Tip the Owner?

[mickeyd]

Our crowd went out at a local cafe to have lunch. For some reason the owner was our waiter. He did a good job of waiting. Normally you do not tip an owner as his compensation is in the return he makes on his investment (the operation of the eatery). DW paid our bill with a CC and I later looked to find that she left a 20% tip. I also noticed that we were charged about $1.50 for using a CC.

She was never advised by owner of the CC fee, but that's another story. My Q is, should one tip an owner who waits your table? Seems like double dipping to me.

Let the tippers and anti-tippers proceed.

 

[mn54]

i don't have a problem leaving a tip even if the owner was your server. often times tips are pooled and shared not only with the other wait staff but with the back of the house as well, i.e. cooks and dishwashers, etc. as far as the cc fee, there should have been a sign informing you of the fee, a note on your bill before you paid it or the server should have told you when you gave them your cc to pay the bill. i would say most people pay with a cc at restaurants and i have never seen a fee for using one.

 

[Aerides]

often times tips are pooled and shared not only with the other wait staff but with the back of the house as well, i.e. cooks and dishwashers, etc.

exactly.

 

[Kork13]

I'd absolutely tip my server, regardless of if he owned the place or was just hired the day before. As stated, tips are often pooled among the restaurant staff. Besides, he still provided a service for which (whether you agree with the practice or not) a tip is socially expected. My best guess is that one of his servers missed their shift, so he was covering for the shortfall. I'm never going to hold it against a business owner who is ready to roll up their sleeves and do the work themselves.

Personally, I wish we could just incorporate server pay into the stated cost of meals & abolish the expectation of obligatory tips. But, that just won't happen... So we must follow the system that we have.

 

[Yoheadden]

i don't have a problem leaving a tip even if the owner was your server. often times tips are pooled and shared not only with the other wait staff but with the back of the house as well, i.e. cooks and dishwashers, etc. as far as the cc fee, there should have been a sign informing you of the fee, a note on your bill before you paid it or the server should have told you when you gave them your cc to pay the bill. i would say most people pay with a cc at restaurants and i have never seen a fee for using one.

+1

 

[SecondAttempt]

i don't have a problem leaving a tip even if the owner was your server. often times tips are pooled and shared not only with the other wait staff but with the back of the house as well, i.e. cooks and dishwashers, etc. as far as the cc fee, there should have been a sign informing you of the fee, a note on your bill before you paid it or the server should have told you when you gave them your cc to pay the bill. i would say most people pay with a cc at restaurants and i have never seen a fee for using one.

+1

I used to operate a vacation rental, an AirBnB. On a VERY few occasions a guest would leave a tip. I always passed it on to the cleaner. I just did not feel right as an owner accepting a tip. The first time it happened my property manager (a real estate agent) suggest we split it. I was taken aback I simply told her that I preferred to give it to the cleaner and she never asked again.

And if anyone is wondering, in dozens of rentals over 10 years I think a tip was left maybe 4 times. Don't let anyone tell you it is customary or expected at a vacation rental!

 

[brucethebroker]

Personally, I wish we could just incorporate server pay into the stated cost of meals & abolish the expectation of obligatory tips. But, that just won't happen... So we must follow the system that we have.

I respectfully disagree-no one "must".

 

[W2R]

I'd absolutely tip my server, regardless of if he owned the place or was just hired the day before. As stated, tips are often pooled among the restaurant staff.

+1

Makes sense to me.

Often at the small "mom'n'pop" Italian or Chinese or other ethnic restaurants that we go to, the server is either the owner or a family member because the family is all that works there. I never would have thought of not tipping if the owner was my server.

Likewise, I would tip the owner of a larger restaurant as well, if he was my server that day.

As for the credit card charge, well, that happens sometimes. We always pay cash so credit card fees are not an issue for us.

 

[donheff]

I don't understand people who want to stiff wait staff, guides, and others who rely on tips. It would be better if they got good salaries instead of tips but they don't. If you don't want to tip stay home or do something else that doesn't involve tipping. Note: this comment is not directed at the OP who clearly wants to do the right thing and wanted to know whether another arcane US tradition applies (call it the beauty shop owner exception).

 

[The Cosmic Avenger]

I respectfully disagree-no one "must".

The tipped minimum wage has not been raised a single penny in 31 years. Just adjusting for inflation, the $2.13 it was last raised to in 1991 would be about $4.63 today, so the wage has lost over half its value due to inflation.

If you could find 80 hours of work a week at the current tipped minimum wage and didn't take any time off, you would earn less than $1,000 a month, and less than $9,000 for the whole year.

So if you refuse to tip, then as Kork13 implied, you should not be eating out at table service restaurants.

