Costco Tires: Free Lifetime (non)rotation

[ERD50]

Quit being a whiner and DIY. It will take as long as a phone call to the manager, but even if the call is successful, you'll have to go to the store again. I love Costco for tires, their free road hazard policy has saved me money, and they are usually the lowest price.

Well, it is cold here right now. And I get older every year and less interested in jacking a car up in the cold. I don't like the safety issue of jacking both the front and back at the same time so I can do this (or swap out the spare and have to do twice as much jacking). I don't own a set of jack stands.

And, I paid for the service - I ought to get what I paid for.

And no - Costco is NOT the lowest price. I saved $321 on a set of 4 for my Volvo by going to Tirerack.com. That includes the mounting cost, but I declined the Road Hazard Warranty (why pay to insure what you can afford to cover), and I'll have to pay for rotations (maybe $80 lifetime?), but I'd rather do that then get this runaround for 'free lifetime' rotations that aren't.

-ERD50

 

[FUEGO]

But, FWIW, I too resent the "No Appt. Necessary" = "no appointments, period" Here in paradise, that translates to "except for cousin so-and-so or sista such and such". Went to Sams to get last set of tires. I went to have them installed right after purchase (mid day). The guy said nothing about wait time. I had no way to go anywhere, so I just planned to wait. I finally asked how long it would be. He said "Oh, we no get to it today, brah" So I ask if I can leave it over night. "No way, brah". So I bring it back first thing in the morning. Oddly enough, though I was first in line, they took other cars first - or else they WERE left over night. From first in line to 3 1/2 hours later to get my tires installed (what, a half hour job - maybe?).

Don't feel bad - I have had similar experiences stateside with Sam's/Walmart for auto repair/maintenance issues like this. Like them wanting me to wait 3 hours to get a new battery installed. Heck, I may save $5-10 vs. Autozone or Advance Auto (who installs batteries for free), but my time is worth SOMETHING.

 

[Texas Proud]

Having been the guy living where there is no snow and almost never any ice, I always kept the better treads on the front. That led to a set of what looked like racing slicks on the back end of my Mustang GT. And that led to hydroplaning in the #1 lane at about 70MPH into a series of 360 degree spins across 6 lanes of traffic, and a couple of hundred feet of sideways skidding through the dirt (including between the posts of a highway sign.)

People stopped and applauded.

I figured that was God's way of telling me that he didn't care how much those high-speed radials cost, it was time to stop being a cheapskate and buy some new tires.

Still, it sounds to me like Costco et. al. has found a way to scam suckers into buying new tires.

Not quite as exciting... but my BIL had the older tires on the back and he was doing 70.... hit a patch of standing water at 70 and he started the 360s... but he went over a curb and down into the ditch.... like you, hit nothing (except the curb)... it was funny looking at his car because the tires kicked up a LOT of mud and it was all over the car.... he bought tires also...


To the poster about time.... I have never seen 6 year... I have seen 7 and 8... and one listed 10 years... I have never had tires that long, but like you I make sure they are newer.... the last set I got for our SUV, they were 2 months old...

 

[Dimsumkid]

I can tell you that Costco is very responsive if you decide to complain. I did this after visiting the store in Ca near Disney. Bought a cash card to buy lunch for the family, waited in this huge line after ordering and was told the cash card machine was broken. I got so ticked off because they wouldn't just ring it up in the store. We went elsewhere to eat and I voiced my complaints on the website. The next day I got a huge apology from the store manager and they acknowledged the machine was broken. They asked me to give them another chance by visiting the same location and the family meal would be on Costco's tab...whatever we wanted to eat off the menu! The frustration to cost ratio on this was a more than fair trade. My son was really happy after eating all his favorites there. Wish he was a little older, he was only 5, so he didn't eat that much food.

 

[BigMoneyJim]

I've always figured the free rotation and free repair weren't priced into the tires, but opportunities to sell new tires if the wear bars are showing, a bubble is on the side, belts fraying out the corner due to underinflation, etc..

I can't wrap my head around having the better tread on the rear tires on a FWD, but I don't let the rear tires rot or go bald, either.

My wear bars are almost through. I've always used Discount Tire for their road hazzard warranty, but lately I've thought about ditching the warranty, take the cost risk myself and price compare with Costco. Way back in the day I seemed to run over nails regularly as well as mysteriously develop side-tire bubbles, and a new tire was a hardship, but it's been years since I've had a flat, and long term I think I'm paying more for the warranty than the risk of a damaged tire is worth.

