Thoughts on TESLA

[ls99]

I agree with your post but I wanted to correct your misstatement: Greenland was named for Iceland by mistake and Iceland was green because of volcanic action. Not because Greenland was farmed by the Vikings back in the day.

Thanks, appreciate the clarification. AFIK there was farming done on greenland.

 

[Blueskies123]

Wondering why tesla is marketed as an expensive performance car. Oh, and why is the goverment subsidizing a performance car? Much noise is generated about how fast it can accelarate.

Is not the idea of electric cars to be more economical to buy, operate, and be truly more environmentaly friendly than any ICE car. Anotherwords total cost of ownership, compred to generally affordable ICE cars?

Seems Tesla can't compete on price, range, all region, all season useability like even the lowest cost Ford , Chevy or Dodge. What they spout off about is how brutally fast it can accelarate from zero to whatever. Plus all the expensive whiz bang doodads.

These comments remind me of the arguments about cars repacing horses in 1910:


https://www.saturdayeveningpost.com/2017/01/get-horse-americas-skepticism-toward-first-automobiles/



quote:
You’re crazy if you think this fool contraption you’ve been wasting your time on will ever displace the horse.”From my pocket I took a clipping from the New York World of November 17, 1895, and asked him to read it. He brushed it aside. I insisted. It was an interview with Thomas A. Edison: “Talking of horseless carriage suggests to my mind that the horse is doomed. The bicycle, which, 10 years ago, was a curiosity, is now a necessity. It is found everywhere. Ten years from now you will be able to buy a horseless vehicle for what you would pay today for a wagon and a pair of horses. The money spent in the keep of the horses will be saved and the danger to life will be much reduced.”
“It is only a question of a short time when the carriages and trucks of every large city will be run by motors. The expense of keeping and feeding horses in a great city like New York is very heavy, and all this will be done away with

 

[Mr. Tightwad]

Your post just shows your ignorance on this topic and how little research you apparently have done or how closely you have been watching Tesla over the years and recently. Have you reviewed their 10yr plan and the minor chgs. Have you looked at the MR and SR 3 cars or plans for Y. Have you seen which level of cars they are going to be making in the new China factory EOY19/BOY20. Have you seen the EU sales figures. The sales scorecard on insideevs.com over the past couple of years. Then the dozens of announcements and prototypes by competing car companies.

Seriously your post was so bad it was laughable ignorant (lacking knowledge or awareness).

This thread has become so far off (wacky) that it is not even worth subscribing to. This forum, in general, has a handful of posters that really bring down many threads. Peace out.

Absolutely correct about a handful of posters. They spread their negativity and one in particular insults anyone who doesn't think like him.

Shame to see an otherwise good forum go down the toilet.

 

[Mr. Tightwad]

Thank you for the compliment.
Pipe dreams are nice. I am still interested as to why This EV performance car or any EV car getting government subsidy. And why they get a free ride on the public roadways.

I already answered you. But I will repeat it.

The answer is because ICE cars pollute the earth. The government is encouraging you to transition to emission free cars. You will be taxed more in the future if you keep your ICE vehicle. EV's will be paying up as well. The government wants money from them too.

Whether any of this is good or bad, or whatever you want to complain about regarding EV's, the direction we are headed is obvious.

There are lawmakers in power who are determined to make ICE cars obsolete.

 

[MichaelB]

<mod hat on>

Let’s all remember our Dale Carnegie and be polite.

If anyone feels a post is objectionable, it should be reported

The “ignore” button is quite useful for members that simply cannot get along.

Thank you and have a nice day

<mod hat off>

 

[ls99]

I already answered you. But I will repeat it.

The answer is because ICE cars pollute the earth. The government is encouraging you to transition to emission free cars. You will be taxed more in the future if you keep your ICE vehicle. EV's will be paying up as well. The government wants money from them too.

Whether any of this is good or bad, or whatever you want to complain about regarding EV's, the direction we are headed is obvious.

There are lawmakers in power who are determined to make ICE cars obsolete.

