Plight of older people

[Mr._Graybeard]

There really is a bad side to lazy, my cousin was so lazy he was unemployable as much as he wanted, It's hard to employ someone when they don't want to show up for work, let alone do it.
He had his hand out and considered it smart when he would get gov't benefits for doing nothing, it's free money. ...

When I see the term "free money" used pejoratively on this forum I think of a recent thread where people with the means to retire early were encouraged to get laid off so they could collect unemployment benefits.

 

[travelover]

When I see the term "free money" used pejoratively on this forum I think of a recent thread where people with the means to retire early were encouraged to get laid off so they could collect unemployment benefits.

Or manage taxable income to get "free" ACA health insurance.

 

[timo2]

You make some really good points. I think I am completely on board to help all of the “children, disabled, and the elderly who have problems”, if you can help me do something about all of the others that will come for that gravy train. And they will come... in ever greater numbers.

These 'others' don't generally live in a vacuum. The are parts of families. The advantage these 'others' might take of the charitable aid meant for their families or grandparents is not a gravy train. The funds are meager by the standards of the folks on this site. None of us would want to live on that income.

But to your general point, vagrancy has always been a problem in organized society. IMO the 'greater numbers' are because of the 'robot revolution'. what do you do when there are no low level factory jobs or fast food jobs or office clerk jobs. One bright spot has been that coding jobs don't require advanced education, but eventually basic coding will be automated also.

As a practical matter, I'm not so concerned with the morality of 'slackers' or 'bums' or 'lazy' people that slip through the cracks to take advantage of the charitable aid meant for their families or grandparents. In my experience the families do keep a lid on some of the family members.

That's where the 'universal income' plans floating come in. That would provide families with something. I'm not sure about some of those plans, but they are, IMO, actually about preventing civil unrest from families that can't find decent work because of the robots. I can't run off to New Zealand, but I can support reducing the chances of civil unrest that will negatively affect my life. And keeping people from starving no matter who they are is the right thing to do anyway.

 

[UnrealizedPotential]

While I wouldn't really be against a program to further help the needy or even a basic income plan that has been mentioned, at least on a trial basis, I do wonder where the money will come from to pay for it. We can't even pay for the programs we have now.

 

[NW-Bound]

... preventing civil unrest from families that can't find decent work because of the robots.

...keeping people from starving no matter who they are is the right thing to do anyway.

Food production is so good these days that we have an obesity problem. It is hard to go hungry in this country. Sharing food is an easy thing to do.

The bigger problem I see is how to keep people occupied, so that they do not get bored and turn to drugs. Nowadays, with meth and some synthetic drugs that are 1000x stronger than heroin, it is getting harder and harder to keep people from doing harm to themselves and to bystanders.

Sorry that this is way off-topic from the problem faced by poor elderly people. The latter is relatively easier to help; we spend a lot of money on Medicaid and financial assistance to the elderly. The drug addicts and mentally ills on the street are usually younger, and do not live to the old age we talked about earlier in the post.

 

[Music Lover]

These 'others' don't generally live in a vacuum. The are parts of families. The advantage these 'others' might take of the charitable aid meant for their families or grandparents is not a gravy train. The funds are meager by the standards of the folks on this site. None of us would want to live on that income.

It's not a gravy train...but that doesn't matter to some people. As long as they have a roof over their heads and they can afford to eat and buy the occasional case of beer then they'll never look for work because their basic needs are already being met.

I know 3 adults who live rent free in their parent's basement who are in their 40's and 50's. They have a roof over their heads and get fed and now after 20 or 30 years of not working they're unemployable. But they don't care because when their parents die they'll cash out on the sale of the house....and if they run out of money society will take care of them.

 

[timo2]

Food production is so good these days that we have an obesity problem. It is hard to go hungry in this country. Sharing food is an easy thing to do.

Obesity is not specifically from too much food. The modern environment and low quality food are the issues. Also changes in gut bacteria are turning out to be an issue.

https://www.foxnews.com/story/10-causes-of-obesity-other-than-over-eating-inactivity "It's well accepted that reduced physical activity and fast food are linked to obesity. But the evidence that these are the main causes of obesity is "largely circumstantial," Allison and colleagues say.

Obesity researchers should broaden their horizon, they argue. So the researchers propose 10 other explanations for obesity, which are also supported by circumstantial evidence."

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/02/180223092441.htm Researchers at Lund University in Sweden have discovered a new link between gut bacteria and obesity. They found that certain amino acids in our blood can be connected to both obesity and the composition of the gut microbiome.

 

[Sunset]

It's not a gravy train...but that doesn't matter to some people. As long as they have a roof over their heads and they can afford to eat and buy the occasional case of beer then they'll never look for work because their basic needs are already being met.

I know 3 adults who live rent free in their parent's basement who are in their 40's and 50's. They have a roof over their heads and get fed and now after 20 or 30 years of not working they're unemployable. But they don't care because when their parents die they'll cash out on the sale of the house....and if they run out of money society will take care of them.

