Massive earthquake in Japan-tsunami warning

[JOHNNIE36]

If the nuclear reactors continue to fail and the efforts made to contain the radiation are not successful, Japan will be in for a bad time. Don't want to add more doom to the situation, but the photos are remarkable. I can't imagine going through something like that. Friend emailed me some more "before and afters" he down loaded. If interested, go to ABC News-Japan Earthquake: Before and After, for some great photos.

 

[Dimsumkid]

If the nuclear reactors continue to fail and the efforts made to contain the radiation are not successful, Japan will be in for a bad time. Don't want to add more doom to the situation, but the photos are remarkable. I can't imagine going through something like that. Friend emailed me some more "before and afters" he down loaded. If interested, go to ABC News-Japan Earthquake: Before and After, for some great photos.

Watched nightline last night. Japanese physicist stated theyre wasting time dropping water. Stated this could be worse than Chernobyl and recommended bombing the reactors with cement and boric acid(?) to seal them shut.

Wbbm radio chicago is reporting radiation alarms have been going off at o'hare airport today.

 

[Brat]

The only reason they would be going off at O'Hare is that passengers arriving from Japan haven't changed their clothes or had a shower.

 

[SteveNU]

Pulled this info from the IAEA website. This is a very recent update only 4 hours or so old. Sounds like they will have power soon. Based on this report they are making progress and the dose rates at 30km from the site are low.

Perspective on dose rates..... 10 microsieverts = 1mrem, so 170 microsieverts would be 17mrem. The normal annual occupational dose limit is 5 Rem or 5000 mrem.



Japanese Earthquake Update (17 March 17:55 UTC)

Japanese authorities have informed the IAEA that engineers were able to lay an external grid power line cable to unit 2. The operation was completed at 08:30 UTC.
They plan to reconnect power to unit 2 once the spraying of water on the unit 3 reactor building is completed.
The spraying of water on the unit 3 reactor building was temporarily stopped at 11:09 UTC (20:09 local time) of 17 March.
The IAEA continues to liaise with the Japanese authorities and is monitoring the situation as it evolves.
IAEA Briefing on the Fukushima Nuclear Emergency (17 March 2011, 14.00 UTC)

At the IAEA headquarters in Vienna, Graham Andrew, Special Adviser to the IAEA Director General on Scientific and Technical Affairs, briefed both Member States and the media on the current status of nuclear safety in Japan.
Current Situation
The situation at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plants remains very serious, but there has been no significant worsening since yesterday.
The current situation at Units 1, 2 and 3, whose cores have suffered damage, appears to be relatively stable. Sea water is being injected into all three units using fire extinguishing hoses. Containment pressures are fluctuating.
Military helicopters carried out four water drops over Unit 3.
Unit 4 remains a major safety concern. No information is available on the level of water in the spent fuel pool. No water temperature indication from the Unit 4 spent fuel pool has been received since March 14, when the temperature was 84 degrees C. No roof is in place.
The water levels in the reactor pressure vessels of Units 5 and 6 have been declining.
Radiation Monitoring
We are now receiving dose rate information from 47 Japanese cities regularly. This is a positive development. In Tokyo, there has been no significant change in radiation levels since yesterday. They remain well below levels which are dangerous to human health.
As far as on-site radiation levels at the Fukushima Daiichi and Daini nuclear power plants are concerned, we have received no new information since the last report.
In some locations at around 30km from the Fukushima plant, the dose rates rose significantly in the last 24 hours (in one location from 80 to 170 microsievert per hour and in another from 26 to 95 microsievert per hour). But this was not the case at all locations at this distance from the plants.
Dose rates to the north-west of the nuclear power plants, were observed in the range 3 to 170 microsievert per hour, with the higher levels observed around 30 km from the plant.
Dose rates in other directions are in the 1 to 5 microsievert per hour range.

 

[Gumby]

To add to Steve's report, here are two reports from today. The first, from the Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency of the Japanese Ministry of Economy Trade and Industry, indicates that the RPV water level in Units 1, 2 and 3 is about halfway up to the top of the fuel rods. (distance is in millimeters from top of fuel, negative numbers mean it is lower than the top of the fuel) By no means ideal, but better than it was. And stable, which is good.

http://www.nisa.meti.go.jp/english/files/en20110317-2.pdf

The second is from the Japanese Atomic Industrial Forum and it says essentially the same thing.

http://www.jaif.or.jp/english/news_images/pdf/ENGNEWS01_1300368041P.pdf

I looked at the pictures taken from the helicopters today. It appears that steam is rising from Unit 4. Since the unit was shut down and defueled at the time of the tsunami, the source of the steam would seem to be only the spent fuel pool, and the presence of the steam implies the presence of water in the pool. Maybe TEPCO was right and Chairman Jaczko of the NRC was wrong yesterday. In any event, they seem to be concentrating on the Unit 3 spent fuel pool today.

 

[samclem]

Watched nightline last night. Japanese physicist stated theyre wasting time dropping water. Stated this could be worse than Chernobyl and recommended bombing the reactors with cement and boric acid(?) to seal them shut.

