Whole house generator

[Time2]

About 15 years ago I bought a Miller welder to use as an emergency generator (11,000 watts). I bought it because we are in a hurricane area, had a business and stored our frozen inventory at our home which could be as much as $20k. My thinking was we could resell a little used welder easier than a generator. We only had occasion to use it 3 times, one of those was after hurricane Micheal when we didn't have power for 8 days. We used it for our home because the hurricane took care of the inventory! It sure was nice to have in that situation, and my neighbors sure appreciated hot coffee I passed out in the mornings.

 

[Jerry1]

Comment on noise. I have a liquid cooled unit. It’s a four cylinder car engine. It has a muffler and while it’s not silent and not as quiet as a car, it’s pretty quiet. Note that the generator component (these are actually motors and generators) will make some noise. If noise is a concern, something to consider.

On oil, use a synthetic. These things are hard on oil.

 

[Dash man]

Comment on noise. I have a liquid cooled unit. It’s a four cylinder car engine. It has a muffler and while it’s not silent and not as quiet as a car, it’s pretty quiet. Note that the generator component (these are actually motors and generators) will make some noise. If noise is a concern, something to consider.

On oil, use a synthetic. These things are hard on oil.

My Generac generator is loud standing next to it, but in the house I don’t hear it. My neighbor says she can’t hear it. We also don’t hear a few others in the neighborhood running unless we walk right by their house. Noise doesn’t seem to bother anyone.

 

[Ronstar]

I have a Generac 16KW generator hooked up to natural gas. Put it in 6 years ago and it's been needed several times. Once for 3-4 days.

Mine is not a whole house generator, but covers 16 of our electrical circuits with a switch and sub panel. I rewired the furnace, water heater, AC, well pump, 3 refrigerators, almost everything into the sub-panel. Did not include oven and cooktop. During a power outage the system recognizes it, turns on the generator and switches the sub panel from main house electrical to generator electrical.

I went with this model due to its size. I did have to have the gas company replace my 275 scfh meter with a bigger 415 scfh meter.

I think the 20KW generator was the next size up and required wiring into the electrical meter and I didn't want to mess with that. And I was worried about my existing gas service/ meter not being able to support that large of a generator.

I got the generator, sub panel, switch at Menards at an 11% off sale. I installed it myself, but did have my HVAC/plumber hook up the gas to it. Wiring it up was easy, but the generator is very heavy and I had a tough time getting it in place.

I paid $3708 for the generator and switch. Around $100 for the new meter with installation, and around $300 for the plumber to gas hook up. So around $4100 total. Best $4100 I ever spent.

I have a company come out yearly to provide maintenance. Oil change, cleaning, etc, and last year I needed a new battery.

 

[Golden sunsets]

We just installed a 22K Generac whole house generator. It will run everything(we haven't lost power since the installation.) It runs on propane, as we aren't on a natural gas grid. We live in a northern climate where the grid is winterized out of necessity, so loss of our fuel source is not an issue. I wish we were on a gas line, as we would not have to worry about running out of propane in a prolonged outage. I think our system would run for 4 days before running out. We could add a 3rd tank. We also use propane for our fireplace, cooktop and outdoor barbecue.

As mentioned, placement is key, not only for the owner but the neighbors, if your neighbors are close. The installed cost for us was $9,000. Annual service is less than quoted by some, more like $175/yr, including remote monitoring. Our system is connected to wifi, so that we can remotely monitor, as does the servicing company.

We ordered the generator at the end of September 2020, but back orders pushed installation out to January of this year. It provides a great deal of piece of mind. Installing whole house generators has become one of the favorite HI projects du jour in our neck of the woods.

 

[misanman]

Our power goes out probably once every year or two and usually it's not off for long. We have a 5K portable unit with a transfer switch to run water pump, furnace, sump pump, and some circuits in the kitchen and living room. There are a good many whole house units in our neighborhood, though. I hear various of them running their maintenance check when I walk in the morning.

