Ticklish ring question

[SecondCor521]

Hi all.

I got engaged at age 20 and, as was traditional, gave her a diamond engagement ring. On our wedding day, again as traditional, we added a wedding band, which was combined/soldered/whatever. 16 years and three kids later, she left the marriage. I asked her to consider the ring as marital property. I asked her to give it to our daughter. She and her lawyer declined both these requests.

My Mom died in 2016. In the process of dividing her jewelry as she was on hospice, she steered a rather lovely diamond and emerald ring to me. We all know it was her hope that I would remarry and use that ring as an engagement ring. I will very very likely not remarry.

My son is 20 and has a serious girlfriend. They're both university students.
She is lovely and they're a good match. Engagement / marriage has been discussed for sometime in the moderate future.

On the one hand, I would be delighted to offer this ring to my son -

Of course only if he wants it and likes it and likes the idea of an heirloom ring, and only if she would want it and like it and like the idea of an heirloom ring

- as an engagement ring.

On the other hand, not all marriages work out and not all rings are returned. But I would feel rather churlish to say, "Hey, you (son/GF) can have this, but if it doesn't work out, the family (I and my sisters) want(s) it back"

I don't know how common it is for wedding rings to be handed back in the case of divorce. I would think that it being a family heirloom might increase those odds, but obviously not to 100%.

This currently looks like the best chance to hand this ring on in a meaningful way. None of the other kids or even cousins are in a place to use it. Of course that could change too.

Thoughts / comments appreciated.

 

[davebarnes]

Let it go

 

[Ready]

You can’t put conditions on a gift. If you give it to your son it’s no longer in your control and whatever happens happens.

If it were me I would ask my son if he would like to use it. If he says yes, give it to him with no strings attached. If not, perhaps it’s time to put it up for sale so that someone else can enjoy it.

 

[MarieIG]

Typically rings are given back in the event of a broken engagement, not in the event of a divorce.

Wait till your daughter gets older. She may want an heirloom from her grandmother.

I wore my grandmother's vintage ring (although not constantly) in remembrance.

 

[SecondCor521]

Let it go

No thank you. My neuroses are what keep me busy these days. I appreciate the sentiment, though.

You can’t put conditions on a gift. If you give it to your son it’s no longer in your control and whatever happens happens.

If it were me I would ask my son if he would like to use it. If he says yes, give it to him with no strings attached. If not, perhaps it’s time to put it up for sale so that someone else can enjoy it.

Right you are. I wouldn't sell it as I'd rather see it stay in the family.

Typically rings are given back in the event of a broken engagement, not in the event of a divorce.

Wait till your daughter gets older. She may want an heirloom from her grandmother.

I wore my grandmother's vintage ring (although not constantly) in remembrance.

DD18 may not want it before DS20 gets engaged, so there's a timing aspect to things. DD18 may not want it at all - they're not big on jewelry.

 

[MarieIG]

There is no rush. If your son got engaged, the engagement broke-up and the ring disappeared, you'd be heart broken. That does not happen often, but it does happen.

You can give it to your son for your DIL after they've been married for a few years . . .

 

[SecondCor521]

There is no rush. If your son got engaged, the engagement broke-up and the ring disappeared, you'd be heart broken. That does not happen often, but it does happen.

You can give it to your son for your DIL after they've been married for a few years . . .

True. I think I was idealizing the opportunity of it being the actual engagement ring. It probably doesn't matter as much as I thought it does. More neuroses to play with

 

[Aerides]

Save it for your daughter

 

[Jerry1]

Save it for your daughter

^^This is my general thought. However, I don't see a question raised yet - Did either of your children have a special relationship with your mother? I know in my case, One of my daughter's had a very special relationship with my mother and I would want it to go to her if I were in you situation. Not because she's a daughter (female), but because of the relationship.

In my current world, my oldest grandson has a very special relationship with my wife. I would definitely consider him first if she had a special piece of jewelry I needed to pass down.

 

[SecondCor521]

^^This is my general thought. However, I don't see a question raised yet - Did either of your children have a special relationship with your mother? I know in my case, One of my daughter's had a very special relationship with my mother and I would want it to go to her if I were in you situation. Not because she's a daughter (female), but because of the relationship.

In my current world, my oldest grandson has a very special relationship with my wife. I would definitely consider him first if she had a special piece of jewelry I needed to pass down.

Three kids (DS25, DS20, DD18), but none of them had a particularly close relationship with my Mom, so not really a consideration in my case.

I am not any more inclined to give it to a female offspring of mine vs. a male offspring of mine.

 

[Jerry1]

I am not any more inclined to give it to a female offspring of mine vs. a male offspring of mine.

Well, in a way you are. If you give it to the female, you don't have the problem of getting it back if things don't work out, as described in your original post.

