UPS drivers making $170,000 a year?

[Andre1969]

I agree, seems high.
Then I took a second and thought about it - what goes into fringe rates at UPS. Who knows? On 100k salary, for example

7,650 = 7.65% FICA paid by UPS - maybe this is not allocated to fringe
7,700 = 4 weeks holiday pay (100/52 x 4)
5,000 = 13 holidays (100/52/5 x 13)
1,900 = 5 sick/personal days (100/52/5 x 5)
23,000 = pension contribution (from UPS website).
7,350 = all that's left for health insurance. (from website: "Both full- and part-time* Teamster-represented employees are offered healthcare benefits with no premiums and very low or no co-insurance and co-pays.")

I always thought that counting vacation time and paid holidays into the mix to calculate your total compensation package was sort of "double billing."

If my salary is $100K per year, but I get 13 federal holidays plus 20 days of vacation, I'm still only seeing $100K per year. Not $100K per year, with pay from the 13 holidays and 20 vacation days added on top of that. But, by the company's accounting, my benefit would be roughly $112,692 (the $100K salary, and the 33 extra holiday/vacation days comes out to around $12,692).

Basically, holiday or vacation pay means that you didn't have to work that day, but you still got paid for it. It doesn't inflate your compensation, but rather reduces the amount of hours you have to work to get your salary. So it shouldn't mean that the value of it gets added on top of your salary, as part of your total compensation.

The only time vacation pay really gives you extra value, is if your company lets you cash it out, instead of using it. Or when you quit, and any remaining balance gets paid out to you.

 

[JoeWras]

I have no problem with what these drivers make.

I have a problem with new hires in my profession (SW engineer) demanding the same thing right out of college. Bunch of whiners.

 

[aaronc879]

I have no problem with what these drivers make.

I have a problem with new hires in my profession (SW engineer) demanding the same thing right out of college. Bunch of whiners.

I think after a probation period everyone doing the same job in the same company should get the same pay. Seniority might get you a better work assignment or first choice of vacation days but it shouldn't get you more pay if the other people are fully trained too and doing the same work, IMO.

 

[Car-Guy]

In my neighborhood I'm seeing way fewer brown trucks than a few years ago, a few more FedEx trucks, and a lot more Amazon trucks (and cars).

It's about 70% FedEx trucks and 30% UPS trucks around here. Zero Amazon. I've actually seen a few more shipping VIA USPS recently but that may just be an anomaly.

 

[Fermion]

We have been ordering random bits from places like Home Depot during our new house build. They have free shipping even on small orders like a box of $8 trim screws (which are $12 locally at the ACE). They ship these UPS in a giant box with lots of those big plastic bag bubbles.

Somebody has to be losing money somewhere.

 

[Music Lover]

Maybe for a period of time. But the body can only take so much wear and tear over time. For example, many football players who are healthier than the average person when in their 20s and 30s end up in worse health than average when they are in their 50s and beyond. Constant physical wear and tear can add up.

From the job requirements on their website, you have to have the ability to lift as much as 70 lbs at one time (which will occur throughout the day), and pass a drug test. That eliminates a lot of folks.

You can't compare a delivery person to a football player that routinely gets hit by 250 pound guys running at full speed.

IMO, I could be wrong but I don't see how delivery drivers can put excess wear and tear on their bodies. When you factor in that a good part of the day is driving they're probably walking well under 10 miles a day, and it's in short segments.

 

[Texas Proud]

I agree, seems high.
Then I took a second and thought about it - what goes into fringe rates at UPS. Who knows? On 100k salary, for example

7,650 = 7.65% FICA paid by UPS - maybe this is not allocated to fringe
7,700 = 4 weeks holiday pay (100/52 x 4)
5,000 = 13 holidays (100/52/5 x 13)
1,900 = 5 sick/personal days (100/52/5 x 5)
23,000 = pension contribution (from UPS website).
7,350 = all that's left for health insurance. (from website: "Both full- and part-time* Teamster-represented employees are offered healthcare benefits with no premiums and very low or no co-insurance and co-pays.")

Now 52.6% seems low.

