Tinnitus help

[bmcgonig]

I haven’t tried acupuncture for my tinnitus. I kind of wondered if acupuncture could work but at what particular areas would they put the needles?

Anyway I found this study, which did prove some improvement at least in these subjects.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5771359/

Here is the procedure you could ask your acupuncturist to use.

“Procedure: Based on previous studies, the acupuncture points suitable for treating tinnitus, including GB2, GB20, SJ21, SI19, SJ17, SJ3, SJ5, LI4, and SI6 points were selected, and the patients received 15 acupuncture sessions (3 times a week). Acupuncture was done by a skilled acupuncturist (B. N.) on specific points. Used needles, filiform or string types, were very delicate and flexible. The size of metal needles was 0.3×0.25 mm. Needles were placed vertically and without anesthesia at the desired points”

 

[GenXguy]

I haven’t tried acupuncture for my tinnitus. I kind of wondered if acupuncture could work but at what particular areas would they put the needles?

Anyway I found this study, which did prove some improvement at least in these subjects.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5771359/

Here is the procedure you could ask your acupuncturist to use.

“Procedure: Based on previous studies, the acupuncture points suitable for treating tinnitus, including GB2, GB20, SJ21, SI19, SJ17, SJ3, SJ5, LI4, and SI6 points were selected, and the patients received 15 acupuncture sessions (3 times a week). Acupuncture was done by a skilled acupuncturist (B. N.) on specific points. Used needles, filiform or string types, were very delicate and flexible. The size of metal needles was 0.3×0.25 mm. Needles were placed vertically and without anesthesia at the desired points”

15 sessions of 5 weeks. That's a lot of getting stuck. There have been other studies showing it ineffective. And if it is effective in some cases, how do you know which acupuncturist knows how to do it effectively?

 

[marko]

15 sessions of 5 weeks. That's a lot of getting stuck. There have been other studies showing it ineffective. And if it is effective in some cases, how do you know which acupuncturist knows how to do it effectively?

Where the needles go and how many sessions is completely dependent upon each individual and the therapist. I got relief on the first session.

They rarely hurt and you don't bleed. You can't think of it in Western terms. It's more of an energy/holistic approach and restoring balance.

Finding the right therapist is the hardest part. Usually a more established outfit vs someone in a strip mall and/or someone who ONLY does acupuncture (vs a 'day spa) is a better bet.

It doesn't work for everyone but for a few hundred bucks what do you have to lose?

 

[bmcgonig]

15 sessions of 5 weeks. That's a lot of getting stuck. There have been other studies showing it ineffective. And if it is effective in some cases, how do you know which acupuncturist knows how to do it effectively?

Yeah, I had the same issues with how does the acupuncturist know where to put the needles.

The point was that if your acupuncturist can follow the above procedure then you have the same chance as those in the study. I’m assuming all acupuncturists know the locations and pin size mentioned in the article.

 

[bmcgonig]

Where the needles go and how many sessions is completely dependent upon each individual and the therapist. I got relief on the first session.

They rarely hurt and you don't bleed. You can't think of it in Western terms. It's more of an energy/holistic approach and restoring balance.

Finding the right therapist is the hardest part. Usually a more established outfit vs someone in a strip mall and/or someone who ONLY does acupuncture (vs a 'day spa) is a better bet.

It doesn't work for everyone but for a few hundred bucks what do you have to lose?

If I were going to do it I would be asking the acupuncturist to put the needles exactly where the successful procedure stated. And you’re right, not a strip mall. Some school of chinese medicine possibly if one is local.

 

[marko]

Yeah, I had the same issues with how does the acupuncturist know where to put the needles.

The point was that if your acupuncturist can follow the above procedure then you have the same chance as those in the study. I’m assuming all acupuncturists know the locations and pin size mentioned in the article.

+1
A real acupuncturist shouldn't need directions on location and needle size. The main input is your pulse...."slippery, wet, dry, hot" etc.

Again, it's entirely different from Western medicine. It's not like "put a needle here and another one there". Not at all like how we think of things. They might put a few needles in your hand or foot to address a stomach problem.