I'll have to look at the last time I bought tires, but I bought two from Discount Tire and had the new ones put on the front. This time I'll need all four, or close enough that I'll go ahead and buy four.

 

[Nords]

... and one listed 10 years... I have never had tires that long, but like you I make sure they are newer...

At 10 years the steel belts start coming through the sidewalls, even if the tires have less than 50K on them and the tread wear bars aren't showing yet, so it's pretty a fairly straightforward indicator.

 

[dgoldenz]

Buy your tires at Tirerack.com and just have them shipped to an authorized center that will match the same free rotation policy. My car's rear tires are larger than the front so I don't rotate them, but I know my local Merchant's offers free rotation with a basic $20 oil change anyway.

 

[Texas Proud]

Buy your tires at Tirerack.com and just have them shipped to an authorized center that will match the same free rotation policy. My car's rear tires are larger than the front so I don't rotate them, but I know my local Merchant's offers free rotation with a basic $20 oil change anyway.

One of the problems is I don't just want a free rotation.... I also want them rebalanced... that is not part of a free rotation...

But, if you pay for lifetime balance and rotation (not that expensive)... you get balanced tires along with the rotation...

 

[Texas Proud]

At 10 years the steel belts start coming through the sidewalls, even if the tires have less than 50K on them and the tread wear bars aren't showing yet, so it's pretty a fairly straightforward indicator.

Yea... I kinda think that would do it for me

So far, 6 years is the longest I have had tires before their are worn...

Now, my dad had a van... and after he died I took over his small company to pay my way through college... I did not drive the van much... one day the back tire just blew out... the neighbor across the street thought it sounded like a gunshot... a nice hole in the side... even with tread on the tires.. lucky I was not driving...

 

[rescueme]

Don't have a Costco (locally) - don't have a problem ...

I order my tires via Tire Rack and have the local STS store mount/balance/allign my "new shoes".

Nothing more than that.

Of course, on my "main vehicle" (a Cadillac SRX) the tires cannot be switched (front/rear are different sizes).

That eliminates the rotation problem ...

 

[Texas Proud]

Don't have a Costco (locally) - don't have a problem ...

I order my tires via Tire Rack and have the local STS store mount/balance/allign my "new shoes".

Nothing more than that.

Of course, on my "main vehicle" (a Cadillac SRX) the tires cannot be switched (front/rear are different sizes).

That eliminates the rotation problem ...

Not really... you can go side to side



It does matter what kind of tire you have.... but I had put different sized tires on a car LONG ago... and as long as they are not unidirectional they can flip them and put on the other side... it does help to even the wear...

 

[rescueme]

...they can flip them and put on the other side...

Sorry - I only go "one way"

BTW, I only put on less than 2K a year on this vehicle (even less on my "baby" - an '02 Mustang GT vert, which traveled 900 miles last year), so I'm not going to worry about it.

I'll probably change them due to age, rather than miles driven (just to be safe). Heck, the original shoes are on my Mustang (after 9 model years). I intend to change them as soon as I firm up my "Route 66" plan...

Anybody want to join me? ...

 

[jazz4cash]

This is not a braking issue nor a drive wheel traction issue, it is an issue of lateral adhesion. (Cornering) The idea is to prevent the out of control 360s like Leonidis described.

With rear wheel drive cars there is no issue, as the drive wheels are also the wheels that need control.

We have only had FWD in the US for 50 years or so, (ignoring the old Cords). It can take a while to adjust attitudes to new realities.

Does anyone think that Costco and the others would risk customer displeasure as well as lawsuits if this were not well established?


Ha

You're correct about the lateral adhesion issue and I was hasty in thinking it related to acceration or braking. I read the tirerack.com rationale for keeping the better tires up front (even with RWD). I believe they specifically mentioned hydroplaning which is not a lateral adhesion-specific issue and thier "testing" was based tires that were never rotated (e.g. the rear tires were 50% worn) and it was done on a skidpad which does measure lateral adhesion. This suggests the "differential" between front and rear treadwear is significant as Costco's policy implies, but a 50% difference is not necessarily the same as 2/32nds. I expect to continue rotating my tires even if I have to do it myself or pay for it, but most retailers I deal with offer both rotation and balance for the life of the tire. It's just good practice to have the entire tread area and each sidewall visuall inspected frequently. I don't mess around with tires and have generally replaced before the wear bars are showing.

