Traffic ticket - worth fighting?

[robnplunder]

If everyone who committed such a violation got a ticket, there wouldn't be any deficits in the cities' coffers. You were obviously singled out (maybe it was deserved on the basis of traffic or some other factor.) Still I would consider going to court to fight it if you really believe what you did caused NO DANGER at all. I would ask the officer what it was that made him stop you. Does he always stop EVERYONE who does this? (If he says "yes", even the judge will know he is not truthful.) If he says "no" ask him why your violation was so "egregious" that he chose to exercise his discretion and "get" you. Ask if he is under pressure to write more fineable tickets (the judge may will know if this is the case). If you know a lawyer (friend), pick his brain. There are whole books on beating tickets. Check your library or NOLO, etc. to find them.

Just my $.02 worth, but, IMHO, this is EXACTLY the kind of "infraction" which needs to be taken to court. Even if you technically violated the "law", you may be able to get the judge to throw it out (hey, he drives too!) There is also a limited chance (1 in 20?, 1 in 10) that the officer will not show up. In most cases, the judge will throw it out on the spot if that happens.

Overall, I'm taking a SWAG that you DO have a chance to beat this.

Finally, even if you lose, you have sent a message to the judge, the officer, the "system", etc., that some folks will fight. If enough folks do so, the capricious nature of "civil" crime enforcement may become a little less so.

I support "law and order", but sometimes, it can become just "someone was having a bad day and you are it." Good luck. As always, YMMV.

I respectfully disagree. Law is pretty clear, he violated it, and the system requires he pays appropriate fine. He needs to have something better than "did-my-action-cause-danger?" defense. And as a tax payer, I'd hate to see our court mired in dealing with such clear cut cases. The officer did his job. The citizen must do his part. Pay the fine and move on.

When I initially read only the subject line, I thought the OP was erroneously cited and want to challenge the system for justice. Instead, he is just looking to avoid paying fine on something he did wrong (by law). The word "integrity" comes to my mind ....

 

[arky]

I respectfully disagree. Law is pretty clear, he violated it, and the system requires he pays appropriate fine. He needs to have something better than "did-my-action-cause-danger?" defense. And as a tax payers, I'd hate to see our court mired in dealing with such clear cut cases. The officer did his job. The citizen must do his part. Pay the fine and move on.

When I initially read only the subject line, I thought the OP was erroneously cited and want to challenge the system for justice. Instead, he is just looking to avoid paying fine on something he did wrong (by law). The word "integrity" comes to my mind ....

It's nice to know there is a driver out there who has never broken a traffic law without getting a ticket ! How would you feel if an officer followed you around and wrote you ticket every time you "did wrong (by law)".

 

[robnplunder]

It's nice to know there is a driver out there who has never broken a traffic law without getting a ticket ! How would you feel if an officer followed you around and wrote you ticket every time you "did wrong (by law)".

I paid the ticket, and went to school to erase the record. Sure, I felt bad about it. But trying to get away from paying for it when it is clearly my fault? That's not me. If that's you, then, more power to you.

 

[Koolau]

I respectfully disagree. Law is pretty clear, he violated it, and the system requires he pays appropriate fine. He needs to have something better than "did-my-action-cause-danger?" defense. And as a tax payers, I'd hate to see our court mired in dealing with such clear cut cases. The officer did his job. The citizen must do his part. Pay the fine and move on.

When I initially read only the subject line, I thought the OP was erroneously cited and want to challenge the system for justice. Instead, he is just looking to avoid paying fine on something he did wrong (by law). The word "integrity" comes to my mind ....

Okay, we can agree to disagree, then. Let me explain a bit where I'm coming from. I have two (former) LEO friends (still friends, just no longer LEOs). They have both said at one time or another and in different ways "Give me six blocks and I can find a reason to stop anyone." THEIR point was that it was pretty easy to use traffic laws to stop and check someone out. It could be as simple as a light out (one of more than one) on your license plate for instance.) MY point is that it would be difficult to drive more than a few miles without technically violating some traffic law (do you always make a car-bobbing dead stop at every stop sign - it's the law, you know.) Most LEOs don't stop everyone every time for a 2 mph roll through a stop sign. One of my LEO friends says, "If I see both sides of your face from behind at a stop sign, I won't stop you - unless I want to."

