Tip the Owner?

[ShokWaveRider]

I often wonder when so many of your posts are interlaced with bashing the US, for example by calling it uncivilized

I said "Other Civilized", where do you get uncivilized from?

Things will never change unless the people instigate it, being complacent does not work.

 

[aja8888]

And the alternative to tipping would be restaurants raising prices 15-20% across the board, and I'm sure no one here would complain about that either...

Based on the places we visit here, it appears that price increase has already be accomplished!

And we tip for good service, no matter who serves us.

 

[MichealKnight]

I wondered the same

When in doubt I always err on the side of tipping. Frankly - I love the tipping system - I think its one of the few things left where someone earns what they are worth, and the customer - can have a bit of say in level of service -- - I'm not big on "open a chat box" which in some sectors is the new modicum of service. Sure. there's those who will say "I don't like it. Just pay them a living wage" -- but in the meantime those same folks will be blogging on "fairness!!!" "raise the minn wage!!!" - -but when it comes down to me and a server yes, I like to tip well if warranted. Maybe not in the college grad populated cubicles and maybe not in the denizens of direct deposit of the Club 401K professional class....but on street level - I believe people work for incentives, and I believe a man's job description is his pay plan and vice versa. Anyhow back to topic......

A regular mid-level pizza / Italian place we go to for years, lately he doesn't have enough staff and like most good small business owners - he rolls up his sleeves and jumps in. You won't hear this breed say "that's not my job" or "I'm overqualified for that"


I was thinking same thing - and decided to tip as I always do. Sure he owns it- bit he's doing that job - I was gonna pay someone a tip that meal - might as well be him - it's his labor. Maybe he keeps it, maybe it goes to his staff - I dunno but I'm patronizing - hence I tip. I would *never* do this - but let's say I went to that oh so nice quant little picture frame shop (that gasp! is not a big box) in some bubble-dwelling-yoga-studio-adorned-locale in a Whole Foods strip mall. If the owner of the frame shop was working, and I was expecting to pay $25 for a frame ....I wouldn't try to pay $24 because the owner was handling the point of sale.

I will admit to sort of discriminating in that my usual lady at this place - I give her 23-25%. The owner I gave 20%.

To each his own of course.

 

[CaliKid]

I think the "no tipping the owner" is a way for cheapskates to justify not tipping. I suppose if it's someone that not everybody tips (i.e. a plumber) maybe you don't tip the owner but I would tip the worker. However, in a restaurant setting you tip.

The credit card fee seems high and they should of course disclose ahead of time. I would prefer restaurants raise their prices and not tell me they are charging me a fee. Feels nickel and dimey and I dislike that.

 

[RetiredAndLovingIt]

Porky closed down the last tips discussion pretty darn quickly, I wonder how long this one will stay open.

 

[ivinsfan]

I think the "no tipping the owner" is a way for cheapskates to justify not tipping. I suppose if it's someone that not everybody tips (i.e. a plumber) maybe you don't tip the owner but I would tip the worker. However, in a restaurant setting you tip.

The credit card fee seems high and they should of course disclose ahead of time. I would prefer restaurants raise their prices and not tell me they are charging me a fee. Feels nickel and dimey and I dislike that.

I've seen more of the CC using fee in smaller Mom and Pop places. I've seen it listed as a % of your bill and as a flat fee. I thought it was the law that you needed to disclose this to the customer before hand. At counter type places they usually have it right by the register. So far I haven't been to a sit down menu type place that does this.

 

[ShokWaveRider]

To answer the OP's question, one should tip whoever is serving you, regardless of who it is, just tip based on the quality of service not the obligation to do so.

 

[latexman]

So I have question, how many servers actually only make 2.13 an hour.? I always see this argument trotted out and have no idea how many people it actually applies to. I'm genuinely curious at this. Maybe CA knows the answer since he knows 2.13 number..