Hey, I know a fellow like that, sponging off his father for the past 20 years I have witnessed.
I'm sure his plan is to live off the sale of the house.
He doesn't even help out in the house, just waits for his father to make supper.
This free-loader is now over 60, so I guess he collects SS, as he made sure he worked 10 years to qualify when he was young.

 

[dirtbiker]

No.... I want to live in a society where people have a sense of shame in allowing themselves to become helpless to the point where they must seek help from others. There are many who gleefully run away from any and all responsibilities whatsoever.

I want to live in a society where it is considered a moral duty to be able to take care of yourself, and your family. Because only once you have done those things, are you strong enough to help others that truly need it.

I do not think you will find anyone that does not want to help people that got a bad roll of the dice. That can, and does happen to many people. But at the same time I am very much against the idea of “we must help everyone no matter how selfish, shortsighted, self indulgent, or idle they were to have gotten there”.

There is a reason for that, and it is not to be mean spirited. When you reward a negative behavior, it will only encourage more of that behavior. In some ways of people really truly knew... like with absolute certainty. That if NO ONE was comming to “save” them... then I doubt so many would blissfully walk to the edge of the cliff. If people own nothing else, their lives are still pretty important to them...

I largely agree with your line of thought. The issue is how do we draw the line and how do we distinguish between those who are truly helpless and needy and those who are gaming the system? It's a big issue with no clear solution.

Food production is so good these days that we have an obesity problem. It is hard to go hungry in this country. Sharing food is an easy thing to do.

I believe it was France that passed a law within the last year or two that made it illegal for restaurants and grocery stores to throw away old food that was still good. Rather, they were required to donate it. I would not be opposed to passing similar legislation. Or at least make it easier to donate the old food without risk of litigation for donating food past its expiration date. SOOO much perfectly good food is thrown away in this country while people starve.

 

[NW-Bound]

I believe it was France that passed a law within the last year or two that made it illegal for restaurants and grocery stores to throw away old food that was still good. Rather, they were required to donate it. I would not be opposed to passing similar legislation. Or at least make it easier to donate the old food without risk of litigation for donating food past its expiration date. SOOO much perfectly good food is thrown away in this country while people starve.

The USDA estimated that between 30 to 40% of food grown in the US never reaches the dinning table. The rest of the world is not much better.

It's not just food thrown out by the end consumers, but the above number includes produce never harvested at the farms, wastage by food processors, supermarkets, restaurants, etc...

PS. Food is often not donated for fear of liability if someone gets ill. The truth is that there's a little-known Federal law that protects donors from such lawsuits. Business owners just do not know about it. This is explained in the following video at 11:00.

 

[NW-Bound]

There are many documentaries about food waste.

Here's a typical one, filmed at a Walmart in Canada where perfectly good food is tossed days before expiration.

 

[dirtbiker]

The USDA estimated that between 30 to 40% of food grown in the US never reaches the dinning table. The rest of the world is not much better.

It's not just food thrown out by the end consumers, but the above number includes produce never harvested at the farms, wastage by food processors, supermarkets, restaurants, etc...

PS. Food is often not donated for fear of liability if someone gets ill. The truth is that there's a little-known Federal law that protects donors from such lawsuits. Business owners just do not know about it. This is explained in the following video at 11:00.

There are many documentaries about food waste.

Here's a typical one, filmed at a Walmart in Canada where perfectly good food is tossed days before expiration.

It's quite sad actually. I watched a documentary on food waste in Las Vegas a few years ago, and the amount of perfectly good food thrown out by these massive buffets is just astounding. Often huge plates of food are prepared, cooked, and never even put out onto the buffet, and are then thrown away.

 

[Winemaker]

It's quite sad actually. I watched a documentary on food waste in Las Vegas a few years ago, and the amount of perfectly good food thrown out by these massive buffets is just astounding. Often huge plates of food are prepared, cooked, and never even put out onto the buffet, and are then thrown away.

I believe there was a segment on "Dirty Jobs" where all of the thrown out food and table scraps were all sold to one of the largest hog farms in the US just outside Las Vegas. The food scraps/wasted food were all processed and slopped to the hogs.

 

[armor99]

Hey, I know a fellow like that, sponging off his father for the past 20 years I have witnessed.
I'm sure his plan is to live off the sale of the house.
He doesn't even help out in the house, just waits for his father to make supper.
This free-loader is now over 60, so I guess he collects SS, as he made sure he worked 10 years to qualify when he was young.

Yup... I know a guy like that too... sadly most of us do. He has never left home, not worked a real job for more than 6 months, and in a few years will be 50.

And rather than improve his life, he sits at home, paints board game figures, and lectures people on Facebook about how capitalism is awful, and people should listen to him.... We used to talk on rare ocassion. Until one day he lectured me that I was not a risk taker, and that he was. I told him the first risk any man takes in life is to leave home. And he has not even done that yet... we did not speak after that... He will wake up in his 60’s and wonder what happened to his life....