So, the traffic laws are much more often ignored by LEOs than one might think. Blatant violations - especially those indicating aggression - will usually bring swift response from LEOs.

So (if you believe me) it's just as likely the LEO who stopped OP was looking for something else, was having an off day, was under pressure to write tickets, etc. as that OP actually did something dangerous. Now, if everyone were stopped every time for every infraction seen by a LEO, my argument would fall apart. I don't think anyone here would suggest such a situation.

Still, you are correct that the law is the law. My suggestion is that we have judges to sort this stuff out. Let them earn their money. YMMV, and with all respect, ko'olau.

 

[robnplunder]

Ko'olau - I heard you. Unfortunately, the officer is not on this forum to defend his action .

Have you been to a traffic court lately in CA? Jam packed. I don't know about it in OP's state. If it is anything like where I live, paying the fine is NOT worth spending a day in court.

 

[clifp]

Okay, yet another opinion.

Traffic courts are probably highly local, procedures vary widely so what works in one jurisdiction may be irrelevant in another.

That said, if you're still working and have to take time off I'd just pay it. If you're retired and feel like taking the time, show up for court. First thing is to determine if the officer who wrote the ticket is present. If not, it's a slam dunk to plead not guilty. No witness, no evidence, the judge will almost certainly dismiss it rather than continue it for yet a third time. That works in MD, perhaps not in GA.

Otherwise show up with the photos (enlarged to at least 8x10 please) showing the lines were faded and not clearly visible and plead not guilty. The judge may or may not buy that.

And it's worth a shot to ask to have a talk with the state's attorney and ask about pleading to a lesser offense. Where I worked they were extremely overworked people and didn't have time for that but GA may be a bit more laid-back.

The only times I've been tempted to fight a ticket is when I felt there were extenuating circumstance like it appears in this case. I agree with Walt if you are retired, by all means fight it. If you are working probably not worth it.

 

[clifp]

Ko'olau - I heard you. Unfortunately, the officer is not on this forum to defend his action .

Have you been to a traffic court lately in CA? Jam packed. I don't know about it in OP's state. If it is anything like where I live, paying the fine is worth spending a day in court.

True but it is worth noting that both Walt and Utrecht are retired LEOs.

 

[robnplunder]

True but it is worth noting that both Walt and Utrecht are retired LEOs.

...

I meant to say "NOT worth" and since corrected it. I don't know about others but I am not the one who want/can spend a day in court to avoid $140 fine, retired or not.

 

[RetireAge50]

I would pay the ticket unless you believe for real it was not valid.

 

[splitwdw]

I'd be interested in some opinions on what to do about a traffic citation I received recently. It was for "driving through a no-passing zone to get to left turn lane"... a very minor offense (IMHO). The fine is $140, which seems stratospheric for this kind of minor infraction. I went to traffic court yesterday and got an automatic continuance of my case for another 5 weeks. Now I need to figure out what to do when I go back, because I'll have to either plead guilty and pay the fine, plead "nolo" and pay the fine, or plead not guilty and go back to court later for a bench trial.

What would you do in my situation? I am tempted at this point to just plead "nolo" and pay the exorbitant fine, especially because I understand that by pleading "nolo", the state of Georgia will not assign any points to my driving record (I currently have 0 points). Apparently you can plead "nolo" once every five years for minor violations like this and not receive points..........
Appreciate any and all opinions!

It seems like you've spent a lot of time on this. You went back to the intersection to take pictures. You went to court already and are going back again in 5 weeks. I'm assuming from the statement "Apparently you can plead "nolo" once every five years" you looked this up or have talked this over with someone. You're spending a lot of time trying to beat a ticket for doing something wrong. Doesn't matter if it's a minor infraction. Doesn't matter that other people get away with it. You got caught. Pay the fine.

 

[pb4uski]

.....So (if you believe me) it's just as likely the LEO who stopped OP was looking for something else, was having an off day, was under pressure to write tickets, etc. as that OP actually did something dangerous.. ...

You seem to be confusing violation with enforcement.

Take a rolling stop violation. If you go to court and claim that you should get off because others do it, you'll lose. The question before the court is whether you did in in that particular instance.

Similarly, if you go to court and claim you should get off because the officer singled you out and have ignored similar violations by others, you'll lose (unless you can somehow prove discrimination which is a very high bar).

