Is All Purpose Flour Really All Purpose?

[easysurfer]

I made a pizza recently. Reading, the description said many people use bread flour instead of all purpose. So, I went ahead and used bread flour.

The result did seem a bit better than all purpose. Or maybe that was just in my mind.

I found a recipe for banana bread. The recipe called for self-rising flour. I went ahead a bought self-rising flour. But now I'm asking myself, could I use all purpose flour instead?

Sure would seem easier just using one swiss army knife flour instead of buying different types and running out of kitchen cabinet space storing them.

 

[ScoopKona]

Bread flour has more gluten than AP. You can buy vital wheat gluten and mix it in with AP to approximate bread flour. European 00 flour is the gold-standard for making pizza dough. It has the consistency of powder and is made for long fermentations.

Self-rising flour is flour with baking powder and fine salt added. You can mix these in and duplicate self-rising.

There is also cake flour, barley flour, rye flour and dozens of other specialty flours -- all of which are necessary to make the perfect bagel/pretzel/baguette/etc.

 

[easysurfer]

Bread flour has more gluten than AP. You can buy vital wheat gluten and mix it in with AP to approximate bread flour. European 00 flour is the gold-standard for making pizza dough. It has the consistency of powder and is made for long fermentations.

Self-rising flour is flour with baking powder and fine salt added. You can mix these in and duplicate self-rising.

There is also cake flour, barley flour, rye flour and dozens of other specialty flours -- all of which are necessary to make the perfect bagel/pretzel/baguette/etc.

Thanks.

Sounds like all purpose should be renamed some purpose .

 

[ScoopKona]

Sounds like all purpose should be renamed some purpose .

There are loads of products in the food world that are sold not because they are good, but because they are good enough.

That being said, there isn't a restaurant in the country* that doesn't buy AP flour by the ton. It is as necessary for a restaurant as glue for a cabinet shop. But a restaurant that contains a pastry brigade is going to have dozens of different flours.


* Well, gluten-free restaurants aside.

 

[easysurfer]

There are loads of products in the food world that are sold not because they are good, but because they are good enough.

That being said, there isn't a restaurant in the country* that doesn't buy AP flour by the ton. It is as necessary for a restaurant as glue for a cabinet shop. But a restaurant that contains a pastry brigade is going to have dozens of different flours.


* Well, gluten-free restaurants aside.

How about for the home?

 

[GalaxyBoy]

The difference is in the protein level. Bread flour has a high protein level which means more gluten is produced, making bread chewy and stretchy. A lower gluten level is desirable for biscuits, for example, where a flaky rather than chewy texture is needed, so I use APF. Pastry flour is lower in protein, and cake flour is the lowest.

I make sourdough bread once per week so I keep bread flour on hand in addition to APF which I use for most other things. I make pancakes once per week that use WW pastry flour, but I find that a bit much so I mix it with APF. Then there's 100% whole wheat, which I use at about 10% in my standard bread recipe, and is used in other things. I need to try white WW, but haven't yet.

I also have some potato flour, brown rice flour, and almond flour in the pantry but those are another story.

 

[ScoopKona]

How about for the home?

Depends on what you want to make. And your standards.

We can make something approximating pizza using just AP flour. We can make something close to New York pizza using bread flour. We can dive down the rabbit hole and make something close to Neapolitan pizza using 00 flour (and canned San Marzano tomatoes, carefully sourced olive oil, real buffalo mozzarella and similar). At that point, though, there's probably going to be some masonry work involved.

Most food products are sold because it will satisfy the average consumer. Olive Oil is notoriously faked. Most* of the oil on US supermarket shelves is either adulterated or an outright counterfeit made from vegetable oil and chlorophyll.

It is a good thing that most people don't pay attention, because "the good stuff" costs so much already. If everyone demanded actual, unblended olive oil, the price would skyrocket. Much of the world's luxury foodstuffs have a counterfeit problem -- coffee, truffles, caviar, wine. There is always a manufacturer willing to bait-and-switch.