 

[HFWR]

https://youtu.be/VKoYHFVBpEA

 

[Nemo2]

Here's a typical one, filmed at a Walmart in Canada where perfectly good food is tossed days before expiration.

DW & I just watched the vid......family throws out around 25% and considers themselves 'average'........we toss out, um.....just about nothing...wow.

 

[Mr._Graybeard]

Yup... I know a guy like that too... sadly most of us do. He has never left home, not worked a real job for more than 6 months, and in a few years will be 50.

And rather than improve his life, he sits at home, paints board game figures, and lectures people on Facebook about how capitalism is awful, and people should listen to him.... We used to talk on rare ocassion. Until one day he lectured me that I was not a risk taker, and that he was. I told him the first risk any man takes in life is to leave home. And he has not even done that yet... we did not speak after that... He will wake up in his 60’s and wonder what happened to his life....

Yep, my acquaintance didn't make it to 60. The cocoon he never came out of became more like a prison cell as he grew older. His was not a happy life.

 

[aja8888]

I see laziness in spades daily:

1. Stepson @ 54 years old is a recovering alcoholic/drug addict and lives with his father and stepmother in San Antonio. He tries to leach of us whenever he's up this way.

He had a retail job but got off injured and is on worker's comp with no intention to go back. My guess is that he has worked a total of 4 years since high school. He is "once again" trying to work the "injury" into SSDI. He's clearly a bum in my eyes, but to DW, he's her son so you can figure out how well that works out.

2. Stepdaughter @ 52 years old is a druggie and divorced but living with her EX. Try to figure that one out? But at least she is not living with us (again).

She, too, is trying to get SSDI for a host of internal issues obviously related to too much pill popping and other mind altering goodies for 30+ years. She has no desire to work, but she easily could. She may have 10 years work experience so SS is a possibility in 10 years, if she lives that long.

The U.S. is full of these people and you can find a lot of them on the sewer they call Facebook.

 

[Letj]

Yup... I know a guy like that too... sadly most of us do. He has never left home, not worked a real job for more than 6 months, and in a few years will be 50.

And rather than improve his life, he sits at home, paints board game figures, and lectures people on Facebook about how capitalism is awful, and people should listen to him.... We used to talk on rare ocassion. Until one day he lectured me that I was not a risk taker, and that he was. I told him the first risk any man takes in life is to leave home. And he has not even done that yet... we did not speak after that... He will wake up in his 60’s and wonder what happened to his life....

It’s so easy to judge others when we don’t know what’s really going on with them. Have you considered that he may have Aspergers? I know people/have family members who are on the autism spectrum (high functioning) who have such extreme anxiety, depression, OCD, bipolar and in some cases chronic conditions like Crohn’s disease. These are all comorbidities associated with autism. Every autistic person is different. However, these conditions affect them at an exponentially higher rate.

Most people, as the person you described, have so many issues that make normal life functioning a huge challenge. Unless we’ve walked in their shoes, we don’t know that it’s just laziness.

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

Yup, I enjoy being lazy. That's why I retired -

+1.


Lazy, defined: unwilling to work or use energy.

Yep, I fit that pretty well. I wonder if I will be on Live PD this weekend?

In my time in the Army, carrying a clipboard with a bunch of papers and occasionally making notes avoided a lot of "detail" work.

I actually did this for a bit. I carried around a folder with "Penske" written on it. If you aren't familar with the "Penske file", you can review by looking up "George Costanza Penske File".

 

[Amethyst]

Were they like this when you married their mother? I mean, did you know? when you signed up to be their stepdad?

I

1. Stepson @ 54 years old is a recovering alcoholic/drug addict and lives with his father and stepmother in San Antonio. He tries to leach of us whenever he's up this way.

He's clearly a bum in my eyes, but to DW, he's her son so you can figure out how well that works out.

2. Stepdaughter @ 52 years old is a druggie and divorced but living with her EX. .

 

[ls99]

Guess I could be Quasi lazy, since Idecided to go into energy saving mode.

Yes! I like to save energy...... mine.

 

[aja8888]

Were they like this when you married their mother? I mean, did you know? when you signed up to be their stepdad?

Actually, no, they were both young and married, each with a child. Both went downhill in the mid 1990's. They just started making worse and worse decisions. Both are divorced and have been for 6 or 7 years. Sad.

The grandkids turned out ok and finished college with careers started.

 

[HFWR]

In my old hometown, a perennial “worst of” kind o place, many in our age cohort are raising grandkids, because their own children are addicted to, or dead from, opiates and meth.

 

[aja8888]

In my old hometown, a perennial “worst of” kind o place, many in our age cohort are raising grandkids, because their own children are addicted to, or dead from, opiates and meth.

We housed and raised one granddaughter from her age 15 to her college entry (18). We know the drill. She turned out just fine and has a great job and good group of friends.