 

[ls99]

$ 0.02 worth.

Hydroplaning is largely a function of tire pressure. The lower the pressure the lower the hydroplaning speed.

 

[BigMoneyJim]

I am sitting at Discount Tire now. They also put new tires on the rear. Michelin has a video online about this, but I'm on slow public wifi so I can't preview and post it now. I bought my previous 2 new tires at DT in Jan 2009, and they put them on the front at my request. I don't recall if they balked at the time, so I'm guessing this new-tires-in-the-rear thing is new.

I get the strong impression the problem is that it's too easy to let the rear tires rot or go bald since you don't notice a problem on a FWD car until you catastrophically lose control. I was surprised to find my rear tires had 92K miles on them. (I asked the DT guy to check the date code on my tires, he said they're factory tires made in 2005.) They don't look that bad, and I was waffling on replacing them because there is still some tread left. But 5-6 years old and 92k miles, they're gone.

I was going to price shop, but then realized Discount Tire has never done me wrong, and they're all over the place unlike Costco. Plus I found myself ending the work day early near a DT. I did decline the road hazzard warranty this time, though. so avoid driving behind a silver Sonata because I'm sure somebody will be sprinkling nails in front of me soon.

 

[Lazarus]

I think the discount big box stores like Costco and Sams have about run their course. Dropped my Sams membership after 20 years or so. They have not asked me why.

 

[BigMoneyJim]

The Michelen new-tires-on-the-rear video:

YouTube - Michelin Tires - Tips

It's on their site, too: http://www.michelinman.com/tire-care/tire-basics/reartire-change/

They have different bits at the end. The YouTube one shows a police chase-cam wreck with the voiceover about the fleeing car having had recent new tires put on the front instead of the rear. I'm trying to imagine how that came out in the police interrogation. It would make a good Law & Order segment I'm sure.

The one on the Michelin site has several slides and voice instructions that I completely ignored and therefore can't characterize.

 

[rescueme]

I think the discount big box stores like Costco and Sams have about run their course. Dropped my Sams membership after 20 years or so. They have not asked me why.

Probably hard to find your address after going into the witness protection program ...

 

[ERD50]

The Michelen new-tires-on-the-rear video:

Thanks for the video, it helps re-confirm my stand on this (for me, not for others under different driving conditions).

I had to check carefully, but they did say new tires on the front, half-worn on the rear. New tires are ~ 10 to 11/32 tread depth, ( link ). So that would be a delta of over 5/32", while my delta would be 3/32", and even less as time goes on and the front wears.

The amount of time I spend on the road in hydroplane conditions is minuscule, and I am super careful about it - I've felt a car start to hydroplane before and it is scary. I wouldn't hit a curve like that at 45mph in this vehicle, I just wouldn't. And I don't do high speed chases with police either. But I will spend time on snowy roads, where that front traction is critical.

I'll take it up with Costco next week, I'll have the car more available then to either get Costco to waive this, take it somewhere else if they'll do it, or DIY it (DIM - Do It Myself?).

-ERD50

 

[haha]

Thanks for the video, it helps re-confirm my stand on this (for me, not for others under different driving conditions).

I had to check carefully, but they did say new tires on the front, half-worn on the rear. New tires are ~ 10 to 11/32 tread depth, ( link ). So that would be a delta of over 5/32", while my delta would be 3/32", and even less as time goes on and the front wears.

The amount of time I spend on the road in hydroplane conditions is minuscule, and I am super careful about it - I've felt a car start to hydroplane before and it is scary. I wouldn't hit a curve like that at 45mph in this vehicle, I just wouldn't. And I don't do high speed chases with police either. But I will spend time on snowy roads, where that front traction is critical.

I'll take it up with Costco next week, I'll have the car more available then to either get Costco to waive this, take it somewhere else if they'll do it, or DIY it (DIM - Do It Myself?).

-ERD50

You can't cure this!

 

[ls99]

You can't cure this!

+1

Way too funny.

 

[Leonidas]

The YouTube one shows a police chase-cam wreck with the voiceover about the fleeing car having had recent new tires put on the front instead of the rear. I'm trying to imagine how that came out in the police interrogation. It would make a good Law & Order segment I'm sure.