 

[euro]

An issue I see and experience is I have a gas powered big portable generator.

Newer generators can be duel fuel, since gas goes bad (and constantly rotating 20 gallons of gas will be forgotten to be done). Could a person store a bunch of 20/40/100 lb propane tanks for years without it going bad ?

Yes. I have a dual fuel (natural gas and propane) and a 100lb tank of propane. This provides extra backup in case something happens to the gas supply also. That said, I wanted the dual fuel because we don’t have natural gas at our mountain cabin and I wanted to be able to use the generator in both places if necessary (the power lines at the cabin are actually much more vulnerable and we have outages quite frequently (sometimes several per month), so when we spend extended time at the cabin, we usually have the generator ready.

 

[Nick12]

My Generac generator is loud standing next to it, but in the house I don’t hear it. My neighbor says she can’t hear it. We also don’t hear a few others in the neighborhood running unless we walk right by their house. Noise doesn’t seem to bother anyone.

Mine is the opposite. The 16KW Generac is a workhorse. It is very loud, need earplugs when sleep and the whole street can hear it 24/7.

 

[Nick12]

Yes. I have a dual fuel (natural gas and propane) and a 100lb tank of propane. This provides extra backup in case something happens to the gas supply also. That said, I wanted the dual fuel because we don’t have natural gas at our mountain cabin and I wanted to be able to use the generator in both places if necessary (the power lines at the cabin are actually much more vulnerable and we have outages quite frequently (sometimes several per month), so when we spend extended time at the cabin, we usually have the generator ready.

100lb tank of propane? Is it install under your back yard or install next to your home? I would be concerned if it blows, the house would be destroyed. We have natural gas 16KW Generac.

 

[mpeirce]

Been wondering if generators will become commonplace to new homes (like furnaces or heat pumps) due to increased climate instability.

When we traveled to Africa we noticed that (non-poor) people all had generators. I guess we're just catching up to the rest of the world.

 

[Whisper66]

I live in Texas (Houston area). We lost power during the recent cold snap but it's the first time at our home we lost it due to cold in the 20+ years I've lived here. Lost it due to hurricanes a few times. Longest was for ~2 weeks.

Whole house generators are more $$ than I'd like to spend for the few occasions we need it at my house. I have a 5500 Watt gas generator and mulitple, long extension cords I can use to run refrigerators and some other things when needed. We load about 6 gas cans, our cars and boat with fuel before hurricanes. In the longest outage, we made it through all my gas cans + good part of my boat fuel tank before power came back on. We didn't run the generator all the time, just when needed.

I'm planning on looking into installing a power inlet box to plug the generator into rather than running long extension cords. The inlet box will be hooked to the main fuse box with an interlock switch. Then the generator can power loads anywhere in the home up to the generator capacity. So we can run the home gas heater for example but not the house A/C. But can run a small room A/C if needed. Components are cheap so real cost is electrician time. I haven't gotten estimates yet but I'm pretty sure total installed cost will be less than $1k which seems justified in our situation.

 

[exnavynuke]

My family up North has a Generac 16KW whole house generator. Several years ago it cost $12K. 1x a year, there needs to be a service - oil change, spark plugs, filter which runs $300. 1x a week the generator kicks in for 10 min to run . if you are out of power for several days or longer, the tech needs to be called for an oil change after 3 days of straight run time. Oil change $150. If the generator is covered in snow, you must dig it out to ensure that the vents on the unit are clear of snow. If the unit is not clear of snow and the generator runs, you can breathe the carbon monoxide going into the house and that could prove to be fatal. With a power outage, AC/Heat , lights, and all electrical outlets can be used including up to two fridges. The tech said if you do the wash,dry , cook and have every light on, heat or AC that would be overloading the generator. Skip the wash/ dryer and cook sparingly was the advice. The neighbor next door to my family had no generator so we ran an electrical cord to their house so they could power a fridge, one lamp and charge their phone. The generator is very loud, can be heard throughout the whole street, wear earplugs while going to sleep. One power outage was over 6 days. The generator can be a good selling point when the house is up for sale. Less than 5% of homes where my family lives has a whole house generator. It is a great investment and piece of mind when the power goes out. When the power goes out all your neighbors will know you have a Generac. One can hear it running non stop from far away.

