The Electric Vehicle Thread

[Koolau]

Last car I bought was a '12 in '17. Cost me $13K out the door w/current inspection AND tags. It's my "main" car and I've put 12K miles on it in 4 years. SO, I could never justify $50K for any car. An electric - even if our rates weren't $.30/kwh would never make up for the fuel I use - even if fuel goes to $5/gal (as it did back in the last go-round.)

I'd say, at my age, I'll likely never replace the car - DW's car really DOES need replaced, but, another story. So, much as I love cars, I see sort of a two tiered market. 1) Those like me that need a car for convenience (store, docs, church, restaurant, friends'-house) runs or 2) Folks depending on a car for numerous relatively long trips (w*rk, rural home to big city, vacations, over the river and through the woods, etc.)

Those in category 1 can justify a new car only for the new safety, comfort and convenience features. Adding electric to the mix would almost be for the gee-whiz factor since plenty of ICE cars will give you all the features you want.

I always add that I'm fascinated by electric cars (and hybrids.) I'd love to drive a Tesla - but my son never offered his to me when we visited. So I'll continue to live vicariously thorough these pages, knowing I'll likely never own another new car - heh, heh, unless maybe a C8 YMMV

 

[Urchina]

Tall people EV selection update:

We've narrowed the EV candidate field down to about 7 or 8 vehicles, based on reviews and specs found online (thanks again for the tip, Explanade).

This weekend I took the taller of the two minions with me to test-drive some vehicles. We drove the Ford Mach-E, the Tesla Y and the Tesla 3. We were also able to sit in a Chevy Bolt and will test-drive it next weekend, along with a few other models.

While we fit comfortably in all four cars we were in, we were able to eliminate the Tesla Y based on its absolutely miserable driving experience. Both of us got carsick from being bounced around so much (when you're driving and the front passenger and get carsick on wide, straight roads in light traffic you know something's up). We were fortunate to take the test drive on the same path for all the vehicles we drove, so difference in road conditions were controlled.

We were very pleasantly surprised at the roomy cabin of the Bolt, and are looking forward to test-driving it next weekend.

We both loved the Ford Mach-E -- very comfortable, very responsive, and very intuitive, with a heads-up display. I could easily see doing long road trips in that car.

The Minion did not appreciate the Tesla's lack of heads-up display and felt that it wasn't safe for me to have to take my attention off the road to manage basic issues like knowing what speed I was traveling at or the remaining battery charge. The Minion is thinking about getting a driver's license and I was very pleased to hear the safety focus.

All cars were relatively easy to parallel park -- backup cameras are amazing.

So -- yes on all four for tall people.
No on the Y as it felt like a bad carnival ride.
Very high marks so far for the Ford.
We are eagerly anticipating this weekend's test drives (Bolt, VW, Kia)
Very excited also to hear that Kia is bringing the Soul EV back this year. That will definitely be on our list.

More updates to come later....

 

[explanade]

More new models should be available in the second half of this year too, including a newer version of the Bolt. I don't think they're changing the drive train or motor or making it a lot bigger but it may lower the price of the current models.

Also there's talk of new tax credits or even rebates, including for manufacturers such as Tesla which has used up its quota of tax credits. But that legislation may not pass until later this year.

https://www.consumerreports.org/hybrids-evs/hot-new-electric-cars-are-coming-soon/

 

[Urchina]

Aaaah, Nissan answered my wish for an electric Rogue (ish) vehicle! And the Kia SUV looks very interesting.

We may need to delay this purchase to let some of these new options enter the field....

 

[RonBoyd]

For the market share of plug-in electric vehicles (PEVs) to continue to grow and reach 100% of new vehicle sales, adopters of the technology, who initially buy PEVs, will need to continue choosing them in subsequent purchases. Although much research has focused on the reasons for, and barriers to, initial PEV purchase, less has been devoted to the reasons for discontinuance—abandoning a new technology after first purchasing it. Here, on the basis of results from five questionnaire surveys, we find that PEV discontinuance in California occurs at a rate of 20% for plug-in hybrid electric vehicle owners and 18% for battery electric vehicle owners. We show that discontinuance is related to dissatisfaction with the convenience of charging, having other vehicles in the household that are less efficient, not having level 2 (240-volt) charging at home, having fewer household vehicles and not being male.

https://academictimes.com/1-in-5-el...-later-switches-back-to-gas-california-study/

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41560-021-00814-9

 

[audreyh1]

No on the Y as it felt like a bad carnival ride.

