When the other set of in-laws ignore Virus Guidelines and Governor Stay At Home Order

[Chuckanut]

, "Well Pop is exercising his inalienable right to freedom from government oppression and freedom to travel and go where he wants"...that I just had to stay silent.

:

Crazymakers. These people are crazymakers. One characteristic of crazymakers is that they know all about their rights and nothing about the rights of others. They also know about the obligations of others but have no obligations themselves.

Crazymakers are best avoided.

 

[sheehs1]

Crazymakers. These people are crazymakers. One characteristic of crazymakers is that they know all about their rights and nothing about the rights of others. They also know about the obligations of others but have no obligations themselves.

Crazymakers are best avoided.

This is an important point Chuckanut. Many apparently are offended and taking the position their rights are being taken away or stepped on, rather than using their higher brain power to realize it's not just about them. How dare this virus force these restrictions on them! Even if they do realize it's not just about them, they continue to use that narrative to justify breaking laws and stay at home orders to do what they want placing anyone in their path at potential risk.

Thanks to all who have posted thus far. It doesn't sound like any have had situations where your core circles has been breached by others outside the circle. Or if someone asked to do so,, they abided by your answer without pushing the envelope further as in "they came anyway" and "they wanted us to visit anyway".

That said, it is up to each of us to enforce our boundaries. Trust me when I say my daughter did not have a good day and was in tears by the end of it and she and my son-in-law have been in discussions since.

To share a bit more insight, she married into a Navy family where all the males were or are in the Navy, have a bond, and operate in tandem so to speak. To not be part of things or join in is frowned upon (?) or in the very least, not accepted lightly. Hence the pressure to "come visit". Yes, I have examples of that but no need to detail them here. As her mother, I have tried to keep my opinions to myself, support both of them and develop my own close relationships with my son-in-law and each of my grandchildren.

 

[HarveyS]

Yes..they share the blame.

From where I sit they (DD and SIL) own the blame. Unless I missed something, it appears they gave in to pressure and loaded up the car and drove to the other house for the visit. Yes, the other grandparents created the opportunity and may have forced the issue, but DD and SIL ultimately took the action that is upsetting you.

Parents make decisions for their children that we don't always agree with. When the dust settles you might consider talking to DD and SIL together and expressing why you thought this put the GC in a dangerous spot. How perhaps the action could leave the older GC confused over rules and how they don't really count. Think, "why can't I have a playdate with Johnnie, we just went to Auntie Sue's house?". Good luck.

 

[target2019]

EastWestGal had it right. They did not come to my daughters house. They went to the other brothers house. Daughter, son-in-law and grandchildren went there to "visit" for 4 hours.

My apologies to all for interpreting the situation incorrectly.

Point of view I have now is that your child and son-in-law were compelled to go there, as staying away would have caused an immediate problem. They were placed in a no-win situation, but it probably was not the first time. This is really a shame. I'd try to defuse the ensuing anger, and support daughter's family. But it doesn't sound possible given the state of politics.

 

[Tiger8693]

I'm becoming concerned at the tone of your responses. In the past I've admired your well reasoned and usually well documented responses. Lately they seem to have a heavy component of emotional shoot from the hip. So who are you and what did you do to pb4uski?

Your response to pb4uski above not fair. Just because they have a different opinion? And the others on this thread that are stating others are crazymakers and risking the total population of the US (see how exaggeration works...). This is why this will be just as polarizing as politics and results in the protests, etc. I think caution is warranted, to slow things down, but if you think doing all of this will absolutely prevent you from ever getting this virus, I think you are kidding yourself. The idea is to slow things down to allow for the healthcare system to deal with it. Eventually, people will have to visit one another, or see one another at distances closer than 10 or 20 ft. As is fairly evident from other virus history, (cold, flu, etc) there is 99.9% chance there will NOT be a 100%, or even 75% effective vaccine. People can't stay locked up forever.

As the old joke guys, "we have already established what you are, now we are just haggling over the price".

 

[donheff]

These conflicts are bound to increase. Because the stakes are high they will undoubtedly cause major fissures in some families. All you can do is take steps for yourself that make sense to you and communicate that to those you love.