The only really relevant thing is whether or not in that particular instance you came to a full and complete stop or not. Anything beyond that is simply negotiation, which is common in the interest of expediency.

You seem to be sitting on a very high horse.

 

[heeyy_joe]

Cost of citation seems high. But I would pay the fine and chalk it up to the law of averages since no other collateral financial damage is involved. If you have done this more than once ('fess-up!) you should divide the $140 by all the times you did it. So, if you did it nine more times without having been caught the true cost is only $14 per event.

If you are retired, what's your hurry anyway?

 

[Texas Proud]

I can vouch that this is true. Also, depending on the cop, there's a better than avg chance he wont show up which means the ticket has to be dismissed.

Not here... the prosecution can ask for a delay just like OP did....

 

[frank]

my granddaughter got a speeding ticket a while back for 10 over the speed limit and the fine was 200. it said on the ticket the actual fine was 100. and the court costs were 40. there were also 60. in other fees. I called the sheriff's office and ask what the other fees were. He told me it was the judge's retirement fund. whether he was pulling my leg or it was true I don't know, but it show's that law enforcement looks at the average person as an idiot when it comes to traffic enforcement.

 

[Texas Proud]

I read a lot of people are 'letter of the law' here... I think there is a lot of grey....



Let's say that he was two cars back and just eased into the lane at a slow speed... only two tires 'over the line'.... is he guilty?? I do this all the time....


Now, suppose that traffic is backed up 5 lights deep... and the center turn lane is clear (turn lane for both directions).... if he drives down that long line so he can turn without waiting for 5 lights.... is he guilty



OR, another one that I do.... the speed limit is high.... the turn lane is short... I will get over before the 'no passing' paint and slow down in the turn lane.... it makes it safer to not slow down all the other cars... still, this is guilty

 

[Fermion]

I think I have a fairly good case because of how the relevant section of Georgia

I see your problem right there. Georgia.

I was visiting my parents in Georgia and got pulled over for doing 45 in a 35 on a state hwy with a speed limit of 55. There was a *town* that I didn't see that consisted of one closed gas station with broken windows, no other houses or businesses. I did miss the drop from 55 to 35, I had only been going 45 instead of 55 because it was a gorgeous 75 degree sunny day in March and I was just enjoying the drive. $190 ticket.

South Georgia has areas that are a bit poor and are desperate for revenue.

 

[Walt34]

There was a *town* that I didn't see that consisted of one closed gas station with broken windows, no other houses or businesses. I did miss the drop from 55 to 35, I had only been going 45 instead of 55 because it was a gorgeous 75 degree sunny day in March and I was just enjoying the drive. $190 ticket.

South Georgia has areas that are a bit poor and are desperate for revenue.

That's the kind of thing - using traffic violations as a "revenue enhancement" - that infuriates people so much. In MD, the fines didn't reach near that level until speeds were 30 mph over the limit and there were two or three reasonable "steps" as the speed over the limit increased, from $30, to $50, and I think $70 at the time. Fines are set by the state.

Except for perhaps $5 of it for the court system for admin costs, all the money went to the state treasury so there was no financial incentive for any jurisdiction to increase the number of tickets.

A bit more reasonable approach, I think.

 

[utrecht]

Not here... the prosecution can ask for a delay just like OP did....

Let me rephrase that. If the cop doesn't show up, the ticket will normally be dismissed in any large jurisdiction, but doesn't have to be. The courts are overwhelmed and looking to clear up their dockets. Municipal prosecutors rarely ask to reset a hearing for a ticket. They want it over and done with as quick as possible.

 

[utrecht]

True but it is worth noting that both Walt and Utrecht are retired LEOs.

I have 9 months left before retirement, but thanks for that. It looks really good when I see it in writing.

 

[MRG]

Okay, we can agree to disagree, then. Let me explain a bit where I'm coming from. I have two (former) LEO friends (still friends, just no longer LEOs). They have both said at one time or another and in different ways "Give me six blocks and I can find a reason to stop anyone." THEIR point was that it was pretty easy to use traffic laws to stop and check someone out. It could be as simple as a light out (one of more than one) on your license plate for instance.) MY point is that it would be difficult to drive more than a few miles without technically violating some traffic law (do you always make a car-bobbing dead stop at every stop sign - it's the law, you know.) Most LEOs don't stop everyone every time for a 2 mph roll through a stop sign. One of my LEO friends says, "If I see both sides of your face from behind at a stop sign, I won't stop you - unless I want to."