* Yes, more than half.

 

[easysurfer]

Depends on what you want to make. And your standards.

We can make something approximating pizza using just AP flour. We can make something close to New York pizza using bread flour. We can dive down the rabbit hole and make something close to Neapolitan pizza using 00 flour (and canned San Marzano tomatoes, carefully sourced olive oil, real buffalo mozzarella and similar). At that point, though, there's probably going to be some masonry work involved.

Most food products are sold because it will satisfy the average consumer. Olive Oil is notoriously faked. Most* of the oil on US supermarket shelves is either adulterated or an outright counterfeit made from vegetable oil and chlorophyll.

It is a good thing that most people don't pay attention, because "the good stuff" costs so much already. If everyone demanded actual, unblended olive oil, the price would skyrocket. Much of the world's luxury foodstuffs have a counterfeit problem -- coffee, truffles, caviar, wine. There is always a manufacturer willing to bait-and-switch.

* Yes, more than half.

Thanks. Helpful discussion.

 

[Dreamer]

ScoopKona,

Is their a brand of olive oil that you can recommend that is not faked?

 

[ScoopKona]

ScoopKona,

Is their a brand of olive oil that you can recommend that is not faked?

A brand? No. You can't trust places year over year. The absolutely virgin cold press this year could be a blend next year. You can't trust the label. You can't trust the store. You can't trust the country of origin. It's the X-files of food -- trust no one.

The best way is to find a producer -- there are loads in California, Texas and Georgia. Any small producer is going to be more expensive than the blends sold in supermarkets. But it also makes zero sense for them to adulterate their product. In general, the family farm authenticity is unimpeachable.

The easiest way is to know the difference. I have always explained it that the difference between fake olive oil and the real deal is the same as the difference between "table syrup" and real maple syrup.

When the Italian authorities bust a counterfeit oil ring, it's always the same -- "it tastes like nothing." Fake oil has no flavor at all. If you happen by a place that prides itself on the quality of their oil, do a tasting. Even though there is as much variety of flavors as there is in wine, all of them taste like olive oil.

The problem is so bad that you can take a bottle/tin of olive oil back to the supermarket, demand that it is a counterfeit, and the store will quickly (and quietly) refund your money. Fake olive oil is one of the worst-kept secrets in the food world. Sadly, there are dozens of products which are similarly faked. Fraud is rife.

 

[RetMD21]

The result did seem a bit better than all purpose. Or maybe that was just in my mind.

My impression as well. Our crust is better than the local pizza places either way. I don't find it practical to always stock multiple varieties.

 

[aja8888]

A brand? No. You can't trust places year over year. The absolutely virgin cold press this year could be a blend next year. You can't trust the label. You can't trust the store. You can't trust the country of origin. It's the X-files of food -- trust no one.

The best way is to find a producer -- there are loads in California, Texas and Georgia. Any small producer is going to be more expensive than the blends sold in supermarkets. But it also makes zero sense for them to adulterate their product. In general, the family farm authenticity is unimpeachable.

The easiest way is to know the difference. I have always explained it that the difference between fake olive oil and the real deal is the same as the difference between "table syrup" and real maple syrup.

When the Italian authorities bust a counterfeit oil ring, it's always the same -- "it tastes like nothing." Fake oil has no flavor at all. If you happen by a place that prides itself on the quality of their oil, do a tasting. Even though there is as much variety of flavors as there is in wine, all of them taste like olive oil.

The problem is so bad that you can take a bottle/tin of olive oil back to the supermarket, demand that it is a counterfeit, and the store will quickly (and quietly) refund your money. Fake olive oil is one of the worst-kept secrets in the food world. Sadly, there are dozens of products which are similarly faked. Fraud is rife.

