Saving money on electricity

[cute fuzzy bunny]

We had one of those, and I liked it but my wife hated it. Her reason was that she couldnt tell how much coffee was left in it. I'm not sure what the problem with that was as we never finish the pot, but I've learned its best to not probe on such matters...

I figure with the knowledge that its 9c to brew and heat (and I may take the time to separate out how much of that is brew and how much is heat), i'm happy that she's happy...

 

[LOL!]

Bummer on the LCD TV ... don't tell my wife.

 

[HFWR]

Case closed!!

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Nords...those ultrasonic thingies dont work. At least not the one I tried at my wifes old house where the back shed was a virtual resort for rats and mice. Didnt bother them in the least. Unfortunately I dont think it'd take more than a watt or two to run one.

On the microwave...thousand watts for a minute = some level of electric cost i'm not going to calculate right now until my 2nd cup of coffee...

You might consider one of those fancy light switches that detects motion and turns the lights off if it doesnt see any in the room for 15 minutes or so. Or just go the fluorescent route and stop worrying about it. I'm using some of the x10 control stuff to help out a little, I have it turning our xmas tree on and off for times when we're going to be in the living room, turning the house xmas lights on and off automatically, and in the summer it shuts off the whole house fan in the middle of the night when its pretty much done with its cooling job. I have a buttload of the replacement light switch 'modules' and i'm thinking of putting them in a few key spots with an automatic periodic shutoff. I'm forever leaving the garage light and the back patio lights on all night.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Bummer on the LCD TV ... don't tell my wife.

Your secret is safe with me for a small monthly fee.

Actually you're sort of hosed with most of the new televisions as the lamp or backlight on them is usually in the 100watt range, plus 20-50+ to power the dlp/lcos silicon or lcd panel, plus the rest of the supporting electronics. God help the plasma owners, they eat a lot of power and blow off a lot of heat.

I think the one I used to own was rated at about 500W. If the wall air conditioner in my old house in the same room with the plasma cycled its compressor at the same time that I turned on the tv the circuit breaker blew. You could stand a few feet away and feel the radiant heat coming off of it. It made the room nice and toasty in the winter time, but I needed the window AC units extra boost to keep the room cool enough in the summer time.

The old CRT people have been at the process of reducing the power consumption for a long time.

 

[Nords]

Nords...those ultrasonic thingies dont work.  At least not the one I tried at my wifes old house where the back shed was a virtual resort for rats and mice.  Didnt bother them in the least.  Unfortunately I dont think it'd take more than a watt or two to run one.

See, I've already tried the logical engineering approach. Maybe I can win out on cost/benefit. Or maybe at least I'll learn that it doesn't use much power and I'll be able to stop tossing & turning at night.

You might consider one of those fancy light switches that detects motion and turns the lights off if it doesnt see any in the room for 15 minutes or so. Or just go the fluorescent route and stop worrying about it. I'm using some of the x10 control stuff to help out a little

We have the fluorescents too but dammit it's the principle of the thing! We're still trying to get the Mk1 Mod 0 teenager to learn to turn off the lights, and I doubt that there are enough X10 modules in the world to keep up with that demand. But at least she still jumps when we holler, so it's good exercise too...

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

OK here ya go. Use one of those switches that requires inserting a card to turn it on, then attach the card to 10' of wire and wrap it around her leg. She leaves the room, pop, light goes off.

What could go wrong?!?

 

[Nords]

OK here ya go.  Use one of those switches that requires inserting a card to turn it on, then attach the card to 10' of wire and wrap it around her leg.  She leaves the room, pop, light goes off.

What could go wrong?!?

I love it. I bet that'd work great with the TV, the computer, the fridge, and every door in the house too!

 

[Lancelot]

On the microwave...thousand watts for a minute = some level of electric cost i'm not going to calculate right now until my 2nd cup of coffee...

Sounds like you are managing your electric "load" very well. In general, the stuff thats online 24/7 (electric water heater, fridge/freezer, chargers, transformers) will drive your usage. If you have an electric water heater, consider extra insulation and a timer.

About "thousand watts for a minute" did you mean 1,000 watts for one hour? If something consumes, say 1,000 watts, then using that device for one hour would cost 1,000 watts or 1 kWh (kilo watt hour.) Using it for less than hour would be the appropriate fraction of a kWh.

Might check with your electric company and ask if they offer any promotional rates (off peak demand usage) or rebates for insulation, etc.

MERRY CHRISTMAS!

Lance

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Both our fridges (yes...both of them...I had bought one and it was a piece of crap the manufacturer [who will remain nameless because it was General Electric] refused to replace after being unable to repair under warranty...so I bought another while I was raining hell and damnation on them via every consumer and news agency on earth...a few months later they sent me a nice new one) look to be using about four to five bucks a month in electricity. The electricity usage jumps threefold when you open the door and the light goes on though.