I guess they just keep working their Roladex until they find someone who will say something totally irresponsible but exciting, then put that person in front of a camera.

 

[haha]

In any event, they seem to be concentrating on the Unit 3 spent fuel pool today.

If I remember correctly, that is the reactor that uses mixed oxide fuel containing plutonium. I believe that is where they are attempting to get an electrical hookup completed today, but I haven't seen any report of success, except one from last night which must have been in error.

Ha

 

[Gumby]

You are correct that Unit 3 uses MOX fuel. However, all the spent fuel in each unit has at least some plutonium in it, since plutonium is created as byproduct during the use of pure uranium fuel.

 

[haha]

I see. Thanks.

Ha

 

[BigNick]

I guess they just keep working their Roladex until they find someone who will say something totally irresponsible but exciting, then put that person in front of a camera.

This reminds me of what happened in the European heat wave of August 2003. French TV picked up on a story that more old people than usual were dying in the heat, at a time (double whammy) when half the medical personnel in the big cities were on vacation. For about ten days they escalated the number of estimated deaths, basically by this technique: phone half a dozen doctors or professors of something and whoever was prepared to come on TV and say the biggest number, got the gig.

Meanwhile, the same heat wave was affecting Spain, Italy, Belgium, Germany, etc. Apparently, not a single extra old person died in any of those countries, or at least, nobody noticed enough to declare a "wave of death" on national TV.

As a result of the "something must be done" hysteria, it was determined that something like 0.6% of GNP would be poured into, among other things, air-conditioning old folks' homes (most buildings in Europe don't have a/c). To pay for this, a national holiday was abolished; in theory, everyone works for free that day, out of "solidarity" (don't even think of asking how this works; 8 years on, they haven't even decided which holiday has been abolished). But that's just a footnote, really; once "the huge problem" had been identified, something silly was bound to happen. The real shame is that there really wasn't a major problem in the first place. Fragile old people die in heatwaves, a couple of months before they would anyway.

 

[Dimsumkid]

The only reason they would be going off at O'Hare is that passengers arriving from Japan haven't changed their clothes or had a shower.

Heard the report again, radiation detected on people, luggage and the airplane.

 

[TromboneAl]

The only reason they would be going off at O'Hare is that passengers arriving from Japan haven't changed their clothes or had a shower.

That's right.

Toyko Passengers Set Off Radiation Detectors at O

BTW, I know a guy whose body odor is so bad that it interferes with local radio transmissions.

 

[M Paquette]

Heard the report again, radiation detected on people, luggage and the airplane.

Oh, dear. I really, really hate to think of how those highly trained and compassionate TSA workers will handle this.

Edit: According to this, contamination was on cargo and luggage, not on passengers, and the level was very low. Luggage and cargo was all cleared and returned to passengers, and the planes were cleared to go.

 

[joesxm3]

Seems like the same exercise as pi$$ing on a volcano.
Pretty desperate measure.
Saw video of the drop, not very accurate results.

Edit add: The chopper (chinok) was moving fast. Presumably working on the time, distance of minimizing exposure to radiation.

I am surprised with all of the drones we manage to have for bombing people that we cannot send a robot controlled chopper that can fly in, hover and deliver the water right on target.

 

[Rambler]

I think everyone around the world is simply paranoid. Radiation from the disaster could not have been on someone from that plane to Chicago, unless he or she were there at the nuke site, escaped the precaution zone without getting caught, made it 250 km thru the mud and muck to the airport (remember cars aren't getting thru), didn't take a shower before getting on the plane and wore his muddy mucky clothes for the 12 hour flight. Yeah, right. More likely he had a barium enema right before the flight.

I like Gumby's explanation, and I'm sticking with it. Besides, all the other scientific explanations seem to coincide with his. The explanations in the media don't seem very scientific. Remember, gloom and doom sells...happy, gonna be alright type of talk doesn't. (oh, and besides that, I have to live thru it, so I'd rather be concerned but not so scared that I would have to Depend on something to catch the mess).

R

 

[haha]

Way to go, Rambler. Thanks for checking in. Could you say something about the calm/panic levels among the Japanese down there in Tokyo?

Ha

 

[Ronstar]

Looks like the O'hare radiation was from medical equipment that was stored in the cargo-hold. And at levels that is consistent with normal daily operations.

Radiation From Japan Detected At O’Hare Airport « CBS Chicago

 

[haha]

This morning's NYT delves into the problems getting trustworthy information from Japanese officials, either from government or TEPCO. It seems that so far TEPCO has been the ultimate source of everything, and some American officials do not think this is working very well. (Which I do not doubt at all, as CYA seems to be the universal motto everywhere.)

"Experts met in Tokyo to compare notes. The United States, with Japanese permission, began to put the intelligence-collection aircraft over the site, in hopes of gaining a view for Washington as well as its allies in Tokyo that did not rely on the announcements of officials from Tokyo Electric, which operates Fukushima Daiichi."

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/19/w...l=1&adxnnlx=1300449773-t0iAMayGeEazQB+MDGHfDg

Ha

 

[Rambler]

Way to go, Rambler. Thanks for checking in. Could you say something about the calm/panic levels among the Japanese down there in Tokyo?

