I have COVID-19 and No, It's Not the Flu

[Another Reader]

Does the disappearance of antibodies over a relatively short time mean the person could become infected again? If so, what is the point of collecting the serum antibodies from people who have recovered from COVID? My son was asked to donate, and he did, but now I am wondering just how useful it will be.

It sounds like your son donated what is called convalescent plasma because he exhibited strong antibodies. That convalescent plasma was or will be given to a very sick hospitalized patient in hopes the antibodies will kill the virus and lighten the course of the disease. So many people in New York have donated that Mt. Sinai hospital is using it on anyone that is admitted with severe symptoms.

No one is really sure what disappearing antibodies means in term of immunity yet. It's possible the immune system retains a 'memory" of the infection and will deal with another exposure more effectively. It's also possible that no long term immunity is conferred. One thing is clear. There will be no immunity "passports" based on antibodies.

ETA: MissMolly - Your son may have saved someone's life with his plasma.

 

[Another Reader]

Is there any evidence/indication/speculation that subsequent exposure would generate a greater number of antibodies, (than the initial exposure produced), more rapidly?

Not yet. There are a few anecdotal stories about people being infected a second time. No one is sure if those people were reinfected or if the virus had reactivated. A couple of people were sicker the second time around and died.

 

[Another Reader]

One theory floating around is that some people fight this virus with T-cells and never produce antibodies. All this will be hashed out over time.

The efficacy of vaccines is really not known yet. One treatment is looking promising, and that is monoclonal antibodies. Those are made in the lab and do not involve the dangers of plasma transfusions. I read that at least one is in an early clinical trial. The treatment will be very pricey, at least at first.

 

[gattara]

Thank you for sharing details about your experience, AR. I'm sorry for all that you have been through. It's obvious you've been educating yourself through various avenues and I appreciate you sharing your knowledge. I feel you are doing a public service. Wishing the best for you and your recovery.

 

[audreyh1]

Does the disappearance of antibodies over a relatively short time mean the person could become infected again? If so, what is the point of collecting the serum antibodies from people who have recovered from COVID? My son was asked to donate, and he did, but now I am wondering just how useful it will be.

Convalescent plasma therapy, or whatever they call it, does work for COVID-19. Thus requests for donations from people with antibodies.

 

[Janet H]

I joined this forum in order to read AR's story. I duly read and agreed to the terms, particularly all of the warnings to "be nice". I come from a forum that plays a little looser with that rule, so I really expected that people would be different here. Instead, certain people were brutal. AR is very sick and is using their precious life energy to try to alert others so they may avoid the same fate. That people on a "nice" forum were so challenging/disbelieving of AR's experience was particularly upsetting.

Thanks for your comments and welcome to the forum. we work hard to find a balance between open discussion while maintaining a civil platform. it's a tough row to hoe because everyones idea of "nice" varies - sometime widely.

If you see a problem, hit the report post button on the post and let us know why - we take the "be nice" edict seriously and consider all complaints.

 

[REWahoo]

... it's a tough row to hoe because everyones idea of "nice" varies - sometime widely.

So true.

Here's an example that may help.

While I think telling someone "You're full of sh*t!" is definitely not nice, pointing out "It appears your fecalibrium is off balance" does meet the "nice" standard - just barely.

 

[rodi]

You would be slightly more likely to show antibodies than the virus itself at this point. If they are offering antibody tests, you might want to get that.

This is Kaiser.... pay for an optional test? Bwa ha hahaha. They have a long article on why they don't offer antibody tests at this point... basically - none are reliable - too many false positives and false negatives.

 

[rodi]

I joined this forum in order to read AR's story. I duly read and agreed to the terms, particularly all of the warnings to "be nice". I come from a forum that plays a little looser with that rule, so I really expected that people would be different here. Instead, certain people were brutal. AR is very sick and is using their precious life energy to try to alert others so they may avoid the same fate. That people on a "nice" forum were so challenging/disbelieving of AR's experience was particularly upsetting.