When I lived in New England in the 1970's, my neighbors and I tapped about 100 maple trees every late winter and drew sap when the trees let go of it. We then made our own maple syrup and maple candy from the hundreds of gallons we drew. There is NO COMPARISON between the real stuff and fake imitation.

But only one would know if they did a taste test. I would guess it's the same with olive oil.

 

[ScoopKona]

But only one would know if they did a taste test. I would guess it's the same with olive oil.

Precisely the same. Fake olive oil is to quality real olive oil what Mrs. Butterworth's is to real maple syrup.

If you do a deep dive into why this continues, it is rather depressing. "We have met the enemy and he is us."

 

[aja8888]

Precisely the same. Fake olive oil is to quality real olive oil what Mrs. Butterworth's is to real maple syrup.

If you do a deep dive into why this continues, it is rather depressing. "We have met the enemy and he is us."

Thanks, I've enjoyed reading your comments on food and other topics. It's a treat to have a chef on the forums as there are always a lot of food/cooking type discussions.

Good luck with your Hawaii adventure!

 

[walkinwood]

To make matters worse, not all All Purpose Flours are created equal. King Arthur's AP flour has a pretty high gluten content & works quite well for breads and pizzas. Some other brands may not work so well.


I bake a lot of bread and try to stick to one make of bread flour - King Arthur in my case - but even that seems to change year to year. After all, it is an agricultural product & the wheat "quality" differs year to year. For a home baker, its not a big deal - just something that I notice.


We buy bread flour & Whole wheat in 5 lb bags. We go through AP fast enough that the 20lb twin-bag (Central Mills) from Costco works out well. Any other flour called for (eg. Rye), we'll buy in the smallest quantity available.

 

[walkinwood]

ScoopKona,

Is their a brand of olive oil that you can recommend that is not faked?

I've read that Costco is a reliable supplier - but I'm no expert.

 

[ScoopKona]

To make matters worse, not all All Purpose Flours are created equal.

Spot on.

It is better to buy flour that lists the moisture and protein contents. But the people who do that are making recipes that are basically gibberish to the home baker. Past a certain point everything switches from weights (or ack! volume) to percentages. Dough conditioners come into play. Terms like spring and crumb.

But the goal of such recipes is to create the same product over years using ingredients which vary season to season.

Perfectly good food can be made with off the shelf flour. And we have far more choices today than June Cleaver ever did.

The big-picture problem is that there are dozens of variables, and everything affects everything. For instance, there is a cookie recipe I love which can only be prepared on cold, dry days. They have the texture of a rice cake when done right, and they melt into a puddle of sugar and butter if anything is even a little off.

I just make peace with the idea that one out of 10 baking sessions is going to be a failure -- yielding either an inferior product, or compost. Even at the highest levels, there are failures. But as my favorite pastry chef always said, "Relax. It's bread. Not birth control."

 

[Dreamer]

Thanks for your expertise, ScoopKona. I appreciate your reply.

 

[Dreamer]

Thanks, WalkinWood for your reply. Unfortunately, we do not have a Costco nearby. I usually get my olive oil at Sam's Club.

 

[ScoopKona]

Thanks, WalkinWood for your reply. Unfortunately, we do not have a Costco nearby. I usually get my olive oil at Sam's Club.

Trust no one. I don't trust Costco or Sam's club, either.

The only strategy is knowing how quality, authentic oil tastes and rejecting everything else. In general, you can tell just from the price. Real cold press olive oil from a US family farm costs roughly $200 per gallon. So around $20-25 per 18 ounce bottle. (Oil is often sold in half-liters). If you are paying significantly less than that, the chances there is something off about the oil skyrockets.

I would hop on google, and find a US farm -- there are many in California, Texas and Georgia. Find the kind of farm where the owner is bottling oil today and one of his children answers the phone. Such people have no reason to adulterate their product -- they live and die on repeat business.