Here's a summary from https://www.minimum-wage.org/tipped :

Tipped employees, such as waitresses and bartenders, may sometimes be paid a cash wage that is lower than the prevailing minimum wage through a system known as a tip credit.

In states that allow a tip credit, a certain amount of received tips per hour may be credited against the minimum wage by an employer, although the tipped employee must receive at least the minimum wage (with combined cash wage and tips) each hour. Minimum-Wage.org maintains a database of state tipped minimum wage laws, allowed tip credits, and minimum cash wages for all states.

Most of the States use tip credit.

 

[The Cosmic Avenger]

So I have question, how many servers actually only make 2.13 an hour.? I always see this argument trotted out and have no idea how many people it actually applies to. I'm genuinely curious at this. Maybe CA knows the answer since he knows 2.13 number..

Sorry, it's been decades since I actually waited tables, but the reason a lot of no-tip experiments fail is because customers think in terms of menu prices, which can be kept lower by the restaurant only paying part of the wait staff's wages, and expecting customers to make up the rest, which is basically how the current system works.

This basically makes it a race to the bottom, where those who try to raise prices to compensate for making tips only for exceptional service lose business based on the perception that they're charging more, even if it works out the same as tipping normally. This is why the tipped minimum wage needs to be repealed, especially since research has shown that tips vary greatly not just based on the quality of service, but also on demographics (gender, race, etc.).

But my educated guess is that most wait staff get paid minimum wage except in higher end restaurants where more skill and/or experience is required to keep service standards up. It's hard to say, though, as many states have their own tipped minimum wages that are higher than $2.13 but lower than their regular minimum wage.

 

[Montecfo]

Here's a summary from https://www.minimum-wage.org/tipped :

Most of the States use tip credit.

Yes. And the people who think tipped employees are "underpaid" must not realize this.

 

[ivinsfan]

Here's a summary from https://www.minimum-wage.org/tipped :



Most of the States use tip credit.

So waitstaff doesn't make 9K a year, they make minimum wage as a floor?


The term tip credit leads me to believe the owners can write off any money they paid staff as a top off. So the taxpayers make up the difference. This would make the US more civilized I guess.



So back to the question. When tipping are we tipping for good service or because the server is underpaid.

 

[The Cosmic Avenger]

Yes. And the people who think tipped employees are "underpaid" must not realize this.

And as I've said before, even in a relatively labor-friendly state, wait staff reporting that they have a shortfall that the employer needs to make up is a good way to find that you suddenly are not scheduled for any hours. And that still holds true for the waitstaff I've talked to along the Eastern Seaboard, it's probably worse in most other parts of the country except maybe California, which tends to have stronger labor regulations.

 

[Montecfo]

But my educated guess is that most wait staff get paid minimum wage except in higher end restaurants where more skill and/or experience is required to keep service standards up. It's hard to say, though, as many states have their own tipped minimum wages that are higher than $2.13 but lower than their regular minimum wage.

What is the basis for your conclusion?

Legally, in most states, minimum wage is in fact the minimum wait staff can make. So it forms a floor.

 

[Montecfo]

And as I've said before, even in a relatively labor-friendly state, wait staff reporting that they have a shortfall that the employer needs to make up is a good way to find that you suddenly are not scheduled for any hours. And that still holds true for the waitstaff I've talked to along the Eastern Seaboard, it's probably worse in most other parts of the country except maybe California, which tends to have stronger labor regulations.

Sure. But it is also a good indication you may not be cut out to be a waiter, and would best seek other employment. Or this particular restaurant is poorly managed or overstaffed, in which case you should also seek other employment.

Should the restaurant be forced to schedule wait staff who are not serving customers well and not earning good tips, and pay them more than staff that are earning their tips?

Of course not. The situation is self-correcting.

 

[ivinsfan]

And as I've said before, even in a relatively labor-friendly state, wait staff reporting that they have a shortfall that the employer needs to make up is a good way to find that you suddenly are not scheduled for any hours. And that still holds true for the waitstaff I've talked to along the Eastern Seaboard, it's probably worse in most other parts of the country except maybe California, which tends to have stronger labor regulations.