The grandparents here sound more ideological than logical. For me it would be an easy choice to bar them from my house and refuse the offer to visit them. But I can understand the doubts that may have led your daughter to cave. As things start to loosen up lots of more nuanced decisions will have to be made.

I have three grand-kids living four blocks away, ages 10, 8 and 7. And a pregnant daughter 5 miles away. They haven't been in our house or vice versus since social distancing began. The grand-kids have frequently visited on the sidewalk out front and DW and I have gone bike riding with them with a good degree of separation. The kids are very good at keeping a distance.

As our area slowly goes back to work we will have to decide how rigid we need to be about isolation. Do we have dinners together at separate tables in the back yard? Keep up more complete isolation for months or years? I intend to make my decisions based on the best evidence of risk I can gather. I will also respect my kids decisions and will not impose my thinking on them or let them impose theirs on me.

 

[youbet]

From where I sit they (DD and SIL) own the blame. Unless I missed something, it appears they gave in to pressure and loaded up the car and drove to the other house for the visit. Yes, the other grandparents created the opportunity and may have forced the issue, but DD and SIL ultimately took the action that is upsetting you.

+1

Yeah, this is a tough one. But, in the end, the responsibility for taking the kids for a four hour visit, which apparently included little effort to include only safe behaviors, sits in the lap of the parents. It would have been tough to say no and possibly would have ignited some family issues. That's what you have to do sometimes.

I totally agree with OP that the "other in-laws" should not have come for a visit which was not carefully restricted to safe behaviors. That put her DD and SIL in the position of having to make a tough decision. And confronted with that decision, they made the wrong decision IMHO.

 

[sheehs1]

From where I sit they (DD and SIL) own the blame. Unless I missed something, it appears they gave in to pressure and loaded up the car and drove to the other house for the visit. Yes, the other grandparents created the opportunity and may have forced the issue, but DD and SIL ultimately took the action that is upsetting you.

Parents make decisions for their children that we don't always agree with. When the dust settles you might consider talking to DD and SIL together and expressing why you thought this put the GC in a dangerous spot. How perhaps the action could leave the older GC confused over rules and how they don't really count. Think, "why can't I have a playdate with Johnnie, we just went to Auntie Sue's house?". Good luck.

Thank you for the "Good Luck". In my opinion, the other grandparents did more than create the opportunity and force the issue. As EastWestGal said, they broke many lawful "stay at home" orders crossing several states to get here. Unless those are actually being enforced, they apparently mean nothing...right?

I don't know why it was a surprise for me. They had done the same with other children a couple of weeks before. My initial question was not one out of anger or anything. I simply wanted to know if others here are or have been dealing with anything like this. It doesn't appear they are.

And while I can see this becoming more and more lax, it did surprise me since we are supposedly in peak weeks. Although our governor last week announced a commissioned study from the University of Virginia that indicates our peak being mid-August. So great...if other states do this...we will have competing modeling studies and will have to figure out which ones to believe.

For me it is one thing to do this during peak weeks and perhaps another to do it after peak has passed.

 

[sheehs1]

My apologies to all for interpreting the situation incorrectly.

Point of view I have now is that your child and son-in-law were compelled to go there, as staying away would have caused an immediate problem. They were placed in a no-win situation, but it probably was not the first time. This is really a shame. I'd try to defuse the ensuing anger, and support daughter's family. But it doesn't sound possible given the state of politics.

target2019. Exactly. Not going there would have perhaps resulted in it's own set of issues. They did feel they were in a no-win, particularly when said Brother and other daughter-in-law did not share the same level of concern. And other daughter-in law is a trained nurse! Not working at the moment, hasn't in years with the birth of 4 children 8 years but still..a trained nurse.

 

[Teacher Terry]

If I had grandchildren we would not be seeing them. One family of 11 ignored being apart and 4 of them died. Only one was old.