One person's cause of disability could be entirely different from the next person with the same problem being manifested.

It's more about finding where the energy is blocked and rebalancing things. Opening energy paths vs neurological ones. My guy explains it like "smoothing out a wrinkled tablecloth". ( He's also brought my heart PVCs under control)

Not often, but I've seen my skin actually rise up to meet the needle even before he inserts it...like when the needle is about and eighth of an inch away when he’s in the right meridian spot.

As always, it doesn't work for everyone all the time and I've had to change to Western medicine for certain things but overall, I've had good success over the past 30+ years.

 

[marko]

If I were going to do it I would be asking the acupuncturist to put the needles exactly where the successful procedure stated.

You can ask him but he'll likely say "It doesn't work like that". If it did, you could do it yourself at home.

 

[bmcgonig]

You can ask him but he'll likely say "It doesn't work like that". If it did, you could do it yourself at home.

Disagree. To emulate the study it would work exactly like that. I’m sure there’s some art to acupuncture, but there also seems to be some science. And here I’m not proclaiming if the science is good or not, just that they do experiments to test which points might be better.


Example


https://www.healthcmi.com/Acupuncture-Continuing-Education-News/1598-acupuncture-quiets-tinnitus


The research shows an enormous discrepancy between the efficaciousness of two acupuncture point prescriptions. The following acupoints resulted in an 80% total effective rate:

Yiming (extra)
Tianyou (SJ16)
Fengchi (GB20)
Wangu (GB12)
Tinggong (SI19)
Zhongzhu (KD15)
Shangyang (LI1)
Kunlun (BL60)
Juegu (GB39)
Ashi


The following set of acupuncture points only achieved a 50% total effective rate:

Ermen (SJ21)
Tinggong (SI19)
Tinghui (GB2)
Yifeng (SJ17)
Zhongzhu (KD15)
Xiaxi (GB43)

And no I can’t imagine doing it myself even if I knew where those points were ..yikes [emoji16]

 

[marko]

Disagree. To emulate the study it would work exactly like that. I’m sure there’s some art to acupuncture, but there also seems to be some science. .

I'm going to leave it at this: If you had a heart attack, would you demand that your doctor give you the exact same medication and dosage as your neighbor who had a heart attack? Of course not.

Everyone is different. Each case of tinnitus is different with different causes. Where the needles go is individual dependent. Mine is actually caused by gastro problems, other people's tinnitus has other causes. Different treatments.

Of course, you're going by an article and I'm only going by 30+ years of regular treatments for various issues, so maybe you're onto something.

We can agree to disagree. Peace.

 

[Closet_Gamer]

On ways to get sleep....

I bought a pair of lie flat bluetooth ear buds inside of a headband. Designed for sleeping.

Cost: $16
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08SJ44CNP?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

Then I downloaded an app called "Relief" from ReSound. Its free and allows you to build a custom mix of sounds to best deal with your particular version of tinnitus. Most night a combo of cicaddas, crickets, violet noise and ocean is perfect for me. Other nights I need higher frequency noise. App will automatically shut off the sounds on a timer.

Very, very useful for me. Took a lot of experimenting to find the right app. Loads of garbage apps out there.

YMMV

 

[GenXguy]

On ways to get sleep....

I bought a pair of lie flat bluetooth ear buds inside of a headband. Designed for sleeping.

I have some that look identical to those - paid a little more for them a few years back

I've read warnings on the tinnitus forum repeatedly that you should not use headphones or earbuds if you have tinnitus and that it can make it worse.

What I ended up doing was getting a pair of bluetooth speakers that I have on each side of me, so it's balanced when I am sleeping on my back.

Then I downloaded an app called "Relief" from ReSound

I've used apps like MyNoise, Resound, Youtube, and Calm playing different types of sounds like white noise, environmental sounds, sleep stories. Also have an Electrofan. But my different tinnitus sounds are bad enough now that I can't mask it without the masking sounds being uncomfortably loud. But even though I can't mask my loud tinnitus, I still use those apps to mix in some sounds rather than being stuck with only my tinnitus sound, which I think helps. But then a night like last night, I only slept 2 1/2 to 3 hours, and almost none after taking a sleep / anti-anxiety pill.

