Should I be putting my car's keyless fob in a Faraday cage?

[Koolau]

Maybe I am just overly concerned.

That would be my guess, unless you live in a bad neighborhood and drive a Bentley.

My solution is to drive a 12 year old bottom-of-the-line model. Who's gonna steal it? YMMV

 

[brett]

It is not the neighborhood, it is the vehicle and whether or not it is garaged at night, parked on the street or in your driveway.

The people who are doing this for a business have a shopping list of 'desired' late model vehicles. Cars, SUV, pickups.

If they see one on their list in their travels they follow it back to where it is parked at night. On the street, in the driveway means they are back at 2AM to try their luck.

It is steal to order. These are not 'chop shop' or joy rider types. This is a large, organized cars for export business.

Out of your driveway, into a sea container, plates off, and when the container is full off it goes to port and on its way to Africa or the Middle East.

These stolen vehicles are not driven far. They may be in the container before you even wake up in the morning and report the vehicle stolen. Or sitting in an out of sight lot waiting to be loaded into a sea container.

 

[rpguy4]

I follow this guy on YT. He is located in Ontario Canada and drives a Jeep Gladiator Mojave which I guess is a popular vehicle to steal.

He had it parked in his driveway one night and his garage camera's caught a couple of thieves trying to steal his Jeep. Fortunately he had his keys in a Faraday cage in the house.

https://youtu.be/IOjkyEfg7HY

 

[Sunset]

It is not the neighborhood, it is the vehicle and whether or not it is garaged at night, parked on the street or in your driveway.

The people who are doing this for a business have a shopping list of 'desired' late model vehicles. Cars, SUV, pickups.

If they see one on their list in their travels they follow it back to where it is parked at night. On the street, in the driveway means they are back at 2AM to try their luck.

It is steal to order. These are not 'chop shop' or joy rider types. This is a large, organized cars for export business.

Out of your driveway, into a sea container, plates off, and when the container is full off it goes to port and on its way to Africa or the Middle East.

These stolen vehicles are not driven far. They may be in the container before you even wake up in the morning and report the vehicle stolen. Or sitting in an out of sight lot waiting to be loaded into a sea container.

Yep.
They read the VIN number to see if it's the correct model, or to make a new key.
I put a business card down my dash to cover the VIN.

 

[Zathras]

My car has a 'PIN to drive' option. I would use it if parked outside overnight.
Of course, that can be cracked as well, but it raises the difficulty level for those looking for a quick/easy take.

 

[Koolau]

^^^^^

It really sounds as if the car manufacturers have some catching up to do on security - built-in security. It' shouldn't fall to consumers to 'know' that they need a Faraday container for their key. The mfg. should supply one or, figure out better security to begin with.

 

[ERD50]

^^^^^

It really sounds as if the car manufacturers have some catching up to do on security - built-in security. It' shouldn't fall to consumers to 'know' that they need a Faraday container for their key. The mfg. should supply one or, figure out better security to begin with.

Agreed. My 2017 model has the keyless fob, and I wondered about the security issues, but I figured that the mfg had that covered (rolling codes. etc). And when I heard about these attacks, and putting your key in a Faraday cage, I thought it was click-bait. But it's real.

Yep, the mfg need to make this more secure. My car is garage kept, but if it wasn't, and I had a more desirable model, I'd be thinking about disabling that feature.

-ERD50

 

[kingkarmann]

Yes, Faraday Cage is a great idea.
Also a tin foil hat.

 

[NXR7]

That Snopes article is from 2008. The attack is far more plausible and widely available nowadays.

The key fob does not continuously transmit. It sits there waiting to receive a "poll" from the car and then it replies. So it's the car that is always transmitting. Otherwise the fob battery would die far sooner.

The theft device picks up the polling signal from the car, amplifies it to increase its range, and listens for a reply from the fob. It then relays the fob reply to the car. Some vehicle manufacturers can detect this attack due to the minuscule delays between the car transmitting and the fob reply coming back via the device and ignore it.

You don't need a "Faraday cage" as others noted. Just keep your keys in the microwave overnight. It's the most RF-proof thing in your home. Of course, you may need to convince your family you're not in the beginning stages of dementia.

The VIN thing is real and apparently more prevalent in Canada than in the US. Dodge Ram trucks have been hit particularly hard. I have not heard of other brands yet. Apparently the algorithm to turn the VIN into a fob has been broken. See: https://www.therecord.com/local-cal...ect-your-property.html?itm_source=parsely-api

A Canadian friend with a Dodge Ram also uses the business card trick to cover up the VIN that is visible through the windshield.

This also is something I do not worry about but I have a garage and the car in the driveway is so old it uses a key. And it's not a Hyundai or Kia.

 

[Doribe]

My plan is to keep my vehicles in the locked garage and to give them up if a robbery crew has guns.

 

[Gearhead Jim]

Is your vehicle in the list in the top 10 stolen in your city or area? High end SUVs, Honda CRV's, Lexus, etc, high end pickups
...
.

All of the lists of "cars most stolen" I've seen are not adjusted for the number of cars out there from each maker.

If 50% of the cars on the road are Toyotas, then I'd expect about half of the cars stolen to be Toyotas. Even if lots of Toyotas are being stolen, if it's less than the percentage on the road then it's good news for Toyota owners.