 

[Midpack]

I tip servers, doesn't matter who it is. For all you know, the owner is throwing whatever tip he/she got into a tip pool for all servers, maybe not even taking a cut. Assuming you know and acting based on that is presumptuous.

I can't believe we have to keep arguing about leaving a few bucks as a tip among a bunch of FI retirees. If you don't want to tip, stay home or buy from vending machines...and quit whining about tips. Another reason thread on tips involved an OP who was asking whether or not to tip 30 cents - seriously

 

[Aerides]

I used to operate a vacation rental, an AirBnB. On a VERY few occasions a guest would leave a tip. I always passed it on to the cleaner.

I can near guarantee you that was the guest's intent - just as when I stay in a hotel and leave money on the bedside table, that is for the housekeeper. Some people probably do it by habit no matter where they stay.

I can't believe we have to keep arguing about leaving a few bucks as a tip among a bunch of FI retirees. If you don't want to tip, stay home or buy from vending machines...and quit whining about tips.

And the alternative to tipping would be restaurants raising prices 15-20% across the board, and I'm sure no one here would complain about that either...

 

[ShokWaveRider]

The tipped minimum wage has not been raised a single penny in 31 years. Just adjusting for inflation, the $2.13 it was last raised to in 1991 would be about $4.63 today, so the wage has lost over half its value due to inflation.

If you could find 80 hours of work a week at the current tipped minimum wage and didn't take any time off, you would earn less than $1,000 a month, and less than $9,000 for the whole year.

So, if you refuse to tip, then as Kork13 implied, you should not be eating out at table service restaurants.

Firstly, I am NOT against tipping, and do so accordingly. Before the vultures swoop.

But I totally disagree with these statements. If you do not like the job, feel you do not get paid enough, or cannot make it on the wages, get a new one that pays more. ESPECIALLY in this day of short staffed businesses. That is what we did as youngsters and are reaping the benefits now and when we ER'd. The ONLY way these cheap greedy restauranteurs will learn is when folks refuse to work for those wages. You get what you sow.

No one is FORCED to do anything in America. Telling someone to stay home because they disagree in tipping paid employees for DOING THEIR JOB, is simply draconian. OK, their wages are not good, but that is an AMERICAN problem. They pay regular sustainable wages in other civilized sensible countries.

Greed has taken over the served food industry just as it has everywhere folks can get away with it in the USA.

Most sensible folks would rather pay more for the food, than be scowled at by "Whoever" even folks on this site, for not giving what one person thinks is a suitable tip.

So give it up shaming people for doing what they think is right, because someone else does not agree with it. Just because some folks like to throw their money around and let others know about it, other do not. Tipping in OPTIONAL and personal. Remember some folks cannot afford to give tips, even a modest one. Should they be prohibited from eating out once in a while?

 

[latexman]

Our crowd went out at a local cafe to have lunch. For some reason the owner was our waiter. He did a good job of waiting. Normally you do not tip an owner as his compensation is in the return he makes on his investment (the operation of the eatery). DW paid our bill with a CC and I later looked to find that she left a 20% tip.

My Q is, should one tip an owner who waits your table? Seems like double dipping to me.

Where do you draw the line? What if the server was his wife, son, daughter, grandchild, mom, dad, brother, sister, niece, or nephew?

 

[Midpack]

Most sensible folks would rather pay more for the food, than be scowled at by "Whoever" even folks on this site, for not giving what one person thinks is a suitable tip.

Your opinion, no basis in fact. A significant number of restaurants have tried the no tip model, paying servers higher base pay with higher food prices, and it has failed over and over again - Danny Meyer restaurants are a good example, and not the only one. If anything, where people actually choose (vs talking) to spend their restaurant dollars suggests the tip model is still preferred by most diners. I’ll even give you a link since you haven’t read about it https://nypost.com/2020/07/21/restaurateur-danny-meyer-nixes-famous-no-tipping-policy/

The irony is customers are going to pay about the same anyway, either low prices plus tips, or higher prices without added tips. So it comes down to who is math challenged and who isn’t?

 

[ShokWaveRider]

Your opinion, no basis in fact. A significant number of restaurants have tried the no tip model, paying servers higher base pay with higher food prices, and it has failed over and over again - Danny Meyer restaurants are a good example, amd not the only one. If anything, where people choose to spend their restaurant dollars suggests the tip model is still preferred. I’ll even give you a link since you haven’t read about it https://nypost.com/2020/07/21/restaurateur-danny-meyer-nixes-famous-no-tipping-policy/

The irony is customers are going to pay about the same anyway, either low prices plus tips, or higher prices without added tips. So it comes down to who is math challenged and who isn’t?