Wow, I'm really surprised yours makes that much noise. I have a 16kw Generac whole home generator and it sits right outside the master bedroom window. If the TV is on at a normal volume you won't even notice the generator running from inside the house if you're not actively listening for it. By 2 houses down you can barely tell there's a generator running if you're outside listening for it. At the enclosure it measured 65db iirc, which is quieter than most people listen to a TV or music.

Professionally installed, including running new gas lines, installing the auto-transfer switch, etc. ran me about $9k including the generator and all parts for the 16kw Generac.

 

[sengsational]

I would wager that members here are much more likely to have a generator than the average Joe, even adjusting for wealth; I see no lights in our neighborhood, and hear no motors running when the power is out.

I considered the Ronstar approach (DIY install with a subset of circuits), but getting from the generator to the main panel in the finished basement would have been a mess.

I've got gas heat, so my main use-case is operating the furnace blower and the fridge. I watched an Ask This Old House where they did a DIY install, and it looked pretty easy. This thread got me thinking, and I wonder if I could get from the generator to the main panel area with a conduit on the outside of the house (instead of tearing up drywall in the basement). Hmmm.

 

[skipro33]

Been wondering if generators will become commonplace to new homes (like furnaces or heat pumps) due to increased climate instability.

I think it's less about climate instability than it is a maintenance issue. In my neck of the woods, the electric company has been severely fined by the PUC for not maintaining their vegetation/tree clearances to their power lines. The facts proved they cut that part of the budget in order to boost profits. Well, that bit them in the hiney. In fact, I think critical infrastructure should not be allowed to be managed by private/for-profit companies but rather by municipalities.

When we traveled to Africa we noticed that (non-poor) people all had generators. I guess we're just catching up to the rest of the world.

Hardening a grid is as simple as putting the lines underground. Overhead lines are cheap to run, but the consequences for doing so results in extended outages. Put it all underground and let it rain, wind blow and temperatures freeze. The transmission and distribution is safe.
Of course, this time around, in Texas, it was as much those things as it was their generation wasn't hardened enough for the cold. Another fact of private enterprise placing profit above their customers that also bit them in the hiney.

 

[Scubamax]

As the events in Texas indicate, not many were really expecting an event of this magnitude and impact. When we made our decision to get a whole-house generator, we thought about all of the "unknown unknowns" as well as precedent in our area for power interruptions due to storms, along with the state of our infrastructure (not being updated as well as it should be in general).

We add to that calculus the threat of a cyber event which could compromise grid integrity. We view this a "when" not an "if". So for that reason we don't have our rig on wifi/internet.

TL/DR: More unpredictability in the future=greater need for redundant power solution.

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

We are one of the few in our neighborhood (it's not big) that doesn't have a whole house. For the most part, they are all Generacs (probably not ironic since there is a dealer that lives in the hood) and they are all pretty damn loud.

Our house was wired for a portable and that's what we have. It's a Westinghouse 7500w (9500 peak) dual fuel and it runs pretty much the whole house (no HVAC but we do get the water heater or well pump but not both @ same time) with no issues. We have the NG attachment kit to hook it up to the house supply and if that becomes an issue, we have two large gas stations less than 2 miles from our house and both have generators to keep the gas flowing, so gasoline shortage *shouldn't* be an issue.

One note about the portable generator. It is a "dirty power" and can destroy electronics. Easy solution is having a *good* uninterruptible power supply to plug those into. We have all our computers, TV, etc. on them and if we are generator power, we also plug out tabs/phones in them.

Our Generac dealer neighbor told us not too long ago that there was a shortage of the larger whole house gens available and I imagine this TX gaggle will only make that MUCH worse.