When I was growing up, it was always a great job and very difficult to get. Seems that it still is if you need to 'pay your dues' on the docks for 8 years to get in the driver's seat. Hard job? You bet. Desirable job? 100%

I always thought that counting vacation time and paid holidays into the mix to calculate your total compensation package was sort of "double billing."

If my salary is $100K per year, but I get 13 federal holidays plus 20 days of vacation, I'm still only seeing $100K per year. Not $100K per year, with pay from the 13 holidays and 20 vacation days added on top of that. But, by the company's accounting, my benefit would be roughly $112,692 (the $100K salary, and the 33 extra holiday/vacation days comes out to around $12,692).

Basically, holiday or vacation pay means that you didn't have to work that day, but you still got paid for it. It doesn't inflate your compensation, but rather reduces the amount of hours you have to work to get your salary. So it shouldn't mean that the value of it gets added on top of your salary, as part of your total compensation.

The only time vacation pay really gives you extra value, is if your company lets you cash it out, instead of using it. Or when you quit, and any remaining balance gets paid out to you.

It is double counting... the vacation, sick and holidays are in base salary and not considered benefits... well, at least for budgeting...


FICA share is part of benefits as it is not part of base pay...


Kinda shocked at the pension amount... seems quite high, but if you got it from their website... think about that ... $23K for 30 years is almost $700K without any earnings.. then again the SS is over $15K combined...

 

[Music Lover]

I think they have to be able to lift 70 lbs? That's gotta do a lot of wreckage on a body day after day, year after year, every day. No rest/recover like those who lift weights to work out.

How often do they lift 70 pounds? It's not every load all day long, it might only be once or twice per day, if at all. And every heavy load that I've had delivered the driver used a hand cart.

That being said, I don't even consider 70 pounds to be heavy. Any fit male can handle that with ease, even well into their 60's.

 

[Fermion]

How often do they lift 70 pounds? It's not every load all day long, it might only be once or twice per day, if at all. And every heavy load that I've had delivered the driver used a hand cart.

That being said, I don't even consider 70 pounds to be heavy. Any fit male can handle that with ease, even well into their 60's.

Agree. I carried 50 pound bundles of shingles from our truck up 3 stories to our roof, also have been carrying 45 pound sheets of 4x8 drywall up to our second floor and I am 53 and not in top shape. I don't do it every day (although damn it sure feels like I have been).

 

[aaronc879]

You can't compare a delivery person to a football player that routinely gets hit by 250 pound guys running at full speed.

IMO, I could be wrong but I don't see how delivery drivers can put excess wear and tear on their bodies. When you factor in that a good part of the day is driving they're probably walking well under 10 miles a day, and it's in short segments.

A football player plays full contact for around 3 hours a week 20 weeks a year while a UPS driver does around 50 hours a week 46-50 weeks a year. Other than the initial drive to their route area and back at the end of the route they don't drive very far between deliveries. They get in and out of a high van a couple hundred times a day. You must not of ever had to work for a living if you don't realize how damaging a job like a UPS driver is on the body.

 

[Aerides]

That being said, I don't even consider 70 pounds to be heavy. Any fit male can handle that with ease, even well into their 60's.

Sure. Until they can't. Until they are rushed and twinge something. Until they had to do another lift 2 hours later, and then another.

Female, but I can lift 70lbs quite easily, to my waist (deadlift). But, it's not a box, it's bar balanced specifically for lifting, with good center of gravity. I know where to to my feet, and how to put it back down safely. And no one is saying do it now and do it faster.

You know I'm sure there's a big difference in what one can lift or push or press at the gym, and carry in real life, without being properly warmed up, or when tired, at the end of a long day.

The point of all this is, the physical aspect of a UPS job should give some folks pause before they herald these paychecks as something wonderful for easy work.

 

[Music Lover]

A football player plays full contact for around 3 hours a week 20 weeks a year while a UPS driver does around 50 hours a week 46-50 weeks a year. Other than the initial drive to their route area and back at the end of the route they don't drive very far between deliveries. They get in and out of a high van a couple hundred times a day. You must not of ever had to work for a living if you don't realize how damaging a job like a UPS driver is on the body.

I have done hard physical labour. I've shingled houses including carrying 40 bundles of shingles up a 2-storey ladder, I've shoveled gravel for 8 hours at a time, etc.