Buy some mail-order oil from them. And then compare to whatever you use now. (I don't recommend tasting with a spoon. Nobody guzzles olive oil. Dip some neutral bread in the oil and compare. I think that's the most fair comparison for real-world use.) You can also make two batches of mayonnaise, dressing, or any other olive oil recipe.

It is my experience that most people when experiencing the real deal for the first time prefer the flavorless oils -- they have become so accustomed to oil which tastes like nothing, oil with actual flavor hits their taste buds like a mallet.

Like maple syrup, there will likely be a weaning process to get used to the peppery, floral, and sometimes bitter flavors. (Bitter in a good way, like coffee.)

If I could point to a grocery store oil and say, "This is legit. I give my word" I would. I can't. They're all suspect. I have theories about why this decades-long scam continues -- each one less pleasant to discuss than the last.

 

[Chuckanut]

I wish that in the USA we measured flour by weight not volume. Weight is far more accurate.

I use AP flour for most baking. I make my own whole wheat flour by grinding Einkorn berries imported from Italy. Einkorn is supposed to have a weaker glutton which is tolerated better by those who are glutton sensitive (NOT full flown Celiacs disease). Making bread with it is a challenge as the flour makes for a VERY sticky dough. I found that the so-called no-knead methods work better for me.

 

[Jerry1]

My problem with olive oil, especially from Costco, is that the bottle is so large that there’s no way it doesn’t turn rancid before I can use it. I’ve resorted to buying much smaller bottles. There’s also a very nice spice and oil shop near us where you can taste test and buy small quantities. It’s just the two of us and while I’m no connoisseur it’s still worth it to but good ingredients. We eat very simple and cooking at home with better (probably not the “best”) is still better and cheaper than eating out.

 

[ScoopKona]

Einkorn is supposed to have a weaker glutton which is tolerated better by those who are glutton sensitive (NOT full flown Celiacs disease).

Sourdough. Fermented breads are much kinder to the gluten sensitive. There is evidence to suggest that the whole gluten sensitivity thing our society is now experiencing is a direct result of highly process yeast-only breads. (Think "Wonder.")

Michael Pollan devotes 20% of the book "Cooked" to this. While not a scholarly article, he footnotes his sources carefully. It's worth reading by any gluten-sensitive baker. I'm not particularly sensitive. But personal anecdotal experience tells me that long-fermented sourdough breads (they can even be yeast hybrid fermented breads) are kinder to me than yeast-only fast breads.

Besides, really good barbecue information in this book as well.

First thing I do any new place I'm going to spend time is make a starter.

 

[ScoopKona]

My problem with olive oil, especially from Costco, is that the bottle is so large that there’s no way it doesn’t turn rancid before I can use it. I’ve resorted to buying much smaller bottles. There’s also a very nice spice and oil shop near us where you can taste test and buy small quantities. It’s just the two of us and while I’m no connoisseur it’s still worth it to but good ingredients. We eat very simple and cooking at home with better (probably not the “best”) is still better and cheaper than eating out.

Probably the best way. If you know who produces the oil, even better. (The spice and oil store may or may not tell you. I'd want to know.)

If you buy larger quantities, keep it dark. Keep it cool. And keep air away.

I buy oil by the 3 or 5-liter tin when possible. I immediately decant that into opaque bottles -- all the way to the top. If I had a wine cellar, that would be good. (I don't.) So I put all but one into the back of the kegerator. And one for daily use. I have kept oil for months that way, with only minor quality degradation. Air, light and heat are the enemies of oils.

The reason I buy so much is that I use it. I don't buy salad dressing or mayonnaise. I make it. Mayonnaise was once called "the queen of sauces." I've never seen anyone dip a French fry into store-bought mayonnaise and exclaim, "Egad! This is the queen of sauces!" Even the best store-bought is inferior to homemade. I also use it as a finishing oil all over the place. Especially with making my own smoked salmon.

 

[pacergal]

I use all purpose flour for everything.
If I was really into bread making, I would use bread flour specifically for that purpose, more gluten, more "stretch".