Gas water heater. About 8-10 bucks a month. Sitting in our warmer-than-outdoors garage.

The microwave uses 1000 watts...so warming my coffee for a minute uses 1000 watts for a minute, or if my math is correct, 1/60th of a kwh, or .16kw, which at 20c a kwh runs to about 3c. Did I do that math right? Only 1.25 cups of coffee so far and up since 5am with gabes.

 

[Nords]

The electricity usage jumps threefold when you open the door and the light goes on though.

The engineer in me wants to know why refrigerators have lights. Any appliance experts out there?

Somehow we all manage to navigate our freezers without interior illumination. Yet the fridge requires a blazing incandescent bulb so that we can see every splash, drip, & mold colony.

At a minimum that 100W bulb should be replaced with a 40W appliance bulb or even a CF. And maybe we'll be disconnecting ours!

The microwave uses 1000 watts...so warming my coffee for a minute uses 1000 watts for a minute, or if my math is correct, 1/60th of a kwh, or .16kw, which at 20c a kwh runs to about 3c. Did I do that math right? Only 1.25 cups of coffee so far and up since 5am with gabes.

Merry Christmas, Dad! The upside is that naptime will be earlier today, right?

(1000 watts)(1 minute) x (1 hr/60 min) x (1 KW/1000 watts) x (20 cents/KWhr) = 0.3 cents.

20 cents/KWHr? I thought Oahu was expensive at 17 cents. Or is this a "deregulation" benefit?

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Yep you're right I screwed it up. I was looking at some 'sample bills' on the pg&e web site and they were using larger (wishful thinking?) numbers. After clicking 1000 steps and having to agree to accept e-bills before being able to see my own bill on-line, then having to get a page with 50 characters on it delivered as a 2mb PDF file, I see that i'm being charged 11c for baseline use, 13c for 100-130% use, and 18c for 131-200% usage. About 40% of my bill is 131-200%. 200% of what? What baseline?? Argggh!

My new GE refrigerator has fiber optic lights! Actually kinda cool. Instead of one or two bulbs blazing, theres a plastic conduit that branches out in the top of the fridge and it pumps light through those.

Speaking of naptime, according to the baby monitor...that just ended...and I have to go use a lot of electricity to make a buttload of manfood as all our wimmen are working at the hospital today.

 

[Brat]

Will those of you who have a "Kill-a-Watt" please share with me the mfg? I have relatives who own a marina. When told them about the device they said electrical consumption is a big deal on a boat. They would like to consider stocking it for their customers.

 

[Nords]

Will those of you who have a "Kill-a-Watt" please share with me the mfg?

Amazon is selling a $30 version by P3 International but the shipping was $25.  That may be Hawaii's "Paradise Tax" or a retailer may be able to get a better deal.

I bought mine yesterday from eBay's "thermalkool" in Florida for $29.64.  I can't get the link to come up (http://cm.ebay.com/cm/ck/1065-29392...ite=0&ver=EOIBSA080805&lk=URL&Item=7574320024) but the item number is 7574320024.

EDIT: Ah, here's the link.

 

[Lancelot]

usage.  About 40% of my bill is 131-200%.  200% of what?  What baseline??  Argggh!

I checked out PG&E's online residential bills. Man, what convoluted bunch of info.

OK, I'll give the "base line" lingo a try: Remember the past electricity shortages in California? I think the base line is a type of energy conservation rate imposed on customers by PG&E. In other words, they give you a daily/monthly ration of kWh hours at the lowest rate; then, if your usage exceeds the "base line" you advance to the next rate tier and pay more for additional kWhs. Kinda like progressive US Income tax rates, the first buck is taxed at a lower rate...

It is a hassle, but you will pay the least if you can squeeze in to the lower base rates.

Anyway, here is the link to explain baselines. http://www.pge.com/news/news_releases/q2_2004/040430.html

Electric deregulation sure added another layer of complexity to the aberage Joe's utility bill

Lance

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Amazon is selling a $30 version by P3 International but the shipping was $25. That may be Hawaii's "Paradise Tax" or a retailer may be able to get a better deal.

I bought mine yesterday from eBay's "thermalkool" in Florida for $29.64. I can't get the link to come up (http://cm.ebay.com/cm/ck/1065-29392...ite=0&ver=EOIBSA080805&lk=URL&Item=7574320024) but the item number is 7574320024.

EDIT: Ah, here's the link.

If you find the amazon item "P3 International Kill-a-Watt Electricity Usage Monitor, Ivory" its $33 from amazon with free shipping, thats what I got.