Your link is based on the pandemic and things changed with that, but I was being more general with my points. It is still my opinion and that of a lot of our friends and relatives, they would rather pay more.

When I first came over from the UK, where folks are paid properly for the most part, I could not understand why folks who are doing a job and being paid for it should be tipped, but "When in Rome". Admittedly things have changed over the years. Taxi drivers were always the acceptation, as it is like that all over the world.

Again, I am not against tipping fairly when appropriate. My real point is that some folks (Not all by any means, and certainly not the majority) choose to shame folks who choose not to tip or to tip actually based on good service. To me it is hypocritical to complain about service at a place and to still feel obliged to leave a tip to save face. Defeats the object of Tipping. Remember it is OPTIONAL and personal.

To me it is similar to an Atheist, shaming a person for going to church or a specific one. While they may think it is pointless, others to not. Live and let live. All the shaming will not change one's opinion. If someone wants to leave a 20 -25% tip for mediocre service to a person who is being paid to do it, that is fine.

Enough said.

 

[ERD50]

... And the alternative to tipping would be restaurants raising prices 15-20% across the board, and I'm sure no one here would complain about that either...

I'd welcome it.

Provide the service and charge me accordingly. Tipping is asking me to evaluate their employees performance - that's the manager's job.

Plus, I have absolutely no idea what the staff is making. They could be making big bucks on those tips, or barely above minimum wage. I have no insight to that, so why am I making salary decisions for them? It makes zero sense.

In my career, I had to do performance reviews and was a part of that salary review process. But I had access to information that I don't have at the restaurants. Don't ask me to do that when all I want is a meal.

-ERD50

 

[Midpack]

Your link is based on the pandemic and things changed with that, but I was being more general with my points. It is still my opinion and that of a lot of our friends and relatives, they would rather pay more.

Again, I am not against tipping fairly when appropriate. My real point is that some folks (Not all by any means, and certainly not the majority) choose to shame folks who choose not to tip or to tip actually based on good service. To me it is hypocritical to complain about service at a place and to still feel obliged to leave a tip to save face. Defeats the object of Tipping. Remember it is OPTIONAL and personal.

Again, I said that was one example, and DM started his campaign in 2015. You can't conclude C19 killed the idea. Maybe read more about it, pre pandemic, here are some others and there are many more https://www.npr.org/sections/thesal...he experiment, which only lasted three months. If you read about it, servers often find out they make less with the no tipping policies, and go elsewhere. I was a server a long time ago in a high end restaurant, made a ton of money. Some servers don't make much, but many make quite a bit per hour.

Your friends and family are anecdotal evidence at best. The majority of diners have not shown a preference for the no tip model in the USA, and neither have most servers so far.

No one here has categorically shamed anyone for how much of a tip they leave, as long as it correlates with service and some defensible % norms. It's the posters who object to tips altogether, in a sector where servers depend on tips for most of their income (and it's "personal" don't post objections here, keep it to yourself). Find and go to restaurants with no tip policies, if you can find one, if you object to being responsible for tips yourself. People say they want higher prices so servers can have higher wages, but most don't actually frequent those restaurants when they have the option - other than your friends and family.

If the US wholesale adopts no tipping in restaurants by legislation and/or popular demand so be it, some diners will accept it, some may not - dining out is discretionary for most. But quit whining about what is until then.

 

[Montecfo]

In the OP's situation, I would tip the waiter. I agree you generally do not tip the owner, but the owner was doing the waiter's job.

As a former waiter, the angst over tipping and the tipped minimum wage is misplaced. As others have said, wait staff are free to leave jobs for which they feel underpaid, especially in this market.

Burt wait staff generally support the status quo. Why? they make more money than they would as a clock puncher and are rewarded for their efforts directly. People who want to earn full min wage have lots of options.

 

[freedomatlast]

Tipping is OPTIONAL and personal. Remember some folks cannot afford to give tips, even a modest one. Should they be prohibited from eating out once in a while?

Well, sometimes it's optional.

We were in a restaurant last week and our party had 12 people at the table. At the end of the meal, I was presented with the bill that had a "20% Large Party Gratuity" already figured in on the total amount. Then I was given the option to add even more on top of that after I gave them my credit card. This was on a bill of between four and five hundred dollars. And the service was slow and inaccurate. Maybe since they knew they were going to get a minimum 20% tip no matter what, they didn't care.

 

[Midpack]

In the OP's situation, I would tip the waiter. I agree you generally do not tip the owner, but the owner was doing the waiter's job.

As a former waiter, the angst over tipping and the tipped minimum wage is misplaced. As others have said, wait staff are free to leave jobs for which they feel underpaid, especially in this market.