Very well, we shall see how this charming experimet of the electorate will turn out.

Cheers!

Carry on

 

[Texas Proud]

These comments remind me of the arguments about cars repacing horses in 1910:


https://www.saturdayeveningpost.com/2017/01/get-horse-americas-skepticism-toward-first-automobiles/



quote:
You’re crazy if you think this fool contraption you’ve been wasting your time on will ever displace the horse.”From my pocket I took a clipping from the New York World of November 17, 1895, and asked him to read it. He brushed it aside. I insisted. It was an interview with Thomas A. Edison: “Talking of horseless carriage suggests to my mind that the horse is doomed. The bicycle, which, 10 years ago, was a curiosity, is now a necessity. It is found everywhere. Ten years from now you will be able to buy a horseless vehicle for what you would pay today for a wagon and a pair of horses. The money spent in the keep of the horses will be saved and the danger to life will be much reduced.”
“It is only a question of a short time when the carriages and trucks of every large city will be run by motors. The expense of keeping and feeding horses in a great city like New York is very heavy, and all this will be done away with

Not a good comparison IMO... the difference between horses and cars was huge... it was a game changer... now, if they were arguing about which kind of horse to use then it would be comparable...


EVs are basically the same as ICE in their function... it is basically the fuel that is different... now, if there was a legit flying car that was safe to use compared to a car on the ground that would be more of a comparison to the buggy and car...

 

[bobandsherry]

Not a good comparison IMO... the difference between horses and cars was huge... it was a game changer... now, if they were arguing about which kind of horse to use then it would be comparable...


EVs are basically the same as ICE in their function... it is basically the fuel that is different... now, if there was a legit flying car that was safe to use compared to a car on the ground that would be more of a comparison to the buggy and car...

Well said Texas. Or maybe if the change was from mule to horse?

 

[aja8888]

If you REALLY want pollution - free transportation, one needs to GO BACK to the horse and buggy. (disallow motorized vehicles)

Then all we would need fuel for is our whale oil lamps, and they would be free of crude oil based fuel too.

 

[WestUniversity]

If you REALLY want pollution - free transportation, one needs to GO BACK to the horse and buggy. (disallow motorized vehicles)



Then all we would need fuel for is our whale oil lamps, and they would be free of crude oil based fuel too.

Exactly. That seems to be something that proponents of electric vehicles often conveniently overlook. Somewhere there is a power plant that is running the power grid that the electric vehicle plugs into . Just because they don’t have exhaust coming from the vehicle doesn’t mean it’s pollution free...

 

[Chuckanut]

If you REALLY want pollution - free transportation, one needs to GO BACK to the horse and buggy. (disallow motorized vehicles)

Then all we would need fuel for is our whale oil lamps, and they would be free of crude oil based fuel too.

Really? IMHO, that would mean more horse manure in our streets, more urine on our streets, more troughs of water, more feed on the ground, and all the insects and rodents they attract. Then add in the increase in various diseases in humans and other animals. That would be far worse than what we have, IMHO.

FWIW, I am not interested in vehicle emissions. I am interested in total emissions including those coming from the nuclear, gas and coal fired power plants that will be needed to generate electricity for the EVs. Also, the ecological effects of building more dams to generate hydro-electric power should be tossed into the mix.

The best way for many of us to fight pollution, global warming, etc. right now is to drive no more of a vehicle than what we need and use it as efficiently as possible by combining trips, taking mass transit where it is available, and sometimes walking or biking. An auto that is parked in the garage produces far less pollution than one on the road.

My 2¢. Take what you wish and leave the rest.

 

[Texas Proud]

I was reading an article on my tablet (not going to go find it) that said Tesla might be in trouble since almost all of the big auto companies have invested so much in EVs that there is going to be a glut of them (IIRC) by 2024 or 25.


The one thing in that article that did interest me is they did say they think the cost of an EV might go below an ICE... if that is the case I can see having one for all the around town driving...


