar/redwood.

I also decided against pavers, and will go with stamped concrete or flagstone in concrete. The flagstone is certainly a more desirable option, but just not sure I want to spend another $4K over stamped concrete. I somehow thought making decisions for this project would be easier, but like many things tradeoffs can create some head scratching.