Ha

For starters, the officials aren't very forthcoming. No one believes them even in the best of times, why should they now? Kan was hanging on to his premiership by a thread before the disaster, but the country needs a leader now, even a marginal leader. (I think Edano is doing a better job than Kan...but we need a real thorough cleaning in Japanese politics in my opinion, and that is another topic for another day). This is the main reason for the panic...the people don't know "what" to believe about the nuclear crisis.

In terms of panic, I would almost say that it seems to be orderly and polite. Panic yes, but orderly panic. The lines to buy things are long, but everyone is cordial and polite. Sure people are buying more than usual...3 or 4 of an item instead of 2. But you won't see someone load their cart at the supermarket with every last loaf of bread and the go try to hawk it on the corner for 3-5x the price. The people are afraid that the govt won't get it's act together and solve the crisis. They fear more earthquakes (we've had over 600, maybe as many as 800 of them, 3 over magnitude 7, nearly 50 over magnitude 6, and over 300 over magnitude 5). We shake a few times an hour. Anyway, I wonder how someone who lived thru both this and something like Katrina or 9/11 would compare two societies and their reactions. I was here in Japan, so what I was seeing from here in Japan was colored with the lens of the media.

Many in the expat community that have simply fled. For the moms with 5 kids and a baby, the SAHM is better off in the states, as it is difficult for them to understand what is going on and hard for them to shop when they understand nothing and there us so little to buy. But it saddens me that the expat who has been sent here as a highly paid leader turns tail. It is times like this when leaders are most needed. Perhaps they weren't good leaders after all.

It's been a very long week. I'm tired. I told DW today that I just wanted to go somewhere for the weekend that was warm, high, away from the panic, and not shaking like jelly.

R

 

[Dimsumkid]

Looks like the O'hare radiation was from medical equipment that was stored in the cargo-hold. And at levels that is consistent with normal daily operations.

Radiation From Japan Detected At O’Hare Airport « CBS Chicago

This article states people absorbed radiation.

Here's the part I read:
"Most passengers and airline crew members coming to O’Hare from Japan on Thursday said that it appeared the amount of radiation the radiation they’d absorbed was not dangerous."

 

[haha]

It's been a very long week. I'm tired. I told DW today that I just wanted to go somewhere for the weekend that was warm, high, away from the panic, and not shaking like jelly.

R

Thanks Rambler for your observations. About the shaking getting on your nerves- I can sure understand that. I lived in LA during the San Fernando Valley quake of 1971, maybe 20 miles SW of the epicenter. It was a pretty good shake that brought down some freeway overpasses, but of course nothing like what happened during the Miyagi Prefecture quake that you have just gone through. But nevertheless the aftershocks went on and on, and I believe from talking with people that it was more the ongoing nerve-wracking shaking that sent people packing their goods into U-Hauls and heading into other states than the one-off quake itself.

And aftershocks that of 7! - they can do plenty damage too.

Ha

 

[GalaxyBoy]

The best summary I've found of the sequence of events to date is at

http://www.world-nuclear-news.org/RS_Insight_to_Fukushima_engineering_challenges_1803112.html

I apologize in advance if the URL wrapped. I'm on my iPhone.

It's been over 15 years but I used to work in the nuclear business doing fire safety analyses (Appendix R for you other nukes out there) including BWR/4 reactors in Mark I containments. As soon as the news hit that all power was wiped out I basically thought to myself "holy carp!!" My hat is off to the brave operators and responders at the plant. I can't imagine what they are going through.

 

[Ronstar]

This article states people absorbed radiation.

Here's the part I read:
"Most passengers and airline crew members coming to O’Hare from Japan on Thursday said that it appeared the amount of radiation the radiation they’d absorbed was not dangerous."

The article also said this:

"Obama’s homeland security chief said federal officials are monitoring incoming flights from Japan for even trace amounts of radiation and that none was detected on passengers or luggage."

 

[Dimsumkid]

The article also said this:

"Obama’s homeland security chief said federal officials are monitoring incoming flights from Japan for even trace amounts of radiation and that none was detected on passengers or luggage."

Ronstar,
I'm not sure if you noticed this article got updated last night at 10pm. They also included WBBM-780 radiocast at the top of the article.

"As WBBM Newsradio 780′s Mike Krauser reports, travelers coming in from Japan triggered radiation detectors at O’Hare as they passed through customs. Only very small amounts of radiation were detected."

You would think CBS TV and radio would get their stories straight in the same article!

 

[Ronstar]

Ronstar,
I'm not sure if you noticed this article got updated last night at 10pm. They also included WBBM-780 radiocast at the top of the article.

"As WBBM Newsradio 780′s Mike Krauser reports, travelers coming in from Japan triggered radiation detectors at O’Hare as they passed through customs. Only very small amounts of radiation were detected."

You would think CBS TV and radio would get their stories straight in the same article!

Thanks! - I did not know they updated the article. I don't listen to WBBM radio - I just watch Kate Sullivan on local CBS tv.