I've had noticeable tinnitus going back over 20 years probably, but it's gotten more annoying in recent years, and quite a bit worse just over a year ago.

I miss the days when my tinnitus was mild enough that I could easily mask it with a comfortable sound like a fan.

 

[bmcgonig]

I have some that look identical to those - paid a little more for them a few years back

I've read warnings on the tinnitus forum repeatedly that you should not use headphones or earbuds if you have tinnitus and that it can make it worse.

What I ended up doing was getting a pair of bluetooth speakers that I have on each side of me, so it's balanced when I am sleeping on my back.

I've used apps like MyNoise, Resound, Youtube, and Calm playing different types of sounds like white noise, environmental sounds, sleep stories. Also have an Electrofan. But my different tinnitus sounds are bad enough now that I can't mask it without the masking sounds being uncomfortably loud. But even though I can't mask my loud tinnitus, I still use those apps to mix in some sounds rather than being stuck with only my tinnitus sound, which I think helps. But then a night like last night, I only slept 2 1/2 to 3 hours, and almost none after taking a sleep / anti-anxiety pill.

I've had noticeable tinnitus going back over 20 years probably, but it's gotten more annoying in recent years, and quite a bit worse just over a year ago.

I miss the days when my tinnitus was mild enough that I could easily mask it with a comfortable sound like a fan.

Does your tinnitus getting worse possibly correspond to a hearing decline? The reason I ask is that mine is louder in my left than right ear, and my hearing is also measured as worse in my left. Left ear is normal up to 4K then drops off quickly and considerably, the right ear is the same except for 4.8k.

 

[GenXguy]

Does your tinnitus getting worse possibly correspond to a hearing decline? The reason I ask is that mine is louder in my left than right ear, and my hearing is also measured as worse in my left. Left ear is normal up to 4K then drops off quickly and considerably, the right ear is the same except for 4.8k.

Yes, I do have some moderate hearing loss through a wide range of frequencies. It's not that much different between the ears among the frequencies tested from what I recall from a hearing test that I had done over the summer. Both ears top out at about 8 khz, which is the about the frequency of my primary tinnitus that has been bothersome over the last year, and I noticed I had more difficulties understanding some things on TV right after the increase in tinnitus just over a year ago. I also have some low frequency variable tinnitus in my left ear going back over 2 years, and very recently, a new mid tone frequency of about 1250 hz that slowly fades in and out on my right ear.

 

[glanmit]

I live with tinnitus for about 6 years now and the only thing which makes it better at night - noise machine.

 

[ER Eddie]

I have it too. I developed it about 3 months ago. It was intermittent before that, then it became steady. For the first week or two, I was very distressed by it. I found it very distracting, and I worried that it would be like this forever and would greatly decrease my quality of life.

I found educating myself on tinnitus very helpful. One of the most important things I learned was that there was a big difference between tinnitus (the sound itself) and "tinnitus distress," which is how much the sound bothers you. Turns out, the latter has little to do with the actual volume. It has to do with how you think about the sound, how you react to it. This makes a huge difference in whether people adjust well to their tinnitus over time and people who don't. For example, some people catastrophize about the tinnitus (as I was doing in the first week, thinking it would greatly impact my ability to focus for the rest of my life, and thus my happiness), and some people learn to see it realistically for what it is. They let it be; they allow it rather than get upset or down about it.

One of the other things I learned, which I found very reassuring, was that, in 97% of the cases, people's brains adapted to the tinnitus within 6 to 18 months, almost regardless of what they did. Only 3% remained significantly distressed by it. This is because the brain naturally habituates over time. It eventually learns that the sound is meaningless, and so it doesn't need to pay attention to it.

I'm about three months into my tinnitus now, and I've noticed this habituation process happening. In fact, I noticed it starting to happen within the first couple of weeks. So if your friend is distressed by his/her tinnitus, let him/her know that in 6 to 18 months, 97% of people have habituated to the sound (i.e., the sound no longer bothers them or is a significant distraction). This is research-based data, btw, not just some yahoo spouting off.

Other things...

