HVAC/Heat Pump repair price- reasonable or ripoff?

gromit said:
I replaced the A/C during a heatwave. The installers ordered it from the supplier, and when they went to pick it up the supplier realized they didn't have it. The supplier decided to give them the next step up unit, 1 higher seer, that included a heat pump reversing valve for no extra charge. So the heat pump wasn't ordered, I just ended up with having it available on the unit.
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Maybe that is why.... you paid for an AC, not a heat pump so they hooked it up as an AC and not a heat pump...
 
Texas Proud said:
Maybe that is why.... you paid for an AC, not a heat pump so they hooked it up as an AC and not a heat pump...
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The installer was the person that told me about the reversing valve and that he would install it to use it. The thermostat required the use of an additonal wire beyond the old setup, and I walked him through the thermostat configuration routine that included some heat pump specific choices (Ecobee thermostat).
 
samclem said:
- Gas furnaces are less expensive than AC units, and considerably less expensive than heat pumps. Gas furnaces also tend to give less trouble. If the cost is nearly the same, I'd prefer to heat with gas and get a longer life from the AC unit.
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+1000

I live on the Canadian prairies...-35 for days on end is normal. It costs me about $400 per YEAR to heat my 1000 square foot house with gas. Of course, we probably have higher insulation levels and double pane windows are the minimum, many people (myself included) have triple pane.

No one around here uses anything other than gas unless they have no choice.
 
Music Lover said:
+1000

I live on the Canadian prairies...-35 for days on end is normal. It costs me about $400 per YEAR to heat my 1000 square foot house with gas. Of course, we probably have higher insulation levels and double pane windows are the minimum, many people (myself included) have triple pane.

No one around here uses anything other than gas unless they have no choice.
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Well, obviously Canadian prairies climate differs a bit from Georgia (US).
 
samclem said:
^I would do this. ^
- Gas furnaces are less expensive than AC units, and considerably less expensive than heat pumps. Gas furnaces also tend to give less trouble. If the cost is nearly the same, I'd prefer to heat with gas and get a longer life from the AC unit.
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I'm leaning in this direction too, considering the added wear on the expensive outdoor unit from using it year round.
 
JoeWras said:
Well, obviously Canadian prairies climate differs a bit from Georgia (US).
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Of course...I was simply pointing out the benefits of gas heat. The OP already has gas heat, so they might as well use it if it's in god working condition.
 
gromit said:
Thanks for that comment. Looks like I need to fix my location in my profile. I moved to Tennessee. :)
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:) I wonder what they heat with in the other Georgia? :)


Music Lover said:
Of course...I was simply pointing out the benefits of gas heat. The OP already has gas heat, so they might as well use it if it's in god working condition.
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Yeah. Gotcha. Do they even sell heat pumps up there? Maybe Vancouver? Seems like heat pumps would be terrible in most of Canada.
 
JoeWras said:
Yeah. Gotcha. Do they even sell heat pumps up there? Maybe Vancouver? Seems like heat pumps would be terrible in most of Canada.
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I don't know of any heat pumps in residential use around here, but perhaps there could be some commercial applications I'm not aware of.
 
gromit said:
The installer was the person that told me about the reversing valve and that he would install it to use it. The thermostat required the use of an additonal wire beyond the old setup, and I walked him through the thermostat configuration routine that included some heat pump specific choices (Ecobee thermostat).
Click to expand...


Well, then I was wrong... but that puts you back to it being installed incorrectly and them coming back to fix their error for FREE...


It is not like something broke... and if it did I would think it would still be under warranty for both parts and service...
 
Here is a question that someone might know the answer...


When you use gas heat you are using a flame... that dries out the air and creates static....


Does a heat pump dry out the air? IOW, would having a heat pump heat make the air inside 'better' than with gas?
 
Texas Proud said:
Here is a question that someone might know the answer...


When you use gas heat you are using a flame... that dries out the air and creates static....


Does a heat pump dry out the air? IOW, would having a heat pump heat make the air inside 'better' than with gas?
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It makes no difference, if we are talking about a modern high-efficiency furnace.
In a modern furnace, the flame and all elements of the combustion process are sealed off from the indoor air. The air inside the home has lower relative humidity only because it is warmer, and it doesn't matter how that air is heated. Unless you take steps to add water to the air inside, it will be dry (compared to the outside air) if it is warmed.
In an old-style gas furnace (that uses interior air for combustion and a conventional flue with a draft hood), the home with gas heat would have slightly lower humidity than a home heated with a heat pump. These furnaces are sending inside air to the outdoors, this air is replaced by outside air that comes in through leaks in the home's envelope. This greater air exchange with the outside (compared to, say, a home with a heat pump or resistance electric heat) tends to lower residential interior RH in the winter, since moisture released by human respiration, washing dishes and clothes, showering/bathing, etc. is removed and replaced by dry air from the outside (which becomes even more dry as it warms up inside the house). But none of this is because flames are doing any drying of air. In fact, in homes that use open combustion gas room heaters, humidity is often quite high.
Combustion gases have a lot of water vapor in them (and some CO, too)
 
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samclem has it all right. Heating method doesn't matter.

We use winter to make soups and stews. Helps indoor humidity a lot.
 