So, the traffic laws are much more often ignored by LEOs than one might think. Blatant violations - especially those indicating aggression - will usually bring swift response from LEOs.

So (if you believe me) it's just as likely the LEO who stopped OP was looking for something else, was having an off day, was under pressure to write tickets, etc. as that OP actually did something dangerous. Now, if everyone were stopped every time for every infraction seen by a LEO, my argument would fall apart. I don't think anyone here would suggest such a situation.

Still, you are correct that the law is the law. My suggestion is that we have judges to sort this stuff out. Let them earn their money. YMMV, and with all respect, ko'olau.

Great point, years ago I was stupid, in a big hurry, speeding, weaved through traffic passed a LEO in my haste.

That officer was really ticked off(furious), said I was speeding(I knew I was), but she couldn't prove it. She offered to write me up for careless and inprudent, but knew that might get thrown out.

Instead she asked me where I was going, my response 'to work 12 miles away'. She decided to follow me, observing my driving those 12 miles, with the promise she would write me up for any violation. Well we both won, she didn't write me up, but made her point on how many traffic laws we routinely break.

That LEO changed my driving habits. Have I been ticketed since then, yes, but not for doing stupid stuff that could have turned out bad.
MRG

 

[Texas Proud]

Let me rephrase that. If the cop doesn't show up, the ticket will normally be dismissed in any large jurisdiction, but doesn't have to be. The courts are overwhelmed and looking to clear up their dockets. Municipal prosecutors rarely ask to reset a hearing for a ticket. They want it over and done with as quick as possible.

My sons ticket was reset 4 times... but it was not a driving violation.... but a fight at school.... I also thought that they would dismiss at some point in time...

 

[scrabbler1]

Let me rephrase that. If the cop doesn't show up, the ticket will normally be dismissed in any large jurisdiction, but doesn't have to be. The courts are overwhelmed and looking to clear up their dockets. Municipal prosecutors rarely ask to reset a hearing for a ticket. They want it over and done with as quick as possible.

On the last ticket I got back in 1986, I pled not guilty and took a day off work and showed up at court only to be told without any reason, "We'll mail you another court date." So I took the whole day off from work, parked nearly a mile from the courthouse, walked 10-15 minutes in the heavy rain on a 40-degree December morning, just to be told by a clerk outside the courtroom, "Come back another day." I was pretty pissed. I mean, if the cop wasn't present, shouldn't my case have been dismissed?

At least when I had to postpone the court date the following year, I had a good reason (I was going to be on jury duty, pretty good excuse LOL!) and let them know a week ahead, when I was already in the courthouse area.

 

[rb35]

We've actually had success in GA just talking to the prosecutor and saying hey, what sort of plea bargain could you do.

Got a reduced fine and the violation downgraded to something that wouldn't affect insurance that way. Prosecutors can be pretty cool. Trying to fight to prove you're innocent probably is tougher and gets you less leniency.

 

[splitwdw]

I read a lot of people are 'letter of the law' here... I think there is a lot of grey....
Let's say that he was two cars back and just eased into the lane at a slow speed... only two tires 'over the line'.... is he guilty?? I do this all the time...."
Now, suppose that traffic is backed up 5 lights deep... and the center turn lane is clear (turn lane for both directions).... if he drives down that long line so he can turn without waiting for 5 lights.... is he guilty
OR, another one that I do.... the speed limit is high.... the turn lane is short... I will get over before the 'no passing' paint and slow down in the turn lane.... it makes it safer to not slow down all the other cars... still, this is guilty

OP isn't saying "what if", he/she got caught and ticketed. Many people do things that are illegal. Using a cell phone to make calls or texts while driving, drinking alcohol then driving, throwing snow out in the street (for city dwellers), going through red traffic lights. If they get caught they'll get a ticket. Side note, wish they'd throw away the key on drunk drivers.
Now, suppose, I take my corvette out on the interstate and go "fast" if there's no traffic around. I'm guilty but not if you don't catch me.

 

[Senator]

Some places in MN let you pay the fine, and if you do not get another in a year, it drops off your record.

What you are actually paying is a fee to put the ticket 'on ice', and you are not really guilty.

Try that.