 

[SecondCor521]

Well, in a way you are. If you give it to the female, you don't have the problem of getting it back if things don't work out, as described in your original post.

It is possible my DD18 could give it to a prospective future partner as an engagement ring. So, no, I am not so inclined due to any sex-related differences.

Yes, I am inclined to try to keep this ring in the family, so any practical difference related to that would be a consideration. So if, for example, one of my offspring were going to keep it and wear it for themselves, vs. give it to a partner, I guess that would matter. But I guess I am also somehow trying to honor my Mom's wishes that it be used in a special way, such as as an engagement ring or an anniversary ring. If any of my kids had particularly liked my Mom and wanted to wear it as a remembrance, that would probably work well too.

I think the healthier thing for me is to hold on to it and only give it away when I can do so in a way that is without strings.

 

[RobbieB]

You asked for the ring to be marital property?

Didn't you give it before you got married?

Once you give something away, consider it gone.

 

[ivinsfan]

It is possible my DD18 could give it to a prospective future partner as an engagement ring. So, no, I am not so inclined due to any sex-related differences.

Yes, I am inclined to try to keep this ring in the family, so any practical difference related to that would be a consideration. So if, for example, one of my offspring were going to keep it and wear it for themselves, vs. give it to a partner, I guess that would matter. But I guess I am also somehow trying to honor my Mom's wishes that it be used in a special way, such as as an engagement ring or an anniversary ring. If any of my kids had particularly liked my Mom and wanted to wear it as a remembrance, that would probably work well too.

I think the healthier thing for me is to hold on to it and only give it away when I can do so in a way that is without strings.

Your Mom really hasn't been gone that long, so give it some time. My Mother has been dead for 20 years and it took me 10 years to think about some of the things that went on between us. Nothing bad, just stuff that we never said. So the ring is really just a symbol of your Mom's caring and thinking you are a great son and she would love for you to find a wonderful partner to make you happy. The ring is just a symbol of her affection and caring..a nice symbol, but still a symbol.

Put it away for awhile and then see if someone comes into your life, or if your DD has an interest on it or consider giving it to a sister. The important thing about the ring is what it showed about your Mom's feelings toward you. You might stay unattached, who knows but that doesn't change the fact your Mom thought you were special. Keep it for yourself if you want to, because it's about Mom and not about the ring.

 

[mountainsoft]

My step father drowned when I was a teenager, so when my wife and I got engaged my mom gave us her wedding ring from that marriage. My mom did make the comment she would like the ring back if our marriage didn't work out. I partially blew it off as mom just being mom, and was partially offended that she didn't have faith in our relationship before we were even married (not surprising since mom was already on her 4th marriage).

It's not a fancy ring, but we liked the family connection and added a second band to make it our own. I never gave it much thought afterwards, but several times during early struggles in our marriage my wife mentioned returning it to my mom. I could tell that request weighed heavier on my wife than it did to me.

A few years later my mom pulled away from family and we didn't have any contact for over 20 years. We reconnected after she had a stroke, and though she had remarried since my step father, that is the relationship she still has fond memories of today. To my surprise, after our 34 years of marriage, my wife still asked if she should return the ring to my mother since it meant so much to my mom. I said no, this is your ring, symbolizing our love. It stopped being my mom's the day she passed it on to us. The family connection means nothing to me. I don't care where we got it, it's the ring I gave my wife when we got married. Besides, it has been "our" ring far longer than it was my mom's ring.

Long story short, feel free to offer your ring if your son or daughter wants it. But don't make them feel like they are obligated out of any sense of family tradition. And never, ever, ask for the ring back. If it means that much to you, don't give it away.

Support your son or daughters relationship. If it doesn't work out, the ring is theirs to do with as they please.

 

[Aerides]

I think the healthier thing for me is to hold on to it and only give it away when I can do so in a way that is without strings.

Definitely.

Aside from that, I know again, everyone has preferences, but I'm glad no one ever asked me to take their dear departed relative's ring. I know it's a lovely sentimental thought but...I never liked the idea of someone else's jewelry. I'm not alone in that thought. I didn't even want the ring-on-bended-knee deal, because I like to choose my own jewelry (yes I'm that picky and annoying).

In his first marriage, DH's ex had lost her original wedding ring, then his Mom gave him a ring he could give her as a replacement. When they divorced...yep the ex kept it. He was annoyed enough about that to share the story with me a few years later when we were dating. (me, then, to self: phew, he won't give me his mom's ring!

Put the ring away somewhere safe, put it in your will if it has a value, and then revisit your thoughts on it in 5 or 10 years.