If someone is telling a personal story on their own thread, who has the right to tell them they are wrong? By the time I finished reading, my blood was boiling. Perhaps my marbles comment wasn't nice enough, and if anyone's sensibilities were offended, I truly apologize. Perhaps I shall be the one to take my marbles elsewhere. I never really put them down here. I just wanted to support my friend.

A few people have expressed skepticism, many more have been supportive, asking questions, wishing AR well. Those that expressed skepticism were polite, albeit direct. That fits within the rules. There is no rule that says people must all agree. There was no name calling.

 

[Mark1]

Is there any evidence/indication/speculation that subsequent exposure would generate a greater number of antibodies, (than the initial exposure produced), more rapidly?

Typically after your first exposure to an antigen, your body develop lymphocytes called memory cells The next time your body see that same antigen, your memory cells quickly go into action and produce orders of magnitude more antibodies then during your first exposure. Also, the number of antibodies in your system declines very rapidly after your first exposure, whereas, the antibody count after your second exposure stays high for months this time around. This is why immunizations are usually accomplished by injection of antigen in multiple doses with periods of weeks or months in between injections.

 

[Nemo2]

Typically after your first exposure to an antigen, your body develop lymphocytes called memory cells The next time your body see that same antigen, your memory cells quickly go into action and produce orders of magnitude more antibodies then during your first exposure. Also, the number of antibodies in your system declines very rapidly after your first exposure, whereas, the antibody count after your second exposure stays high for months this time around. This is why immunizations are usually accomplished by injection of antigen in multiple doses with periods of weeks or months in between injections.

This is basically, (and I'm very basic, thoughtwise), what I was anticipating....thanks!

 

[11522914]

A few people have expressed skepticism, many more have been supportive, asking questions, wishing AR well. Those that expressed skepticism were polite, albeit direct. That fits within the rules. There is no rule that says people must all agree. There was no name calling.

+1

That is why I enjoy this forum

 

[bmcgonig]

This is Kaiser.... pay for an optional test? Bwa ha hahaha. They have a long article on why they don't offer antibody tests at this point... basically - none are reliable - too many false positives and false negatives.

If you're interested the Abbott antibody test is almost 100% specific. In fact a group in UK tested it and found it 100%. Best of luck.

 

[Amethyst]

If they attack AR's credibility, the thinking goes, then what happened to AR should not happen to them.

Instead, certain people were brutal. AR is very sick and is using their precious life energy to try to alert others so they may avoid the same fate. That people on a "nice" forum were so challenging/disbelieving of AR's experience was particularly upsetting.

.

 

[Another Reader]

If you're interested the Abbott antibody test is almost 100% specific. In fact a group in UK tested it and found it 100%. Best of luck.

Test claims are irrelevant here. Antibodies disappear quickly, if they are formed at all. Rodi is three months out from the beginning of her symptoms. Chances are that antibodies will not be measurable.

 

[athena53]

Test claims are irrelevant here. Antibodies disappear quickly, if they are formed at all. Rodi is three months out from the beginning of her symptoms. Chances are that antibodies will not be measurable.

First, I appreciate your sharing your story as well as the scary articles on the lingering effects some survivors have. It's reminded me that I need to continue to be vigilant, especially since rate of people testing positive in my area is increasing alarmingly. It was 2% week of 6/5 and has steadily increased to 6.5% week of 6/26. As with other areas of the US, the increase seems to be among younger people and related to the reopening of bars.

Interesting contrast between two blood banks in my area. The one where I donate is not testing for COVID-19; according to their FB page they're not sure it's all that useful. Last week I was on site for a blood drive by the American Red Cross at my church. I couldn't donate because I just had at the other place 4 weeks ago, but the Red Cross one offered COVID-19 tests, with results to be available on-line in a week or so. All the appointments were taken and we got 24 units, which is twice the usual total. I felt a bit bad because some of our regulars weren't able to get appointments because people who ordinarily don't bother to donate suddenly showed up in droves. It's all good, I suppose- they need the blood and maybe they can ID some potential convalescent plasma donors.