It helps to be aware that there is, for most cases, no cure for the sound itself. The distress and distraction will fade, but the sound itself will stay, because tinnitus is usually the brain's adaptation to loss of hair cells. This is true in most cases, although I won't claim there aren't any exceptions. If you want to know, just get checked out by an ENT. My doc said he suspected it was high-range hearing loss, and indeed that's what the tests showed.

Understanding the nature of tinnitus helps you from getting suckered by all sorts of "miracle cures," which your family and friends will be sending you links to, thinking they are being helpful. Tinnitus is very common (something like 15% of the older population has it?), so there are all kinds of scam artists trying to make a buck by peddling miracle cures.

Also, as I'm sure others have mentioned, sound masking can be very helpful. I have a sound machine in my bedroom, because tinnitus is more noticeable in quiet environments. Sometimes, I will play cricket or rain noises in the living room.

I've found this channel helpful:

https://www.youtube.com/@benthompsonaud/playlists

Good luck!

 

[2HOTinPHX]

^^^^^^^ Thanks for posting this. Very good info. I have ringing that is mostly noticed when it is extremely quiet like at bedtime. The snorelab app has a time to sleep feature with sounds like rain to help you fall asleep. I find it also helps distract from the ringing.

 

[Telly]

...One of the other things I learned, which I found very reassuring, was that, in 97% of the cases, people's brains adapted to the tinnitus within 6 to 18 months, almost regardless of what they did. Only 3% remained significantly distressed by it. This is because the brain naturally habituates over time. It eventually learns that the sound is meaningless, and so it doesn't need to pay attention to it.

I'm about three months into my tinnitus now, and I've noticed this habituation process happening. In fact, I noticed it starting to happen within the first couple of weeks. So if your friend is distressed by his/her tinnitus, let him/her know that in 6 to 18 months, 97% of people have habituated to the sound (i.e., the sound no longer bothers them or is a significant distraction). This is research-based data, btw, not just some yahoo spouting off.

Interesting! A strong parallel to the brain's acceptance over time of visual floaters. I have an extensive collection of floaters, some unusual like top-connected windshield wipers. Over time, I don't "notice" them. Until suddenly I do, by thinking of them, or situations that pop up. Then they "recede" into the background, quite quickly.

Reading the latest posts in this thread this morning, made my usual baseline tinnitus "come back". Of course it is there all the time, I just don't usually notice it, as it became part of everyday life, like breathing, we don't think of it, until we do.

 

[kgtest]

My ears seem to be ringing louder today. I do agree, if I let it bother me, it seems to be "louder" or just pushes my brain to focus negatively on the sound. I will be lieing in bed over-thinking the ringing some nights, and other nights I fall right asleep. It bothers me more when I am around consistently loud noises and environments. Mine started when I was around some loud equipment for a weekend without ear protection. (Wood splitter, dingo, chain saws).

 

[Major Tom]

I deal with mine by trying to kid myself that I went to a loud concert last night and had a great time

But seriously. I developed tinnitus shortly after being hit over the back of the head by a mentally ill neighbor a few months ago. Brain scans revealed no damage, which was a relief. I have been offered a referral to an audiologist, that I will probably take. It has only been 3 months, so I am still hoping it will resolve over time. I find that getting outside helps, as does letting water run into the affected ear when I shower. Luckily, even when I hear the ringing, it is mild. It bothered me when I thought about the incident that triggered it, but I am mostly past that now. I am lucky, in that it is not severe enough to impact my quality of life. It's just a mild pain in the something-or-other.

I'm a ham radio operator, and do quite a bit of Morse code with headphones on. The whooshing sound of the band noise (which is similar to white noise) helps to mask it.

As an aside, shortly after developing it, I asked for advice from my friends and family on Facebook, and was surprised to learn how many people I know have it. It is very, very common.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

Interesting! A strong parallel to the brain's acceptance over time of visual floaters. I have an extensive collection of floaters, some unusual like top-connected windshield wipers. Over time, I don't "notice" them. Until suddenly I do, by thinking of them, or situations that pop up. Then they "recede" into the background, quite quickly.