Wow, we test drove a Model Y and had a delightful driving experience. It was very smooth, super responsive, awesome acceleration. I already knew how the regenerative braking on “hold” mode worked and got used to one pedal driving right away by driving around the parking lot before taking to the highway access roads.

Definitely didn’t experience any carnival ride nor motion sickness.

 

[Midpack]

Wow, we test drove a Model Y and had a delightful driving experience. It was very smooth, super responsive, awesome acceleration. I already knew how the regenerative braking on “hold” mode worked and got used to one pedal driving right away by driving around the parking lot before taking to the highway access roads.

Definitely didn’t experience any carnival ride nor motion sickness.

I'm afraid to do a test drive, I'm so close to buying one that it might push me over the edge. I can resist for now, but if they restart the Fed tax credit out to 600,000 vehicles per manufacturer (Green Act or other), I'd probably order a Model Y...

 

[audreyh1]

Tesla lead times are quite long now. That might hold you back for a while, lol!

Ultimately, resistance is futile?

There are definitely driving modes that are quite different from a traditional ICE.

 

[NW-Bound]

^^^ Sounds like you placed an order for one.

 

[audreyh1]

As it happens, we have a Model X on order. Unfortunately it looks like it could be a very long wait due to the design refresh......

Models 3 and Y lead times aren’t nearly as long, but still 7-11 weeks.

 

[Midpack]

Yes, as it happens, we have a Model X on order. Unfortunately it looks like it could be a very long wait de to the design refresh......

Models 3 and Y lead times aren’t nearly as long, but still 7-11 weeks.

You probably know they’re still retooling S and X production, hence longer lead times.

 

[audreyh1]

Yes, we realized that, and would prefer the refresh model anyway.

Our Jeep is 16 years old! Have to limp along a while longer..... It runs fine, but recently we’ve been renting cars for long road trips.

Unfortunately our old Jeep Liberty is no longer very comfortable for long road trips, and has probably kept us from a lot more travel over the past few years, but things kept getting in the way of replacing it. We originally got it for something that tows easily behind a motorhome, and it was great for that and for the off road driving we were often doing for photography.

 

[Koolau]

Tall people EV selection update:

We've narrowed the EV candidate field down to about 7 or 8 vehicles, based on reviews and specs found online (thanks again for the tip, Explanade).

This weekend I took the taller of the two minions with me to test-drive some vehicles. We drove the Ford Mach-E, the Tesla Y and the Tesla 3. We were also able to sit in a Chevy Bolt and will test-drive it next weekend, along with a few other models.

While we fit comfortably in all four cars we were in, we were able to eliminate the Tesla Y based on its absolutely miserable driving experience. Both of us got carsick from being bounced around so much (when you're driving and the front passenger and get carsick on wide, straight roads in light traffic you know something's up). We were fortunate to take the test drive on the same path for all the vehicles we drove, so difference in road conditions were controlled.

We were very pleasantly surprised at the roomy cabin of the Bolt, and are looking forward to test-driving it next weekend.

We both loved the Ford Mach-E -- very comfortable, very responsive, and very intuitive, with a heads-up display. I could easily see doing long road trips in that car.

The Minion did not appreciate the Tesla's lack of heads-up display and felt that it wasn't safe for me to have to take my attention off the road to manage basic issues like knowing what speed I was traveling at or the remaining battery charge. The Minion is thinking about getting a driver's license and I was very pleased to hear the safety focus.

All cars were relatively easy to parallel park -- backup cameras are amazing.

So -- yes on all four for tall people.
No on the Y as it felt like a bad carnival ride.
Very high marks so far for the Ford.
We are eagerly anticipating this weekend's test drives (Bolt, VW, Kia)
Very excited also to hear that Kia is bringing the Soul EV back this year. That will definitely be on our list.

More updates to come later....

Thanks for sharing your research. My only experience is in my son's T Model 3. My only issue was folding myself in (and then out) of the door. I'm avg. height but I swear the door is made only for kids (though son is well over 6'.) Maybe it's just my age showing. I'm sure that doesn't bode well for my buying a C8. Too bad and YMMV.

 

[explanade]

I always add that I'm fascinated by electric cars (and hybrids.) I'd love to drive a Tesla - but my son never offered his to me when we visited. So I'll continue to live vicariously thorough these pages, knowing I'll likely never own another new car - heh, heh, unless maybe a C8 YMMV

Maybe you should take some of the money from his inheritance and buy yourself a Tesla.

 

[Koolau]

Maybe you should take some of the money from his inheritance and buy yourself a Tesla.

I like the way you think!

"Sorry, son, but I really NEEDED this C8. But, cheer up. I'm leaving it to you - if I haven't worn it out."