 

[sheehs1]

Your response to pb4uski above not fair. Just because they have a different opinion? And the others on this thread that are stating others are crazymakers and risking the total population of the US (see how exaggeration works...). This is why this will be just as polarizing as politics and results in the protests, etc. I think caution is warranted, to slow things down, but if you think doing all of this will absolutely prevent you from ever getting this virus, I think you are kidding yourself. The idea is to slow things down to allow for the healthcare system to deal with it. Eventually, people will have to visit one another, or see one another at distances closer than 10 or 20 ft. As is fairly evident from other virus history, (cold, flu, etc) there is 99.9% chance there will NOT be a 100%, or even 75% effective vaccine. People can't stay locked up forever.
.

Polarizing will get worse and I cringe to contemplate just how much worse.

There is a difference between knowing and acknowledging we can not stay locked up forever versus doing these sorts of things during the known uptick and peak weeks, is it not?

 

[sheehs1]

As our area slowly goes back to work we will have to decide how rigid we need to be about isolation. Do we have dinners together at separate tables in the back yard? Keep up more complete isolation for months or years? I intend to make my decisions based on the best evidence of risk I can gather. I will also respect my kids decisions and will not impose my thinking on them or let them impose theirs on me.

Agreed. Those decisions will be tough ones to make. We will be all watching in the weeks to come to see how all this unfolds. I have already been asked to join an "Open our state" protest list. I declined.

 

[SteveNU]

Our three kids and three grandkids all live within an hour of us. Before this started we were watching our youngest granddaughter three days a week. And just last week her new baby brother was born. Needless to say we miss being able to be with them.

We rarely venture out now and all the kids are working from home or laid off so they too are staying home for the most part. We live in a rural area and in our neck of the woods there are very few cases of covid19.

So we have been having occasional visits, maybe once a week we will see one of them. We schedule it for a day when the weather is nice and we stay outdoors at a distance. We have all been locked up for over a month now so the risk is minimal in our eyes and we are in compliance with all of the governor's orders.

In my opinion the risk is extremely low in our case. Should we live in fear of every little thing that might cause us harm no matter how low the risk is?

 

[Tiger8693]

Polarizing will get worse and I cringe to contemplate just how much worse.

There is a difference between knowing and acknowledging we can not stay locked up forever versus doing these sorts of things during the known uptick and peak weeks, is it not?

I guess there being an uptick depends on where you are? Some locals don't need this level of lockdown.

 

[sheehs1]

+1

Yeah, this is a tough one. But, in the end, the responsibility for taking the kids for a four hour visit, which apparently included little effort to include only safe behaviors, sits in the lap of the parents. It would have been tough to say no and possibly would have ignited some family issues. That's what you have to do sometimes.

I totally agree with OP that the "other in-laws" should not have come for a visit which was not carefully restricted to safe behaviors. That put her DD and SIL in the position of having to make a tough decision. And confronted with that decision, they made the wrong decision IMHO.

It absolutely was their decision and one that was not made without. as I understand it , much consternation and disagreement. Sad really.
The night before they had told the other grandparents No and on my Facetime talk with them, they seemed to really feel good about that decision. The next morning an immediate turn around saying "the other grandparents" were coming anyway'.

One would think the "other grandparents" would have some awareness of what some of the results of "their coming anyway" might do. The pressure to join in, etc. Yes? No? It doesn't matter? I recognize just because I would never do this doesn't mean others don't or will not.

The only aspect of this that I felt I could say much about was "these are my grandchildren too". I know I don't have grandparents rights. I wasn't going for that. Rather, I was trying to raise the awareness of "this doesn't just affect them", "this is not an "in a vacuum decision", "others, like ourselves, are connected peripherally to this decision", etc. I think I did raise the awareness as well as the discussion even if the outcome was the same. At least I hope I did.

 

[Gumby]

Our three kids and three grandkids all live within an hour of us. Before this started we were watching our youngest granddaughter three days a week. And just last week her new baby brother was born. Needless to say we miss being able to be with them.

We rarely venture out now and all the kids are working from home or laid off so they too are staying home for the most part. We live in a rural area and in our neck of the woods there are very few cases of covid19.

So we have been having occasional visits, maybe once a week we will see one of them. We schedule it for a day when the weather is nice and we stay outdoors at a distance. We have all been locked up for over a month now so the risk is minimal in our eyes and we are in compliance with all of the governor's orders.