Reading the latest posts in this thread this morning, made my usual baseline tinnitus "come back". Of course it is there all the time, I just don't usually notice it, as it became part of everyday life, like breathing, we don't think of it, until we do.

Floaters are also linked to a variety of nutritional deficiencies. I had a lot a couple of years ago and they've been clearing up with certain yoga poses, along with changing my diet and supplements. I think for me the main issue was likely a vitamin D deficiency.

From Pubmed - " The findings of this study indicate improvements in vision-related quality of life and visual function of patients suffering from vitreous floaters after supplementation with a formulation of antioxidative and antiglycation micronutrients. Notably, these improvements were confirmed by the decrease in vitreous opacity areas in the active group.", https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34647961/

For me, Pubmed is like the X-files. The answers are out there.

 

[Pellice]

I've had tinnitus and serious deafness in one ear most of my adult life. I got used to it, and one thing that helped was the realization that the closest comparable sound was insect noise at night in summer - which is a sound I very much enjoy. While I don't enjoy the tinnitus, framing it in this way does help.

 

[GenXguy]

I found educating myself on tinnitus very helpful. One of the most important things I learned was that there was a big difference between tinnitus (the sound itself) and "tinnitus distress," which is how much the sound bothers you. Turns out, the latter has little to do with the actual volume. It has to do with how you think about the sound, how you react to it. This makes a huge difference in whether people adjust well to their tinnitus over time and people who don't.

Not true. I've had tinnitus over 20 years, but it got a lot worse over a year ago. The volume makes a big difference, now throw in various tinnitus sounds - hissing, buzzing, musical tones, ringing, humming, some that are constantly fluctuating from second to second, and differences between ears and getting louder as months/years pass. It's not your every day tinnitus of a steady background ringing sound that most people think of. Some people on the tinnitus forum can't hear their own voice over their tinnitus. It can get very bad. And sometimes hyperacusis adds to the agony with physical pain to any sound you hear, and people will confine themselves away in quiet and avoid people. I don't have that. My tinnitus laughs at those sound machines - they do not mask it - I hear it over pretty much everything all day long. Heck, I could hear it easily over a large box fan even before the tinnitus got worse a year ago. Just protect your ears and hope that your tinnitus remains mild, unlike many on the tinnitus forum. The suicide thread is one of the most posted to.

 

[GenXguy]

As an aside, shortly after developing it, I asked for advice from my friends and family on Facebook, and was surprised to learn how many people I know have it. It is very, very common.

Yes, many people have it, but the vast majority have a mild case, like I started out with 20+ years ago, when it didn't even affect my sleep and was easily masked with a fan.

I think it's about 0.5% of the population that has bad enough tinnitus that it has a significant effect on their quality of life, that's 1 out of 200 people. I'm one of those, primarily because it causes me to get too little sleep, which I had gone into a lot of detail about earlier in the thread. Noise machines and all of the other countless sleeping tips on the interwebs that I've read through countless hours of research have not resolved the issue for me.

 

[SJhawkins]

I deal with mine by trying to kid myself that I went to a loud concert last night and had a great time

But seriously. I developed tinnitus shortly after being hit over the back of the head by a mentally ill neighbor a few months ago. Brain scans revealed no damage, which was a relief. I have been offered a referral to an audiologist, that I will probably take. It has only been 3 months, so I am still hoping it will resolve over time. I find that getting outside helps, as does letting water run into the affected ear when I shower. Luckily, even when I hear the ringing, it is mild. It bothered me when I thought about the incident that triggered it, but I am mostly past that now. I am lucky, in that it is not severe enough to impact my quality of life. It's just a mild pain in the something-or-other.

I'm a ham radio operator, and do quite a bit of Morse code with headphones on. The whooshing sound of the band noise (which is similar to white noise) helps to mask it.

As an aside, shortly after developing it, I asked for advice from my friends and family on Facebook, and was surprised to learn how many people I know have it. It is very, very common.

Could be to much _._. _ _._ going on In all seriousness hope it resolves.

 

[bmcgonig]

Since tinnitus can be related or even caused by a loss or diminution of hearing at a certain frequency I have read that hearing aids can help. Has anyone tried getting one?