I'd rather deliver 10,000 packages than get hit just one time on the football field.

 

[skyking1]

You can't compare a delivery person to a football player that routinely gets hit by 250 pound guys running at full speed.

IMO, I could be wrong but I don't see how delivery drivers can put excess wear and tear on their bodies. When you factor in that a good part of the day is driving they're probably walking well under 10 miles a day, and it's in short segments.

have you injured yourself on the job?
I have, and it is not what you think happens. You turn wrong, step down wrong one time out of the 70 trips in and out of the truck. Slip and fall on ice. Trip over most anything. Unless you have some years selling your body for money, don´t trivialize it.

 

[aaronc879]

Kinda shocked at the pension amount... seems quite high, but if you got it from their website... think about that ... $23K for 30 years is almost $700K without any earnings.. then again the SS is over $15K combined...

Almost all UPS drivers retire with a pension over $3K/mo and many have over $4K/mo. If they retire at 55 with a $36K/yr pension and live to 85 that is $1.08M in pension income. Many get more than that. I don't know if they are COLA'd but would guess they are.

 

[jollystomper]

You can't compare a delivery person to a football player that routinely gets hit by 250 pound guys running at full speed.

IMO, I could be wrong but I don't see how delivery drivers can put excess wear and tear on their bodies. When you factor in that a good part of the day is driving they're probably walking well under 10 miles a day, and it's in short segments.

A football player plays full contact for around 3 hours a week 20 weeks a year while a UPS driver does around 50 hours a week 46-50 weeks a year. Other than the initial drive to their route area and back at the end of the route they don't drive very far between deliveries. They get in and out of a high van a couple hundred times a day. You must not of ever had to work for a living if you don't realize how damaging a job like a UPS driver is on the body.

I agree with aaronc879 here. It may not be visible, but doing those things many hours a week over many years can take its toll.

The hand carts are likely for loads well over 70 pounds.

The point of all this is that it is a physically strenuous job, and I would not belittle that aspect of it.

 

[JoeWras]

Dad was a plumber and lifted items over 70lbs every day (toilets, bathtubs, radiators, ductile cast iron pipe and so on).

Result? 3 back operations, 3 hernia operations, 2 artificial hips, 2 artificial knees.

If you only "had a job once" that involved lifting for a summer, you don't know. This is lifelong. It adds up.

If you lifted once and are now sitting a keyboard typing as expert, you are not.

UPS drivers deserve what they got in this contract.

 

[Music Lover]

Dad was a plumber and lifted items over 70lbs every day (toilets, bathtubs, radiators, ductile cast iron pipe and so on).

Result? 3 back operations, 3 hernia operations, 2 artificial hips, 2 artificial knees.

If you only "had a job once" that involved lifting for a summer, you don't know. This is lifelong. It adds up.

If you lifted once and are now sitting a keyboard typing as expert, you are not.

UPS drivers deserve what they got in this contract.

I've been lifting heavy weights for 40+ years without a single injury and I also know several people in very physically demanding jobs, far more demanding than UPS driving. Try spending 40+ hours a week as a mover, for example.

I think that physical standards have become so low these days that some people just can't fathom what a normal amount of physical activity really is. If you're fit and healthy with some muscle mass, a delivery driver is an easy job.

 

[Mr._Graybeard]

Reading it more, you have to work in a warehouse for a number of years before getting a driver position. Still, it does sound like a viable path for someone coming out of high school. Start in the warehouse at age 18, maybe get a driver position at age 23? Work until age 45, retire with $2 million and a pension. No college needed.

I was going to mention this. I applied for a UPS job in college years ago, and the starting level was part-time warehouse. The pay wasn't bad for the day, IIRC, especially for a college kid, but no bennies. And I don't know if those warehouse jobs were part of the collective-bargaining unit.

I don't know if I've ever seen a UPS driver who looked under 30, but maybe the work ages them prematurely?

 

[EarlyandLate]

It is important to note that the $170,000 figure represents the entire value of the UPS package, including benefits and does not represent the base salary. Currently, UPS drivers make an average of around $95,000 per year with an additional $50,000 in benefits, according to the company.