In my opinion the risk is extremely low in our case. Should we live in fear of every little thing that might cause us harm no matter how low the risk is?

I don't worry much about my personal safety, even though I live in the hot end of our state. On a daily basis, I don't do much that would expose me to the virus. But I still comply with all the social distancing requirements because I am part of a community that needs each of us to do our part. I act in solidarity with my neighbors and to protect those who are necessarily more at risk.

 

[sheehs1]

In my opinion the risk is extremely low in our case. Should we live in fear of every little thing that might cause us harm no matter how low the risk is?

Presumably, we are making assessments of risk based on posted numbers via those that have been tested which is a very low percentage.

It begs the question, how do we really know how low the risk is? We have been told of the supposed unparalleled contagion.

While I think all are doing their best, I do not at the moment believe the numbers.
We have already found interpreted differences from what the initial data from the first countries indicated.

At the moment, I will wait a bit before I change much of what I am doing.

 

[gwraigty]

The issue isn't going to end with this. It probably didn't start with this, did it? If your daughter and son-in-law keep caving in to whatever his parents demand, it's going to be a continuous undercurrent in their lives. Jumping through hoops to please demanding people only teaches them that they can keep it up. If others in the family can't bring themselves to say no, that's their problem. A relationship based on coercion and guilt isn't one of quality and it's not one worth having.

 

[sheehs1]

The issue isn't going to end with this. It probably didn't start with this, did it? If your daughter and son-in-law keep caving in to whatever his parents demand, it's going to be a continuous undercurrent in their lives. Jumping through hoops to please demanding people only teaches them that they can keep it up. If others in the family can't bring themselves to say no, that's their problem. A relationship based on coercion and guilt isn't one of quality and it's not one worth having.

They are both very happy and have three amazing children. Don't all grandparents feel this way? I don't get or try not to get into analyzing their relationship because it is theirs.

The only point to my post was to ask if others are dealing with differing opinions about COVID-19 from subsets of family that result in actions that cast a spotlight on just how different those opinions are. In this case it was to the point the other grandparents broke or breached basically all the recommendations and state mandates of several states. While I may not be ok with that....and I am not...there is nothing I can do about it...other than try to elevate the conversation. Which I did try to do.

You guys helped answer my question and I thank all that replied. We are all spread around the country, in different states, so it's been helpful to see the different replies that appear to at least support my own beliefs on the matter. Again , Thank you!

 

[gwraigty]

The issue isn't going to end with this. It probably didn't start with this, did it? If your daughter and son-in-law keep caving in to whatever his parents demand, it's going to be a continuous undercurrent in their lives. Jumping through hoops to please demanding people only teaches them that they can keep it up. If others in the family can't bring themselves to say no, that's their problem. A relationship based on coercion and guilt isn't one of quality and it's not one worth having.

They are both very happy and have three amazing children. Don't all grandparents feel this way? I don't get or try not to get into analyzing their relationship because it is theirs.

I think you misunderstood my post (shown above). I wasn't questioning the quality of your daughter's marriage. I was referring to the possible quality of their relationship with the other in-laws.

 

[sheehs1]

I think you misunderstood my post (shown above). I wasn't questioning the quality of your daughter's marriage. I was referring to the possible quality of their relationship with the other in-laws.

After re-reading your post, perhaps I did! And you are right to a certain extent.There have been things that surprised me and that I "had to get over" that in my opinion breached the respect and boundaries of "grandmothers", "grandparents. True even for my daughter in order to be "part of the group". But they have been married for 8 years and I don't see this changing any time soon.

I guess the last most recent one is insisting on traveling and "coming anyway" Easter when my daughter told her it was my birthday and they told them "No" because of COVID-19. Did it matter since I elected to stay away? Only in that they broke state laws to travel during this COVID-19 stuff and created much confusion for everyone that day. The mother-in-laws response: "I forgot".

My son-in-law called me that night because my daughter was so upset about the birthday thing and the COVID-19 thing and I had the opportunity to say, "I don't think your mother would like it if you spent her birthday with me". His response: "Fair enough". But still this stuff keeps happening!