 

[audreyh1]

You probably know they’re still retooling S and X production, hence longer lead times.

Just a note to add that

Here in way south Texas, we are quite remote from the rest of the US. However, due to SpaceX there is a high Musk presence. We were pleasantly surprised to find a Tesla showroom had recently opened in Brownsville. It’s only 65 miles away which is quite convenient.

These two counties have a population of around 1.5 million, so it’s not small, but we are rather isolated. The closest major city, San Antonio, is 250 miles north of us, and nothing but teeny towns in between.

 

[MRG]

I'm afraid to do a test drive, I'm so close to buying one that it might push me over the edge. I can resist for now, but if they restart the Fed tax credit out to 600,000 vehicles per manufacturer (Green Act or other), I'd probably order a Model Y...

Don't test drive unless you're willing to buy. Don't hurt yourself like that; that's cruel.

In reference to the Y's ride be aware of the difference between the wheels. The 19" Gemini are known for the most comfortable ride and slightly longer range. They're standard for the regular model. The performance model Y has 21" wheels with summer tires and they're not known for a smooth ride or the longest range.

 

[MRG]

As it happens, we have a Model X on order. Unfortunately it looks like it could be a very long wait due to the design refresh......

Models 3 and Y lead times aren’t nearly as long, but still 7-11 weeks.

Congratulations. You will very happy with your X. I met a guy when he had just put the first 250 miles on his [emoji4].

 

[Texas Proud]

Just read an article that stated that one problem that has not yet been solved is the disposition of the used batteries when electric cars are a much higher pct of the fleet...


They said there so far is no easy way to recycle...



Said that the carbon footprint was not taking into account the energy needed to handle the waste and recycling...

 

[NW-Bound]

Just read an article that stated that one problem that has not yet been solved is the disposition of the used batteries when electric cars are a much higher pct of the fleet...

They said there so far is no easy way to recycle...

Said that the carbon footprint was not taking into account the energy needed to handle the waste and recycling...

Nah. Who cares? All people want to know is how many seconds to go from 0 to 60mph.

 

[explanade]

I thought there was talk about repurposing old EV batteries for things like home storage, where it may not be as critical to wring out every last percentage of the battery's efficiency.

A 10 or 15 year old battery may only have 70-80% of the original capacity still so they could still have utility.

 

[NW-Bound]

It would make sense to give EV batteries a 2nd life as fixed-installation energy storage, and there has been talk about it but not lately.

The problem is these EV battery packs are built as a sardine can. The makers all build their battery to be somewhat waterproof (the battery is at the bottom of the car), and pour gunk into the battery can to provide rigidity and protection against vibration.

It takes a lot of work to take the internal cell modules out of the battery enclosure. It typically involves peeling off the lid of the sardine can, and disassembling the interior cell modules.

It is possible to reuse the entire battery assembly intact, but often the internal cell modules are not worn out uniformly. Without taking the cells or modules of cell out of the case to salvage them individually, you would have to throw away the entire battery pack.

For a look at the battery assembly of the Tesla 3, see the following video.

 

[Alan]

I thought there was talk about repurposing old EV batteries for things like home storage, where it may not be as critical to wring out every last percentage of the battery's efficiency.

A 10 or 15 year old battery may only have 70-80% of the original capacity still so they could still have utility.

Our solar panel battery storage is old EV batteries and we were told to expect another 10 years life out of them.

Someone will figure out a way to recycle or safely dispose of them over the next 10 to 20 years.

 

[Koolau]

It would make sense to give EV batteries a 2nd life as fixed-installation energy storage, and there has been talk about it but not lately.

The problem is these EV battery packs are built as a sardine can. The makers all build their battery to be somewhat waterproof (the battery is at the bottom of the car), and pour gunk into the battery can to provide rigidity and protection against vibration.

It takes a lot of work to take the internal cell modules out of the battery enclosure. It typically involves peeling off the lid of the sardine can, and disassembling the interior cell modules.

It is possible to reuse the entire battery assembly intact, but often the internal cell modules are not worn out uniformly. Without taking the cells or modules of cell out of the case to salvage them individually, you would have to throw away the entire battery pack.

For a look at the battery assembly of the Tesla 3, see the following video.

I'm sure all the EV aficionados long ago found the Gruber Motors site, but I only stumbled upon it a few days ago. Though I'll likely never own an EV, I find the site fascinating. Maybe it's the sunglasses but YMMV.

 

[TriumphTR3fan]

Tesla's former Chief Technology Officer & co-founder J.B. Straubel, left & formed Redwood Materials to tackle the issue of battery recycling. There have been several profiles of his new venture on video.