I was thinking and the only time I have to fill up a tank twice is if I am driving on vacation... so, 48 weeks or so I can get by with the EV range...


It would be a change to plug in all the time, but I would think that would become routine after a bit...

 

[NW-Bound]

FWIW, I am not interested in vehicle emissions. I am interested in total emissions including those coming from the nuclear, gas and coal fired power plants that will be needed to generate electricity for the EVs. Also, the ecological effects of building more dams to generate hydro-electric power should be tossed into the mix.

The best way for many of us to fight pollution, global warming, etc. right now is to drive no more of a vehicle than what we need and use it as efficiently as possible by combining trips, taking mass transit where it is available, and sometimes walking or biking. An auto that is parked in the garage produces far less pollution than one on the road...

+1000

Darn! This makes so much sense. And if you want to be green, live in a small house. Or if your house is big, try to raise the thermostat setting in the summer, and lower it in the winter. Else, you are just a big hypocrite.

I want to be green, but the truth is I am not as green as I could be. I do not drive around much with my cars, but I do take long RV treks and burn as much gasoline each year as people do with their cars commuting to work. And I like to travel overseas, and those jets burn fuel by the swimming pool worth.

PS. By the way, a 747 burns 5 gallons of fuel per mile. However, it can carry 500 people, so that works out to 0.01 gal/mile per person. That's better than a hybrid car carrying just the driver for 50 mpg or 0.02 gal/mile. Plus there's no bridge spanning the ocean to drive (else I would do that too).

 

[JoeWras]

+1000

Darn! This makes so much sense. And if you want to be green, live in a small house. Or if your house is big, try to raise the thermostat setting in the summer, and lower it in the winter. Else, you are just a big hypocrite.

Well put. Right now, there is this huge emphasis on cars, and maybe that is off-putting to me because of the narrow focus.

But the decisions we constantly make matter. The latest is home building. Wood is back since it sequesters carbon. All those brick homeowners out there will soon be branded bad people. <sort of just kidding...>

No matter what car you have, doing things like chaining together errands on one trip make a difference.

TSLA is pushing the market and that is good. The way Elon is pushing things is a bit of a problem. His latest letter to employees gives me pause. People's lives are really disrupted.

 

[aja8888]

I was reading an article on my tablet (not going to go find it) that said Tesla might be in trouble since almost all of the big auto companies have invested so much in EVs that there is going to be a glut of them (IIRC) by 2024 or 25.


The one thing in that article that did interest me is they did say they think the cost of an EV might go below an ICE... if that is the case I can see having one for all the around town driving...


I was thinking and the only time I have to fill up a tank twice is if I am driving on vacation... so, 48 weeks or so I can get by with the EV range...


It would be a change to plug in all the time, but I would think that would become routine after a bit...

I've said before that i wouldn't mind a smallish EV for just running around town. Maybe when I decide to thin my fleet down a bit, I'll look into it. (Leaf? Fiat 500e?). No way am I going to spend big bucks for a Tesla though!

I can't seem to part with my 1998 F150 with 48,000 miles on it. It's just too handy and in such nice shape. The 2002 BMW convertible 5 speed is just too much fun and DW likes to go on evening rides in the cool weather with me. It's also my "tinker" vehicle as there is always something to fix on it .

DW's 2013 HYundai SUV is her "go to" car for her and it will be a cold day in Hell to rip that out of her hands on a permanent basis.

So my thoughts on an EV really come down to a sacrifice of one of my personal toys. Not happening anytime soon.

 

[NW-Bound]

I've said before that i wouldn't mind a smallish EV for just running around town. Maybe when I decide to thin my fleet down a bit, I'll look into it. (Leaf? Fiat 500e?). No way am I going to spend big bucks for a Tesla though!

I can't seem to part with my 1998 F150 with 48,000 miles on it. It's just too handy and in such nice shape. The 2002 BMW convertible 5 speed is just too much fun and DW likes to go on evening rides in the cool weather with me. It's also my "tinker" vehicle as there is always something to fix on it .