If you cant find that one at a local place, look for Lacrosse Technologies Power Controller...I got one of those first but it didnt work properly and amazon was "out" of them.

Theres also the "watts up" and watts up pro, the pro model can measure surges and whatnot and upload all its data to a pc. For over a hundred bucks though...
http://www.dom.com/products/wattsup/wattsup_pro.jsp

I had found out about this by reading someones blog about it, and they mentioned a 220v product that was by my recollection a good bit more expensive than the kill-a-watt, but of course I cant find the article now nor does a simple search turn up such a product.

On the other hand, I know exactly what my AC, dryer and range use for power. A shitload.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Another data point. Our little oil filled electric radiator we have in the nursery cost 2.75Kwh to run for ~12 hours last night. Its about a 9x9ish room, high ceilings, house temp about 65, outside temp in the low 50's, keeping the room warmed to about 74 degrees.

So this costs about ten bucks a month to warm his room exclusive of the house. Presuming our worst case 130%-200% of baseline rate and a colder night, it might double to about twenty bucks a month.

Our alternative of not setting back the thermostat at night and not using the heater would most likely cost us quite a bit more on the gas bill, and it still wouldnt be as warm in his room as we keep it with the heater.

 

[TromboneAl]

We were below baseline for the first time in November. Of course, we were gone for a week, so that helped.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Ugh...half my bill is 130-200%. Even in months when we didnt heat or cool, it was well over 100 bucks. Hence my interest in the kill-a-watt.

 

[Lancelot]

Ugh...half my bill is 130-200%.  Even in months when we didnt heat or cool, it was well over 100 bucks.  Hence my interest in the kill-a-watt.

Yes, it looks like the rates really advance after the second baseline rate tier. That watt killer investment could have a terrific rate of return

Warmer today - a balmy 81F with a light breeze @ 10 am...

Lance

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

So i'm running an experiment...perhaps someone can give me support or find the flaw in it.

I have the kill-a-watt on my furnace; this is only measuring the electricity used. Its 533 watts when the blower fan is running. A lot more than I thought.

I'm leaving it on for 24 hours at my current setup of 69 during the day and 62 at night. I'll measure Kwh used after the 24 hours. Then change the thermo to stay at 69 for the next 24, measure the Kwh, then put it to 72 with no set back and measure for 24 hours.

The weathers supposed to stay ~ the same for the next 3 days temp wise. So while i'm not measuring gas use or total heating cost, I will be measuring how much electric draw and I think therefore how long the furnace runs, and get a relative cost factor between the three days.

I hope to learn how much the set-back saves me, and how much keeping it a few degrees cooler than Mrs. () would like saves me (excepting the other cost factors involved in that... )

Any holes in this approach?

 

[Lancelot]

Will you "normalize" for weather? If the outside temps vary significantly, u might want to adjust (factor) for weather...

I've always been a big fan out set back thermo stats, but I never attempted to actually measure the savings.

Good experiment, keep us posted...

 

[SteveR]

Will you "normalize" for weather? If the outside temps vary significantly, u might want to adjust (factor) for weather...

I've always been a big fan out set back thermo stats, but I never attempted to actually measure the savings.

Good experiment, keep us posted...

I too have been interested if there are any real savings in using a set back thermostat. We both work all day and we keep the house cool at night so we use it a lot. I just wonder if the heat up time to go from 62 to 68 when we get up in the morning and in the evenings is costing more than if we just left it at 65 at night and learned to deal with the cold floors at 5 am?

 

[sailor]

I too have been interested if there are any real savings in using a set back thermostat. We both work all day and we keep the house cool at night so we use it a lot. I just wonder if the heat up time to go from 62 to 68 when we get up in the morning and in the evenings is costing more than if we just left it at 65 at night and learned to deal with the cold floors at 5 am?

I installed two programmable thermostats in 2001 (they were expensive suckers - $69 each, since I have two stage heat pumps).
My year around electricity usage (all electric house) was lowered about 15% overall (annual savings of about $230)
Now unfortunately the usage is slightly more - since my wife & little sailor stays at home during the days.
(I tried to normalize savings using some complicated HDD & CDD weather calculations, which showed about 17% savings).
Of course YMMV, since you live in a different climat and a different house.
Also if you have a two stage heat pump (with electric resistive heating strips), if your thermostat is not "smart enough" you might end up paying more for heating.
For us the ticket for cold mornings was a heated tile floor in the bathroom. (We installed the tiles and electric heating mat ourselves)

 

[TromboneAl]

Our bathroom is the coldest room in the house (furthest from the wood stove), but we only use it briefly in the morning, and for showers. So, we suffer through the cold in the morning, and turn two space heaters on for about 20 minutes before taking a shower (1 KWH).