Are you remembering the employed gets a tipping credit at tax time, would be able to write it off as wages. Say you have 10 staff and 9 don't hit the minimum number can't unschedule all of them.

 

[MichaelB]

Some numbers, from the BLS here and here For waiters and waitresses:

The mean hourly wage is $13.95
The median hourly wage is $12.50
The median yearly wage is $26000 and the 90th % is $45910

And yes, these numbers include gratuity.

This is about half the income of all employees in the US (here) One factor affecting this is most restaurant work is not full time / 40 hours per week

 

[GenXguy]

The tipped minimum wage has not been raised a single penny in 31 years. Just adjusting for inflation, the $2.13 it was last raised to in 1991 would be about $4.63 today, so the wage has lost over half its value due to inflation.

The minimum tipped wage in many states is higher than that, without counting tips.

If you don't want to tip stay home or do something else that doesn't involve tipping.

If you don't want to tip, stay home or buy from vending machines...and quit whining about tips.

I don't think we should be telling people to stay home just because they don't like the tipping model. I always tip, even for crappy service, when it comes to being waited on for meal. Also the pizza delivery and haircuts. I never considered leaving a tip in my hotel room for housekeeping, but then I rarely have stayed in them. It seems expected tipping is creeping into more and more things. Of course, they should always be optional rather than part of the check as a "gratuity" that was mentioned.

 

[RetiredAndLovingIt]

As of January 1, 2022, the current minimum wage in California is:

$14.00 for employers with 25 or fewer employees, or
$15.00 for employers with 26 or more employees.

Some cities and counties in California have a higher minimum wage. For example, in the City of Los Angeles as of July 1, 2022, the minimum wage is $16.04 per hour

I generally tip 15% for good service which I usually get when I'm at Dennys or any other diners where the waitress keeps my drink filled or checks in with me every so often. I don't feel obligated to tip when picking up an order I placed online or at the fast food drive thru window. I sometimes tip a buck when picking up my $6 breakfast at a small diner drive thru window if I'm a regular but I don't feel obligated.. I would tip the owner as well if I knew them, that would not make any difference.

Bottom line good service = nice tip, no or bad service = no tip.

Being brought up in another country, I understand exactly what Shokwave is saying. Tipping in the US is way out of control and is now expected rather than appreciated.

 

[Midpack]

I don't think we should be telling people to stay home just because they don't like the tipping model. I always tip, even for crappy service, when it comes to being waited on for meal. Also the pizza delivery and haircuts. I never considered leaving a tip in my hotel room for housekeeping, but then I rarely have stayed in them. It seems expected tipping is creeping into more and more things. Of course, they should always be optional rather than part of the check as a "gratuity" that was mentioned.

Servers rely on tips for most of their income, that’s how restaurants work in the US except for a few who have adopted no tip policies. So if you’re not planning to tip, you have no business in a restaurant - period.

Conflating restaurant tipping with other services that have more recently begun to promote tipping is a misleading false equivalent. Servers are paid a much lower hourly base rate under the Dept of Labor Minimum Wages for Tipped Employees https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/state/minimum-wage/tipped.

 

[Midpack]

A view many servers share…

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/restaurant-tipping-vs-higher-wage_b_5377166

Tipping is a privilege.

There you are, sitting in a booth at the restaurant. You are full, ready to pay your tab, and you feel... well, how do you feel?

I probably don't have to convince you that the service you receive impacts your experience. You probably have left a restaurant thinking something like, "My service was horrible!" for a multitude of reasons. Hopefully though, you have left thinking something like, "My server rocked. She really made my experience great! I'll be back."

But now the question is, what do you leave for a tip!?

As a general rule, poor service receives a 15 percent tip or lower, adequate service receives a 15 percent tip, great service receives 18 percent to 20 percent or higher. But remember, when you go out to eat, you are an employer. You can choose to be nice, fair, generous, rude, demanding or even choose not to pay at all.