Yes, this is the key. When I worked at the Megacorp, our projects were budgeted based on "fully burdened FTEs" (FTE= full time equivalent, otherwise known as a human being.) It was astounding what those tricky accountants included in "fully burdened". Not only did it include salary and all benefits, but also a certain square footage of office space with maintenance, depreciation, etc and other ridiculous stuff. A fully burdened FTE would cost a project slightly more than twice the person's salary.

 

[aaronc879]

I was going to mention this. I applied for a UPS job in college years ago, and the starting level was part-time warehouse. The pay wasn't bad for the day, IIRC, especially for a college kid, but no bennies. And I don't know if those warehouse jobs were part of the collective-bargaining unit.

I don't know if I've ever seen a UPS driver who looked under 30, but maybe the work ages them prematurely?

I don't recall seeing one that looks under 30 but I know a lot of them exist. UPS pays for college costs for PT workers so they get a lot of 18 or 19 year olds working the line in the warehouse for free college. Then after 4 year when they get their degree they realize they could make just as much if not more if they stay at UPS as a driver so there are people in their early 20's working as FT drivers. How long it takes to get FT varies by region and each individual terminal.

 

[Car-Guy]

Yes, this is the key. When I worked at the Megacorp, our projects were budgeted based on "fully burdened FTEs" (FTE= full time equivalent, otherwise known as a human being.) It was astounding what those tricky accountants included in "fully burdened". Not only did it include salary and all benefits, but also a certain square footage of office space with maintenance, depreciation, etc and other ridiculous stuff. A fully burdened FTE would cost a project slightly more than twice the person's salary.

Exactly the same language and logic used at my mega corp for project work/justification and accounting.

 

[Samething]

I have to wonder that even if some of them really do earn $170k/year (perhaps justifiable in places like NYC and parts of CA) how long can they earn that? I see those delivery guys jumping out of trucks and trotting, running, and sometimes sprinting, only occasionally walking, delivering those boxes. I seriously doubt anyone could keep that up for 20 years, let alone 30. It wouldn't surprise me to learn that a major percentage of them have replacement joints by they time they're 50.

I have 3 extended family members that are drivers for UPS. The oldest retired at 53 after a series of back surgeries. Another 47 is currently out on medical leave. He had neck surgery a couple of weeks ago and is scheduled to have back surgery soon. The third is just turning 40 and is going to have a third shoulder surgery soon. It’s a brutal job. I don’t know how they do it in their trucks with no ac here in Florida where we are having daily feel like temperatures in the 105-110 range.

 

[aaronc879]

I have 3 extended family members that are drivers for UPS. The oldest retired at 53 after a series of back surgeries. Another 47 is currently out on medical leave. He had neck surgery a couple of weeks ago and is scheduled to have back surgery soon. The third is just turning 40 and is going to have a third shoulder surgery soon. It’s a brutal job. I don’t know how they do it in their trucks with no ac here in Florida where we are having daily feel like temperatures in the 105-110 range.

I was never in a union position for long but when I was I always suggested better working conditions rather than just focusing on getting more money. i don't care if the job pays $200K/yr it is not worth while if you are pushed too hard physically. UPS should reduce the workload on the drivers so they can work at a more reasonable pace. I'm sure they would save a fortune on Work Comp costs.

 

[aaronc879]

I have 3 extended family members that are drivers for UPS. The oldest retired at 53 after a series of back surgeries. Another 47 is currently out on medical leave. He had neck surgery a couple of weeks ago and is scheduled to have back surgery soon. The third is just turning 40 and is going to have a third shoulder surgery soon. It’s a brutal job. I don’t know how they do it in their trucks with no ac here in Florida where we are having daily feel like temperatures in the 105-110 range.

Do you have specific knowledge of what the metrics are for the drivers? Do they have to get a certain number of stops per hour or something like that? Can they get fired if they work at a more reasonable pace that is below what UPS expects?

 

[Stormy Kromer]

I don't know the facts, but I've heard it is easy to lose for a driver to lose his job if involved in an accident.

One time a few years ago a UPS truck went in the ditch into a snowbank. The farmer pulled him out very easily and the driver said "thank you for saving my job"