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

Hardening a grid is as simple as putting the lines underground.

There is NOTHING simple about that. And certainly not cheap.

 

[Ronstar]

Another important note for this time of year - Make sure that the generator exhaust vents aren't snow covered.

https://innovativeelectricinc.net/make-sure-your-generator-is-clear-of-snow/

 

[Freedom56]

Freedom56, can you give me an idea of the cost involved in your setup? This past summer So Cal Edison has been turning off the power when high winds and fire season and I think it's only going to get worse and I need some kind of backup.

We got the generator for the same reason. The outlet with the interlock to our main panel cost us $350 installed. I could have saved some money had I installed the outlet on our own. The generator cost us $1100 at the time.

https://powerequipment.honda.com/generators/models/eg2800i

We placed the generator on a wheeled based so we can roll it out when needed.

Our entire set-up cost just over $1400 at the time. We looked at battery back-up for our solar panels, but it was far more expensive. We did add a UPS to our router and cable modem and VOIP phone to give us about 12 hours of internet with the power off also.

 

[Koolau]

Good friend on mainland has a HUGE generator nat gas/propane to run his Vet clinic. Another friend has the Generac for his whole house - with Nat Gas. BOTH have been glad to have it, but it is expensive to buy and relatively expensive to maintain for the very few times it's been needed.

In our condo, we're not allowed to have generators of any kind. Our building does have a good sized diesel generator which runs the elevators and keeps lights on in the commons areas (nothing to resident's apartments.) Since our "grid" is fragile, the generator gets a decent workout, though rarely longer than 30 minutes.

We fortunately have few "life threatening" issues with power outages (Sorry, I have forgotten who was worried about his wife's O2 generator during the recent weather event in TX, etc., but THAT would be an issue anywhere.) Mostly, it would be minor to major inconvenience (just lights at the beginning and later a lack of water when the gravity flow was empty.)

We keep LOTS of batteries to run lights. We keep toilet-flush water containers good for maybe 3 days at least. YMMV

 

[REWahoo]

...we have two large gas stations less than 2 miles from our house and both have generators to keep the gas flowing, so gasoline shortage *shouldn't* be an issue.

The problem we experienced in getting gasoline for our generator was the gas stations with back-up generators were overwhelmed with demand and ran out within a day or two. Refineries/fuel farms were closed down due to lack of power, and roads were impassable for resupply due to icy conditions. Literally a "perfect storm".

 

[Texas Proud]

Thanks for all the replies, it is very useful...


On my siblings... one had lost electricity for 4 plus days... 3 other between 2 and 3 days...



We have been without electricity for over 2 weeks back in 2008... and a number of times for much less time.... I think it it going to get worse...


(Political rant)... the insistence of gvmt that all cars need to be electric is going to create much more problems with the grid going forward as electrical need will be 1.5X or even 2X what we use now...(rant off)


One of my wife's friend has an installed generator that only runs the 'necessaries' but she complained that it was set up only to heat her bedroom... My sister and I want to make sure we can run the HVAC system, especially in the summer...


From what I have read it is better to pay a bit extra for the water cooled systems that run at 1800 rpm than the air cooled that run at 3600 rmp.



I will be getting bids on a few, but the Cummings seem to be a top contender...


For both of us the placement is behind the detached garage... so a distance from the house... my gas is a long way from there but hers is right next to it...


As far as I know we have never lost natural gas and did not during this storm, my sister in Austin did not lose it either and she was out 2 to 3 days...


I will see if the generator can be a duel fuel and see how much to put in a 100 gal propane tank as that is not that big, just have to see how long it can run with that amount of propane..


I appreciate the suggestion of synthetic oil... that is something I would not have thought to do but makes sense.

 

[rk911]

OK, of the 6 kids that my mom had all 6 of us were without electricity at some point in time during this storm, some for over 4 days (one in Oregon who lives way out in the boonies, others in Texas)...