 

[Ready]

There is a growing group of virus deniers who are taking bolder steps to ignore the current stay at home orders. They have decided that they have had enough of this. I’ve watched the local Nextdoor chat forums on this subject and while it’s still a minority, it’s a vocal and growing minority. With warmer weather coming, it’s going to be increasingly difficult to keep people inside. People are going to do what they are going to do.

 

[Bestwifeever]

DD and her DH decided right away that they and their kiddles would not see us or the other grandparents--we take our marching orders from them. The OP's DD may not be on the same page as her DD's DH, or maybe she is and she is just telling you what she thinks you want to hear. But it's their circus.

Our DS, who lives farther way with his DW and their kiddles and so not even a possibility to see them, said early on, "I'm not judging anyone." I've tried to make that my mantra. Good luck.

 

[sheehs1]

DD and her DH decided right away that they and their kiddles would not see us or the other grandparents--we take our marching orders from them. The OP's DD may not be on the same page as her DD's DH, or maybe she is and she is just telling you what she thinks you want to hear. But it's their circus.

Our DS, who lives farther way with his DW and their kiddles and so not even a possibility to see them, said early on, "I'm not judging anyone." I've tried to make that my mantra. Good luck.

Thanks Bestwifeever for the post. Your first sentence hits the nail on the head: "would not see us or the other grandparents". A policy that treats all the same-good for them! I'm fairly confidant it was also DD and her DH's initial approach.

DD was very upset, (as all were), somewhat fearful, etc., particularly when my 6 year old granddaughter got off the bus the day schools closed, in hysterical tears, because someone on the bus told her "adults would die".

As the weeks have rolled by and some simply find it impossible to continue with Stay At Home Orders and some perhaps never did, boundaries appear to be loosening. That was not communicated to both sets of grandparents until and after his parents "decided to come anyway".

So now...the offer has been made to me...that when I go to the bayfront condo I purchased 3 years ago which is in the same city as DD and her DH, perhaps they will visit, provided we "walk" on the bay 6 feet apart (impossible with young grandchildren). I have only been to my condo once during all this, for about 2 hours to clean, flush toilets and change the setting on HVAC -then immediately back to my primary home.

Part of the point is or may be that I will have to decide whether to break or change my own level of restrictions because they have relaxed their boundaries with the other set of grandparents but did not do so until the "they came anyway" day.

I think I will sit tight for now and abide by my states Orders and Guidelines.

 

[ivinsfan]

Thanks Bestwifeever for the post. Your first sentence hits the nail on the head: "would not see us or the other grandparents". A policy that treats all the same-good for them! I'm fairly confidant it was also DD and her DH's initial approach.

DD was very upset, (as all were), somewhat fearful, etc., particularly when my 6 year old granddaughter got off the bus the day schools closed, in hysterical tears, because someone on the bus told her "adults would die".

As the weeks have rolled by and some simply find it impossible to continue with Stay At Home Orders and some perhaps never did, boundaries appear to be loosening. That was not communicated to both sets of grandparents until and after his parents "decided to come anyway".

So now...the offer has been made to me...that when I go to the bayfront condo I purchased 3 years ago which is in the same city as DD and her DH, perhaps they will visit, provided we "walk" on the bay 6 feet apart (impossible with young grandchildren). I have only been to my condo once during all this, for about 2 hours to clean, flush toilets and change the setting on HVAC -then immediately back to my primary home.

Part of the point is or may be that I will have to decide whether to break or change my own level of restrictions because they have relaxed their boundaries with the other set of grandparents but did not do so until the "they came anyway" day.

I think I will sit tight for now and abide by my states Orders and Guidelines.

It weird how complicated this stuff gets. From what you wrote you weren't upset that the other GPs saw the kids and you didn't, you were bothered by all the mingling and breaking the stay at home order.

It's like they want to see if you are principled or can be lumped in with the other grandparents as complicit. I'm sure its not that simple but still. And of course the fact the other GPs "came anyway" really has nothing to do with your DD's family not holding the line on staying isolated.

I'm sure a lot of extended families everywhere are having the same type of discussions...