There are differences, but the average news reporter seems too ignorant of statistics to understand the differences.

 

[meleana]

It looks like intercepting the signal is feasible for thieves. They can then program a new fob and be on their way.

Having the vehicle unlock when I walk up is nice but of course this requires the fob to always be transmitting.

Maybe I am just overly concerned.

https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/keyless-vehicle-owners-twice-likely-26950401

My neighbor just came back from a trip to Montreal. She had driven her new RAV4 up there.

The car was stolen at the hotel due to the keyless fob. She had to get a rental car to get back home.

 

[Sunset]

My neighbor just came back from a trip to Montreal. She had driven her new RAV4 up there.

The car was stolen at the hotel due to the keyless fob. She had to get a rental car to get back home.

Ouch...

Unfortunately the port of Montreal is a prime spot for shipping stolen cars overseas.

Even fairly local folks get them stolen, Hotels are a favorite spot for car shopping due to nice cars and lots of choice that changes every day.

Last year, I was in farmland outside Toronto at a hotel, and really appreciated the clerk telling me to pull up and park near the front doors. There were incidents of thieves stealing cars from the hotels and maybe it would be safer if in sight.

I could see how hotels don't want to say it, as it could turn off future guests, better business to let some get robbed, unless it hits the news.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/hotel-car-theft-laval-1.6856557

 

[Gumby]

You can get a car boot device for about $100. Maybe keep it in your trunk and boot it if you are in a hotel or airport parking lot.

 

[RetMD21]

...The key fob does not continuously transmit. It sits there waiting to receive a "poll" from the car and then it replies. So it's the car that is always transmitting. Otherwise the fob battery would die far sooner.

The theft device picks up the polling signal from the car, amplifies it to increase its range, and listens for a reply from the fob. It then relays the fob reply to the car. Some vehicle manufacturers can detect this attack due to the minuscule delays between the car transmitting and the fob reply coming back via the device and ignore it....

That makes sense. Living just north of the Ontario border I may be hearing more of these stories than many.

 

[ERD50]

I saw a local news report, thought it was related to this key fob issue, but it's a different thing, and affects Kias and Hyundais. They were bashing in windows, so different from the fob issue, but worth noting if you own these cars:

https://patch.com/illinois/palos/thieves-target-hyundais-kia-community-parking-lots-reports

The rise in Hyundai and Kia vehicle thefts or attempted thefts was inspired by a TikTok video showing how to start these cars without a key.

 

[Koolau]

I'm still counting on thieves preferring much more desirable cars than mine. I don't think either of my car fobs "communicate" with the car as neither is a keyless entry.

 

[Gumby]

I'm still counting on thieves preferring much more desirable cars than mine. I don't think either of my car fobs "communicate" with the car as neither is a keyless entry.

That's my philosophy. When the lion is chasing you, you don't need to outrun the lion, just the guy next to you.

 

[Koolau]

That's my philosophy. When the lion is chasing you, you don't need to outrun the lion, just the guy next to you.

Heh, heh, lace up those running shoes good and tight!

 

[Sunset]

There is another way they can steal a car, but it takes a lot of time and skill plus a special device.
It involves pulling off some of the front fender, or wheel well cover, to gain access to the car bus (bus is the wiring pathways of computers). They can plug into a special plug along the front light system, and then since new cars are basically computer networks on wheels, can get to the control unit to do key/fob re-programming.

It's not something we all have to worry about due to the difficulty, unless of course you see your bumper/fender/wheel well yanked off one morning..

 

[brett]

IF you are truly concerned about this, and you own a vehicle which you are aware is an attractive high value vehicle target for thieves in your area why not get a faraday box

Really, getting the box and dropping your keys in it each night seems to me to be much easier than possibly filling our the the stolen vehicle claim, dealing with your insurance company, and all the time wasting hassles and inconvenience that you may experience.

It is a no brainer to me. Why sweat this one out when there is a very obvious and a very inexpensive solution to allay your fears.

 

[brett]

duplicate

 

[6miths]

I worry about a lot of things but this is way, way down on my list. Interesting concern though!

+1

It is good to live in a different place. Or be blissfully ignorant. I can only recall one personal acquaintance whose car was ever stolen. I think it was 1981 and it was a late model Trans Am. I can't even recall someone saying, 'Oh I heard so and so's car was stolen'. I refuse to pay car dealers for ID engraving or lock nuts and in fact ask that the latter be removed. And also at some level think that 'chipped' keys and key fobs are just another big corporate money maker.

 

[audreyh1]

Scratching my head a bit as it would seem like out in a public parking lot would be where the thieves would intercept a signal?

Our vehicle doesn’t constantly send signals to the fob or vice versa. We almost never unlock remotely either and don’t use the fob.

 

[Koolau]

Scratching my head a bit as it would seem like out in a public parking lot would be where the thieves would intercept a signal?

Our vehicle doesn’t constantly send signals to the fob or vice versa. We almost never unlock remotely either and don’t use the fob.

Do you use the key? I figured I had arrived when I got my first car that didn't require a key. I played with the fob for half an hour. (That was my 2000 Buick that I bought in 2012.) Full disclosure, the car will still open with a key. I just can't imagine not using the fob but YMMV.