Just guessing here, but I'm betting that it came up in the whole dude-got-killed-running-from-the-pohleece investigation. Not that I'm a 100% certain of it from watching it on some grainy Youtube video, but that looked like it ought to have been a fatality to me.

So, here's my recollection of what I learned about hydroplaning from pursuit driving and intermediate accident investigator's schools that I took a long time ago:

• Hydroplaning can start at lower speeds, but just about any tire on any car is going to start hydroplaning by around 50 MPH when it's raining.
• When hydroplaning starts is based on a combination of factors: speed, tread depth, tire inflation and water depth. It might be influenced by other factors, but I think these are the big ones.
• The more severe any one of the above four factors, the lower the speed at which hydroplaning starts.
• The more severe any one of the above four factors and the greater the degree of hydroplaning occurs. A car traveling at 60 MPH, with good tread and good inflation will have a small percentage of tread no longer in contact. The same car, speed, but with poor tread could have almost no tire surface still in contact with the road.

If you double click on the video and go to Youtube, there is only one comment, but it's interesting and very on-topic:

If anyone who shops at costco for tires please watch this video carefully and listen because everything in this video are facts not opinions. So please quit giving us a hard time about why the two new tires belong in the rear of the vehicle and watch the video. Thank You we at costco just try to follow all proper procedures and safety policies not to protect our jobs but to make sure that the member leaves safe at all times.

Considering that the vast majority of drivers have a very limited performance envelope, I guess if I was Costco et.al. I might be a bit worried about unleashing John Doe out into the world with less tread on the rear tires. We are a litigious people in this country (it's always someone else's fault) that I'm not sure a waiver would be enough to absolve them.

 

[ERD50]

You can't cure this!

heh-heh - At first I wasn't 100% sure if you were talking about curing the tire condition, or my condition. I'm pretty sure now. That's OK .

So, here's my recollection of what I learned about hydroplaning from pursuit driving and intermediate accident investigator's schools that I took a long time ago:
...

If you double click on the video and go to Youtube, there is only one comment, but it's interesting and very on-topic:

If anyone who shops at costco for tires please watch this video carefully and listen because everything in this video are facts not opinions. So please quit giving us a hard time about why the two new tires belong in the rear of the vehicle and watch the video. Thank You we at costco just try to follow all proper procedures and safety policies not to protect our jobs but to make sure that the member leaves safe at all times.

Thanks for all that background on hydroplaning. Makes sense.

I can also see Costco taking a stance from a 'we are a big national company and we need rules' stand. And I won't be surprised if they say NO, on that basis.

The problem I still have is that they should have this in writing (it's not even on their web site if you go looking for it) and make you aware of it when they tell you "free rotations". It would have pushed me to get them rotated sooner and avoided this hassle (though I'd still prefer to have 3/32" more tread on the front going into winter than the other way round). I think this is what is getting people PO'd - it comes out after the fact.

And I am still sticking to my personal decision (even if I have to DIY it) to get these rotated. Yes, the video and all this info make sense - for hydroplaning. And I will be super careful in those conditions. But in snow, when you are trying to get started from a stop sign on an incline, you aren't having issues with the rear end swinging on a FWD. You just need traction. Same with stopping down an incline, FW are doing the braking. Once I get going under those conditions, I am also be super careful so that I'm not going so fast that the rear end would be swinging out anyway. Yes, people pass me and I let them.

edit/add: Let me throw this in for additional clarity - if this was late winter/spring, I'd do exactly as Costco is advising, as rain is more likely than snow at that point. That would leave me with the most tread on the back by the end of Fall, so I'd be able to maximize my tread depth on the Front for Winter! Just what I need!

-ERD50

 

[youbet]

So, are you sorry you procrastinated on getting your tires rotated now?

 

[ERD50]

So, are you sorry you procrastinated on getting your tires rotated now?

Yes from the hassle factor. No from my stance of having deeper tread in front for winter.

And it wasn't exactly procrastination (although I excel at that). We were considering replacing the van last year, so I just didn't bother following a schedule at the time. And this tread delta really isn't that great (3/32"). It's not like I went way over-due on it (again, Costco stops at 2/32" these are 3/32"). Once we didn't sell or give it away, i should have - and that's what I'm trying to do now.

-ERD50