 

[athena53]

Is he thinking of using it as an engagement ring? One practical consideration is that emeralds are pretty delicate and can chip or break. I love jewelry but wouldn't want an emerald in a ring I was going to wear every day.

The one case I know of where the wife returned a family diamond in a divorce was my stepson's. DH and I had had a beautiful diamond from his ex-wife's family mounted in a custom-designed white gold setting as an engagement present when DSS got engaged. DSS divorced a few years later when his wife got tired of waiting for him to grow up and just about everything was in her name. He was left with almost nothing. We had to loan him $$ to buy a car. She did, however, give back the ring. I'd felt a bit bad that DH and I hadn't gone for a platinum setting and after the divorce I was glad I hadn't. The ring is now back with DSS' mom.

Short of a written agreement, though, I'd say there are no guarantees you'd get it back in case of a divorce even if it was the right thing to do.

 

[The Cosmic Avenger]

If you would really rather it go to your son than your daughter, and you cannot abide by the idea of it being kept by an ex-DIL in a divorce, consider offering it to him in 5 or 10 years as an anniversary/recommitment ring. Chances would be much lower then that it would leave your family.

(Personally, I agree with those urging you not to put strings on gifts, as the only thing we can really control are our own actions. IMO, it's like trying to make a point with an inheritance or bequest, it will probably not work, and if it does, the negative impact may be worse than the benefit. But I'm offering this suggestion since you already stated you don't agree with that perspective.)

 

[H2ODude]

When engaged at 19 I gave DW my grandmother's solitaire engagement ring. Otherwise there would have been no such ring due to finances. Sadly, about 10 years ago I noticed the diamond was gone! We searched everywhere but no luck. We picked out a new ring that was close match to replace it. Moral of the story: have a jeweler inspect your important jewelry that's subject to wear every few years.

 

[ckelly78z]

A ring in a drawer isn't worth a dime to most people, but handing it down to your son/DIL will be priceless...but should have no strings attached !

 

[PaunchyPirate]

My opinion... decide which child you wish to have the ring and when. Give the ring. Cut your ties to the ring. It is now theirs.

 

[Nemo2]

Give it to Gollum, he'll look after it.

 

[SecondCor521]

Replies -

@ivinsfan and @mountainsoft, thanks for the encouraging words and good thoughts.

@Aerides, I think just the additional pressure/complication/whatever that would overlay this idea of passing along my Mom's ring to my son to use with his GF nixes the idea. I think I was looking at only the potential upsides. And it would be quite realistic for a future partner to perhaps say at some point that they're OK with it and then end up later having it bug them, possibly years later. I don't want to burden their relationship.

The ring is already in my list of specific bequests.

@athena53, I haven't even discussed it with him. Step #1 was to determine whether the notion was sound by discussing it with y'all on this thread. I don't think at this point it will go any further than that.

@TheCosmicAvenger, not sure if I miscommunicated, or am being inconsistent in my thoughts, or have changed my mind, but I pretty much agree with all of your parenthetical comment. Possibly what I have conveyed is that I do have some conflicting objectives to sort out: don't attach strings to gifts, use this ring in a positive and important way, and treat my three kids roughly equally.

 

[ivinsfan]

Replies -

@ivinsfan and @mountainsoft, thanks for the encouraging words and good thoughts.

@Aerides, I think just the additional pressure/complication/whatever that would overlay this idea of passing along my Mom's ring to my son to use with his GF nixes the idea. I think I was looking at only the potential upsides. And it would be quite realistic for a future partner to perhaps say at some point that they're OK with it and then end up later having it bug them, possibly years later. I don't want to burden their relationship.

The ring is already in my list of specific bequests.

@athena53, I haven't even discussed it with him. Step #1 was to determine whether the notion was sound by discussing it with y'all on this thread. I don't think at this point it will go any further than that.

@TheCosmicAvenger, not sure if I miscommunicated, or am being inconsistent in my thoughts, or have changed my mind, but I pretty much agree with all of your parenthetical comment. Possibly what I have conveyed is that I do have some conflicting objectives to sort out: don't attach strings to gifts, use this ring in a positive and important way, and treat my three kids roughly equally.

You know what I have noticed about you is that when you post a question like this you approach it with an open mind. That's a good quality to make life easier. Come on back with all your questions anytime!!!

 

[Koolau]

You can’t put conditions on a gift. If you give it to your son it’s no longer in your control and whatever happens happens.

If it were me I would ask my son if he would like to use it. If he says yes, give it to him with no strings attached. If not, perhaps it’s time to put it up for sale so that someone else can enjoy it.

DW's parents always wanted to put strings on gifts. They were antique dealers. If they gave us a clock or a chest of drawers, they would say "Now, if you don't want it any more, you have to give it back." I soon just said "NO. Give it or keep it. There's nothing in between." YMMV