But wait staff generally support the status quo. Why? they make more money than they would as a clock puncher and are rewarded for their efforts directly. People who want to earn full min wage have lots of options.

Exactly. I made a lot as a waiter years ago, though I know servers in low end restaurants and/or part time servers may not. Servers have found the do make less in most no tip policy restaurants so far, no tip advocates don't bother to read about those actual experiments.

 

[Midpack]

I'd welcome it.

Provide the service and charge me accordingly. Tipping is asking me to evaluate their employees performance - that's the manager's job.

Plus, I have absolutely no idea what the staff is making. They could be making big bucks on those tips, or barely above minimum wage. I have no insight to that, so why am I making salary decisions for them? It makes zero sense.

In my career, I had to do performance reviews and was a part of that salary review process. But I had access to information that I don't have at the restaurants. Don't ask me to do that when all I want is a meal.

-ERD50

How would the manager know as much about your specific experience as you the diner do? Being a server involves a process and soft skills, the manager only knows about the latter by exception - they don't have performance metrics like you probably had in performance reviews. As said elsewhere, go to restaurants with stated no tip policies if you prefer. And it's not correct to assume all servers object to the current tipping structure, there are multiple data points from no tip restaurants that show otherwise, many reverted back to tipping.

 

[ShokWaveRider]

Well, sometimes it's optional.

We were in a restaurant last week and our party had 12 people at the table. At the end of the meal, I was presented with the bill that had a "20% Large Party Gratuity" already figured in on the total amount. Then I was given the option to add even more on top of that after I gave them my credit card. This was on a bill of between four and five hundred dollars. And the service was slow and inaccurate. Maybe since they knew they were going to get a minimum 20% tip no matter what, they didn't care.

They are laughing all the way to the bank at the customer's expense! However, in this case you probably knew as I am sure you saw it in the small print on the menu.

Although, doing some math it works out the same. $500 / 6 (assuming a couple as folks normally dine out in pairs or more) = ~$84. $84 x 20% = $16.8. x 6 =~$100. The fact some would not have tipped 20% for par or subpar service is another story. I would not have, maybe 10% at a push.

Unfortunately, these places know very few folks complain about subpar service, at least not with the establishment. They just grin and bear it. They will keep on taking advantage of one's good nature, what do they have to lose?

 

[ivinsfan]

The tipped minimum wage has not been raised a single penny in 31 years. Just adjusting for inflation, the $2.13 it was last raised to in 1991 would be about $4.63 today, so the wage has lost over half its value due to inflation.

If you could find 80 hours of work a week at the current tipped minimum wage and didn't take any time off, you would earn less than $1,000 a month, and less than $9,000 for the whole year.

So if you refuse to tip, then as Kork13 implied, you should not be eating out at table service restaurants.

So I have question, how many servers actually only make 2.13 an hour.? I always see this argument trotted out and have no idea how many people it actually applies to. I'm genuinely curious at this. Maybe CA knows the answer since he knows 2.13 number..

 

[ivinsfan]

Firstly, I am NOT against tipping, and do so accordingly. Before the vultures swoop.

But I totally disagree with these statements. If you do not like the job, feel you do not get paid enough, or cannot make it on the wages, get a new one that pays more. ESPECIALLY in this day of short staffed businesses. That is what we did as youngsters and are reaping the benefits now and when we ER'd. The ONLY way these cheap greedy restauranteurs will learn is when folks refuse to work for those wages. You get what you sow.

No one is FORCED to do anything in America. Telling someone to stay home because they disagree in tipping paid employees for DOING THEIR JOB, is simply draconian. OK, their wages are not good, but that is an AMERICAN problem. They pay regular sustainable wages in other civilized sensible countries.

Greed has taken over the served food industry just as it has everywhere folks can get away with it in the USA.

Most sensible folks would rather pay more for the food, than be scowled at by "Whoever" even folks on this site, for not giving what one person thinks is a suitable tip.

So give it up shaming people for doing what they think is right, because someone else does not agree with it. Just because some folks like to throw their money around and let others know about it, other do not. Tipping in OPTIONAL and personal. Remember some folks cannot afford to give tips, even a modest one. Should they be prohibited from eating out once in a while?

I often wonder when so many of your posts are interlaced with bashing the US, for example by calling it uncivilized, why you continue living in and bashing this country. This is the second time in just this thread where you are bashing. On the do you put cash in sympathy cards thread no one seems to knows why some areas of the country think it's fine and other areas think it tacky. So we tip in the US and don't in other countries, no need to make it personal.



You're absolutely entitled to your opinion about tipping but it would if nice if you didn't talk smack about an entire country.