Texas Proud said:
Well, then I was wrong... but that puts you back to it being installed incorrectly and them coming back to fix their error for FREE...

It is not like something broke... and if it did I would think it would still be under warranty for both parts and service...
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Actually, it appears that the installer put in a heat pump to replace an air conditioner and only hooked it up to the extent that it replaces the air conditioning function. While having full functionality as a heat pump would be nice, it appears that wasn't the agreement, if I understand this correctly. It would have been best to have it clarified when the original work was done, but it sounds like it was an emergency installation.
 
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gromit said:
The installer was the person that told me about the reversing valve and that he would install it to use it. The thermostat required the use of an additonal wire beyond the old setup, and I walked him through the thermostat configuration routine that included some heat pump specific choices (Ecobee thermostat).
Click to expand...

travelover said:
Actually, it appears that the installer put in a heat pump to replace an air conditioner and only hooked it up to the extent that it replaces the air conditioning function. While having full functionality as a heat pump would be nice, it appears that wasn't the agreement, if I understand this correctly. It would have been best to have it clarified when the original work was done, but it sounds like it was an emergency installation.
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That was my first thought and it was shot down by the OP.... I have copied his answer...
 
Thanks to everyone for the replies. I'm glad to see that there wasn't a chorus of voices telling me that $2800 is a good rate for a zone panel. I've taken a bunch of the advice here and I plan to talk to the company owner.

In terms of whether to use the AC unit as a heat pump in winter, I'm thinking I would rather just use the 90% gas furnace. A ballpark set of numbers on an HVAC forum showed that the heat pump savings were ok, but not as much as I would've guessed. When I factor in the additional hours use of the AC unit and therefore earlier replacement, the savings shrink a lot.

I also realized one additional factor is important to me. The AC unit is right beside the master bedroom window. During the summer its usually cool enough inside to cut down the AC at bedtime and then the unit rarely cycles on overnight. However, if I'm using the unit as a heat pump it would cycle on/off quite a bit at night throughout the winter. Its not disturbing to hear the unit running, but the abrupt on/off noises it makes are louder and might be bothersome.

Once I get everything resolved, or if I need further help along the way, I will update the thread. Thanks again.
 
OH, also, the $2800 for zoned is way overpriced if that was all you wanted... mine cost a few hundred and then had to pay for the dampers...




Edit to add.... I am surprised it is so noisy.... mine is very quiet... it is variable, but there are times I can stand right next to it and barely hear it... and I do NOT have the quiet mode on... I just found out today looking at menus that there IS a quiet mode....
 
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Music Lover said:
I don't know of any heat pumps in residential use around here, but perhaps there could be some commercial applications I'm not aware of.
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Heat Pumps are okay down to the high 30's, but then an electric coil will kick in and warm the house. They are intended for middle American and south, especially to homes without any natural gas service. Heat pumps are very efficient on a/c, but maybe less efficient when cold temperatures kick in those big electric coils. I say you'd see no heat pumps north of Indianapolis.
 
I live in the Northeast -north of Boston and heat pumps are all that one sees in new construction these days, despite our colder climate. We are planning on installing AC next year and discovered that unless you have only one head, it isn't possible to install a heat pump system that does not also include heat. I was told the additional cost of the heat component is minimal (Mitsubishi). After quizzing three different installers while shopping for prices, we found that the heat pumps are more efficient for heat than our oil fired Bedarus, presuming that prices for oil are $1.50 or more. That number goes up a bit, to $2.00, as I recall, as the temperature goes down. Heating oil is recently around $2.75.


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The original company who installed it this summer should fix any issue you are having now at no charge. It has to still be under the warranty from earlier this year.
 
Also you are way better off heating with your gas furnace anytime it is below 60 degrees outside.
 
Golden sunsets said:
I live in the Northeast -north of Boston and heat pumps are all that one sees in new construction these days, despite our colder climate. We are planning on installing AC next year and discovered that unless you have only one head, it isn't possible to install a heat pump system that does not also include heat. I was told the additional cost of the heat component is minimal (Mitsubishi). After quizzing three different installers while shopping for prices, we found that the heat pumps are more efficient for heat than our oil fired Bedarus, presuming that prices for oil are $1.50 or more. That number goes up a bit, to $2.00, as I recall, as the temperature goes down. Heating oil is recently around $2.75.
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Just to be clear, you are talking about a mini-split system, which is different from what the rest of this thread is about.


If it gets cold enough that the heat pump system can't keep your house warm, it will need to start using electric resistance heat. It would be a good idea to have a HELOC open to cover the electric bill in that case.:)


The newer heat pumps (mini-splits and "regular" split units) >can< work at lower outside temps than the older ones, but it still has some negative attributes. The air coming out of the inside units will not be as warm as the air from your present oil furnace, and of course it won't be going to all the rooms that are now serviced by your ducts/registers. Your equipment will be running a lot, and a mini-split system with multiple heads has more fans, sensors, valves etc that will eventually require maintenance (compared to a "regular" ducted split system). How long will the equipment last if the compressor is running almost constantly in the winter + the workout it gets in the summer? You get some snow in Boston, so if you go with the heat pump, be sure to keep the snow off/away from your outside unit.
 
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