I was lucky and was out only about 5 or so hours, but had people over who wanted to take a warm shower and get some good hot food before going back to their house...


My oldest sister is now wanting to look at a whole house generator as she does not want to be placed in that situation... my DW wants me to get one also as we think that it might get worse with stronger hurricanes and such...


SO, does anybody have one?
What brand did you get?
What is the output?

and how much did it cost in total?


Any negative things that I need to be made aware?

we put one in 8-9 years ago and love it. it's a Kohler, runs off natural gas (most models will also run off LP) and was sized to power the entire house including the AC. we upgraded the main panel at the same time from 60-amp to 100-amp (we did a second upgrade to 200-amps a gew years ago). we also had to run a separate supply line from the meter and that addes to the coat. it runs a self-test, under load, for 20-min each week and i do maintenance every 100-hrs of operation. like most things these days there's an app for that. we get a text message every time the genny runs, transfers power and stops running. our genny is in the back of the house but because our street is curved it does face our neighnor's yard and garage. the noise level is about that of a lawn mower.

in November 2019 we were on the genny for 60-hrs straight...an island of light and heat in the neighborhood. i hooked up the neighbors on each side so they each had 20-amp to use. i stopped the genny for 15-20 minutes after 48-hrs to chekck the oil level...added some and fired it back up.

advice: don't go cheap, buy quality. at the time Generac had lousy reviews. our Kohler has been rock solid although i did have to replace the battery about 5-yrs ago. Kohler's remote software leaves A LOT to be desired.

good luck. what questionsz do you have?

 

[CaptTom]

Lots of good advice here, and it just shows there are lots of very different options and considerations.

On the one hand, if all you're going to do is write a check, then yes, go find a reputable installer and leave it in their hands. Blow that dough!

For those few of us left on this forum who aren't struggling to blow enough dough, I'll add a few pointers:

Do NOT let a salesman oversell you. They're going to want to add up the maximum capacity of every circuit in your house, and sell you a unit sized to power all of them simultaneously. The reality is, you will probably never max out any of your circuits, and almost certainly never at the same time. Consider what loads you are likely to need to run, and size for those.

That said, don't be stingy. You might think all you need to run is the heating system or sump pump, but once you have power to a few things, you'll want to do more. Cook, watch TV, bathe, surf the web, whatever.

Whatever you do, don't get one of those transfer panels which forces you to decide, in advance, which six (or whatever) circuits to power. You never know which ones you'll really want in an unforeseen situation. Go with a whole-house transfer switch.

Electric motors create a huge spike in startup current. Generators are usually OK with that for a few moments, but don't start multiple motors at once. When powering things back up, do one circuit at a time.

 

[Mr._Graybeard]

we put one in 8-9 years ago and love it. it's a Kohler, runs off natural gas (most models will also run off LP) and was sized to power the entire house including the AC. we upgraded the main panel at the same time from 60-amp to 100-amp (we did a second upgrade to 200-amps a gew years ago). we also had to run a separate supply line from the meter and that addes to the coat. it runs a self-test, under load, for 20-min each week and i do maintenance every 100-hrs of operation. like most things these days there's an app for that. we get a text message every time the genny runs, transfers power and stops running. our genny is in the back of the house but because our street is curved it does face our neighnor's yard and garage. the noise level is about that of a lawn mower.

in November 2019 we were on the genny for 60-hrs straight...an island of light and heat in the neighborhood. i hooked up the neighbors on each side so they each had 20-amp to use. i stopped the genny for 15-20 minutes after 48-hrs to chekck the oil level...added some and fired it back up.

advice: don't go cheap, buy quality. at the time Generac had lousy reviews. our Kohler has been rock solid although i did have to replace the battery about 5-yrs ago. Kohler's remote software leaves A LOT to be desired.

An old friend used to work for Kohler's generator division. He held Generac in pretty low regard. The company has several assembly plants around here in small towns where pay scales are low. Glassdoor.com reports average wage for assemblers is $15/hour. You get what you pay for.