I'm not in a rush to get tested- have not had any symptoms and don't know what I'd do with the results.

 

[Another Reader]

There hasn't been an overwhelming amount of interest in this story, so I will make the rest of it short. After being discharged from Stanford, I went through the specialists at PAMF. The cardiologist cleared my heart, stating the tachycardia and shortness of breath was not heart-related. Did the zio monitor to verify no irregularities. By then the tachycardia was improving anyway.

Next up was infectious disease. In New York and in other urban areas that have had huge numbers of COVID cases, doctors understand that a positive virus and/or antibody test are not the only indicators that a patient has COVID. They have seen many patients that did not test positive on the tests. Out here, most infectious disease doctors, particularly at the beginning of June, had only seen the hospitalized pneumonia cases, the expected presentation. Their experience with patients was to get a positive test, hospitalize the critically ill, look for antibodies as they recover, and get positive antibody tests. His opinion was I did not have COVID. It was obvious I was sick, so he went over my health background, and tested me for numerous other diseases I did not have. That was a waste of time and money, as nothing was found.

The neurologist was one of the worst doctors I have ever seen. He did a 30 second exam, stated he looked at the Stanford work up, and nothing was found. He then said I probably had low serotonin and offered to prescribe Zoloft "to make me feel better."

This was a short conversation. I'm a professional, and do not lose my temper with other professionals. I did this time. I got up and left.

Since then, I have seen the primary care doctor once. She was alarmed at my condition. I have lost 15 percent of my body weight, have trouble walking, and have the skin of a 75 year old. She ordered more blood work, and offered to refer me back to Stanford neurology.

My condition continues to worsen. The symptom list grows. I am weaker and less able to function. The visiting nurse is concerned as well. Over the last two months, I have cleaned up the estate paperwork. I will continue to press for better care, but I don't hold out much hope of getting it. Thousands of people in the support groups are in the same situation.

The irony is that in Britain, very few people were tested. Diagnoses were presumptive. People are being treated based on symptoms, not on faulty tests. In this country, having a positive test, virus or antibody, determines how you are treated. A lot of people will suffer and die as a result.

 

[audreyh1]

Yes we are interested and want to know how you are doing! Please keep us updated.

Your story is very sad so far. How frustrating! I'm so sorry that you are not improving!

 

[harllee]

AR, I am very interested in your situation and I think many others on this Forum are too. I have 3 friends that are having long term effects from Covid 19 (although not as bad as yours) and I have told them about you and sent them your links. Please keep us updated on your condition. I am very concerned about you and you are in my prayers.

 

[spncity]

If you sort by the number of views, you are Page 1 news in the COVID section with more than 8,800 views. We're interested.

 

[rodi]

AR - what a nightmare. I'm glad your PCP is paying attention and that you have supportive services like a visiting nurse. Sorry to hear the neurologist was an a$$hat.

I have some good news in my little world. The ciclesonide inhaler seems to be working on my lung/chest tightness and shortness of breath. I'm not getting winded with simple tasks after 5 days of treatment. I'd say I'm at about 75% better.

I hope that they can figure out a treatment for your neuro issues and other symptoms.

 

[gattara]

Add me to the list of people interested in your experience, AR.

 

[Lsbcal]

If you sort by the number of views, you are Page 1 news in the COVID section with more than 8,800 views. We're interested.

Good comment.

 

[Another Reader]

There is a public Facebook group for COVID called Survivor Corps. It has 62,000 members. It's not well moderated, so you have to look through the posts to find the ones that are interesting or helpful. If you scroll through and read some of the posts, you can get a feel for what people are experiencing.

 

[Teacher Terry]

I hope that the referral is to a different neurologist at Stanford. The first one sounds horrible. Sending lots of love and light for a recovery.