This tipping structure has been around since the restaurant model began.

But recently a new way of thinking has evolved which takes a very passive stand. It goes something like, "It's not up to me to pay the server, it's up to the owner!"

I challenge your thinking with a friendly reminder. Every transaction you make throughout your day pays someone's salary. Grocery store employees, bank tellers, soldiers, road maintenance crews, etc. Just because you don't sign a line that asks you what you believe they should earn, doesn't mean you're not paying it.

"I demand this privilege be taken away!"

Are you sure?

There is a growing campaign to change the tip system from, "the customer chooses," over to, "the owner chooses."

What would that do? Instead of you choosing to tip $4 on that $20 steak (when it's wrapped in great service) your steak will be $24. How convenient!

In exchange for this non-negotiable gratuity you'll receive, um, well, a "pass" on making any decisions at the end of the meal.

"Whew! If there's one thing that irritates me it's deciding how to spend my own money!"

 

[ivinsfan]

Midpack I clicked on your link to verify what I excpected, the article is from 2014. Why did I suspect that because pretty much no one I know thinks 15% is acceptable the low bar is 20% and higher for great service. So the meals have gone up in price. A soft drink costs 3 bucks, and at the same time the % considered acceptable has been creeping higher as well.



This is just an observance and not a complaint of any kind, but from the point of the consumer the tips get higher...

 

[ShokWaveRider]

Thinking about all the comments and opinions here including my own. Would it not be better if Tips were MANDATORY. There would be no arguing then. There could be a scale say starting at 10% and going up to say 25%. If you wanted to give your favorite chicki or stud more, you could do so in cash or as an extra. If an establishment kept getting 10% tips one could argue that they need to step up their service quality.

 

[Midpack]

Midpack I clicked on your link to verify what I excpected, the article is from 2014. Why did I suspect that because pretty much no one I know thinks 15% is acceptable the low bar is 20% and higher for great service. So the meals have gone up in price. A soft drink costs 3 bucks, and at the same time the % considered acceptable has been creeping higher as well.

This is just an observance and not a complaint of any kind, but from the point of the consumer the tips get higher...

What makes you think tipping sentiments have changed other than % norms? Restaurants that adopt no tip higher wage, higher price policies continue to fail - based on most consumer reactions! Restaurant dining won’t get less expensive either way, so it comes down to do you want to pay a flat price for service (crappy or good), of pay a similar amount on average based on your experience each time?

What’s not more expensive? Why single out restaurants by threatening servers wages?

 

[ivinsfan]

What makes you think tipping sentiments have changed other than % norms? Restaurants that adopt no tip higher wage, higher price policies continue to fail - based on consumer reactions! Restaurant dining won’t get less expensive either way, so it comes down to do you want to pay a flat price for service regardless, of pay a similar amount on average based on your experience each time?

What’s not more expensive? Why single out restaurants by threatening servers wages?

Threatening their wages?? Where did that come from? My comment was the % of tip consider "normal" has risen...ie prices on a meal rise, the total bill rises, so by default the tips rises. In additional to that a bigger % of tip is considered normal. I clearly said it was an observance on my part. At any rate tell me how that scenario results in servers getting their wages threatened.

 

[Midpack]

Threatening their wages?? Where did that come from? My comment was the % of tip consider "normal" has risen...ie prices on a meal rise, the total bill rises, so by default the tips rises. In additional to that a bigger % of tip is considered normal. I clearly said it was an observance on my part. At any rate tell me how that scenario results in servers getting their wages threatened.

Many here constantly object to being asked to tip servers for a variety of reasons, if that’s not you, apologies. I was a server a long time ago, and tips rocked even back when 15% was a great tip. Most servers don’t object to tipping, it’s some consumers and academics.

You want to pay less. No tip policies won’t do that. Again, what hasn’t gotten more expensive- it’s not just restaurant servers.