DW's 2013 HYundai SUV is her "go to" car for her and it will be a cold day in Hell to rip that out of her hands on a permanent basis.

So my thoughts on an EV really come down to a sacrifice of one of my personal toys. Not happening anytime soon.

It still takes a lot of energy and natural resources to build a new car. Maintaining and operating older cars as they still run is greener.

 

[samclem]

It still takes a lot of energy and natural resources to build a new car. Maintaining and operating older cars as they still run is greener.

+1. There's a lot embodied energy in a car. I drive about 5k miles per year, the greenest thing I can do is to keep driving my cars for a long time. Taking care of a car so it can give service for a decade or two saves a lot of energy.

 

[DAYDREAMER]

I'll get to snub EV's as I ride my bike through rush hour traffic!

 

[Chuckanut]

It still takes a lot of energy and natural resources to build a new car. Maintaining and operating older cars as they still run is greener.

+1

People forget that. Mining the raw materials, transforming them, transporting them and assembling them all take resources. So keep that venerable old jalopy going for as long as it is reliable, safe and not spewing pollution through the neighborhood, then replace it with a 50 mpg hybrid. Or, maybe an EV.

While your at it, buy some of those thin, insulating long sleeve undershirts at Costco for about $8 and turn down the thermostat a few degrees.

Many people are looking for the magic bullet, but like being healthy, its often a lot of small things done over time that produce the best, long lasting results.
Just my 2¢. Take what you wish and leave the rest.

 

[ls99]

It still takes a lot of energy and natural resources to build a new car. Maintaining and operating older cars as they still run is greener.

+++
I love driving my 1999 Suburban Gas Guzzler. 7.4 big block, 7200lb. 130K miles. Makes a fine hauler for my 18' Kevlar kayak. In PA we have annual mondatory emission and safety inspections. I may put Classic Tags on it this year.
Do pass on any Tesla made overpriced video game.

 

[Breedlove]

130K on a 1999 suburban ………….That is like brand new ! hell of a lot more comfortable then a video game to ride in . probably more dependable !

 

[ls99]

130K on a 1999 suburban ………….That is like brand new ! hell of a lot more comfortable then a video game to ride in . probably more dependable !

It is akin to driving the living room's easy chair. Brutal power with a modified computer, 50/50 weight distribution makes for near sporty handling. Other than a set of brakes, two sets of tires, tranny fluid &coolant change, never a problem. Will keep it until it, or I are dead. And unlike a tesla do not need a shoe horn to get in or out of.
Edit add: Oh yeah, on the fouth set of batteries for starting it. Got it used in 2000 for $19K

 

[DAYDREAMER]

I don't understand the attraction to Tesla other than they are EV. The styling is a snoozer. Looks like any other boring suppository styled car. I've become numb to vehicles anymore. Just a means to get from point a to b, so get me there the cheapest possible.

 

[Breedlove]

Went to the Houston Auto Show Friday , talked to a Ford REP. He felt EV cars are for city driving and the 70K price for a city car was too much that it will force a person wanting it , to lease it . He said Cars must be Fun, reliable , comfortable and affordable to compete . ….Nothing better then a paid off Suburban !
We drive our Mustang couple hundred miles and feel like we are in a BDSM movie. Twisted like a pretzel …...But it is fun !

 

[Mr. Tightwad]

+1

People forget that. Mining the raw materials, transforming them, transporting them and assembling them all take resources. So keep that venerable old jalopy going for as long as it is reliable, safe and not spewing pollution through the neighborhood, then replace it with a 50 mpg hybrid. Or, maybe an EV.

While your at it, buy some of those thin, insulating long sleeve undershirts at Costco for about $8 and turn down the thermostat a few degrees.

Many people are looking for the magic bullet, but like being healthy, its often a lot of small things done over time that produce the best, long lasting results.
Just my 2¢. Take what you wish and leave the rest.

I haven't turned on the heat or AC since Jan 2016. Not because of green reasons, because I'm cheap. If I lived somewhere else it would be different of course.