Why should we Bail out the Cruise industry?

[RetireAge50]

I bet once the virus passes people will forget all about it and continue on with their Captain’s club memberships or whatever. I’m not sure anybody really needs or even asked for a bailout. They already have firm credit lines established and plenty of assets to back them up. Sail on and another [emoji483] please.

 

[Go-NoGo]

I bet once the virus passes people will forget all about it and continue on with their Captain’s club memberships or whatever.

It is going to take about 3-5 years of _incident free_ cruise ship news before this industry is going to return to any semblance on pre-covid normalcy.

That means NO COVID-19 incidents, NO Norovirus incidents, NO any viral incidents.
I expect if they get back to sailing next year they will discount very heavily and will be in the red before they will they see profit.

I will let others be the agar in the petri dish before I dip my toe in that water.

 

[camfused]

^^^^ There is a very large number of stupid people out there. I think the cruise industry will do find again in the coming winter season.

 

[Fermion]

I imagine I will have the opportunity to buy those bonds at 50 cents on the dollar or less by the end of the year.

The bonds could take a bigger haircut than that if passengers end up suing the cruise line. There is no value in the ships either...they are actually negative value because they cost money to harbor.

I wouldn't touch the stock or the bonds.

 

[Chuckanut]

^^^^ There is a very large number of stupid people out there. I think the cruise industry will do find again in the coming winter season.

The first law of human stupidity:


Always and inevitably everyone underestimates the number of stupid individuals in circulation.

 

[brewer12345]

The bonds could take a bigger haircut than that if passengers end up suing the cruise line. There is no value in the ships either...they are actually negative value because they cost money to harbor.

I wouldn't touch the stock or the bonds.

The ships are worth something. If the bonds at 50 are money good with the ships as scrap, might be worth a fling.

 

[harley]

^^^^ There is a very large number of stupid people out there. I think the cruise industry will do find again in the coming winter season.

Cruise bookings are on the rise for 2021 despite coronavirus

 

[Fermion]

Well, CCL just did a raise at $8 a share, which means they don't have access to cheaper money.

I figure CCL and SDRL are racing each other now to see who can go bankrupt first.

 

[Sunset]

Cruise bookings are on the rise for 2021 despite coronavirus

I think a lot of it is just using the Future Cruise Credit, as they expire at the end of 2021, so it's use it or lose it, actually going is another issue.

 

[Independent]

Yep

“That includes people applying their future cruise credits from sailings that were cancelled this year, but still shows a surprising resilience in desire to book a cruise,” UBS equity analysts wrote in a March 31 report on cruise lines.

The analysis doesn’t show how much of the reported increase is actually people just optimistically re-booking their canceled cruise for next year.

BUT, I was booked on a cruise that was going to sail on March 14. CCL ended up giving a choice of cash or cruise credit+$600. I took the cash. People in my situation weren't really faced with a use it or lose it situation.

I took the cash partially because I was concerned about CCL going under (the company, not the ships).

 

[Beachcomber]

Many US companies make their product overseas and sell it here. Car companies, most products at Best Buy, clothing, etc. Yet they can get bailed out?

Heck, I used to document my boat in a different state to avoid biased taxes.

it is a complicated question, let the lawyers figure it out, not the DC relationship with politician.

 

[Hicks3456]

Most if not all boats are registered overseas, in the Bahamas, BVI's and Panama to avoid high registration, duty, taxes etc., and are often owned by overseas conglomerates.

I do not think it is prudent for the USA to help them out.

This is a wakeup call to Americans in regard to cruise companies. They pay no taxes!

You will hear the cruise companies talk about the port fees they pay – wrong those are the government charges paid by the passengers and more than likely we are charged more than the posts ever see. The same goes for jobs they say they create – again wrong those are also paid by the passengers.

What about the fancy cruise terminals they operate from? Again, they are paid from revenue received by the port. Ports would actually make a profit if they did not bow to the cruise companies.

Well we must get taxes from the boats – nope they are registered to countries that want nothing to do with these cruise companies.

What about all the employment the cruise lines have on their boats? Again, they recruit from 3rd world countries that will accept the pittance they pay their crew. You the passenger pay the crew in the tips that you are now forced to pay.

The cruise companies are the best deal going. They pay no taxes and operate for free. They must be held accountable now and in the future. Laws must be passed to end the way they are allowed to operate in the future.

 

[carty1]

I vote no bail out to cruise lines.

 

[CaptTom]

This is a wakeup call to Americans in regard to cruise companies. They pay no taxes!

Then the real wake-up call will be when they figure out how many other big corporations pay little to no taxes.

 

[dixter]

maybe some one knows something the rest of us don't know...

CARNIVAL CORP NOTE CALL MAKE WHOLE - some one just bought $2.7 million today... and several buyers in the $4 mill range...
Cusip 143658BA9 cost basis 94.46 Ask Yield to maturity 15.371% with maturity at 10/15/20 ... pretty easy money with coupon on top of that at 3.95%

 

[Chuckanut]

As long as there is so much as one small business in the USA - without significant Federal help - suffering from the government mandated deep slowdown of our economy, the cruise lines should get zero, zip, nada.

As long as there is one American citizen or legal alien unemployed for no reason other than government fiat, the cruise lines should not get one penny of help.

The big boys and girls who own the cruise lines can take care of themselves.

 

[youbet]

As long as there is so much as one small business in the USA - without significant Federal help - suffering from the government mandated deep slowdown of our economy, the cruise lines should get zero, zip, nada.

As long as there is one American citizen or legal alien unemployed for no reason other than government fiat, the cruise lines should not get one penny of help.

The big boys and girls who own the cruise lines can take care of themselves.

+1

Well said. There's just no reason I'm comfortable with for resources to be shifted from the American lower and middle classes to cruise lines until we have resources to burn and no other idea on what to do with the money.

People who disagree are fortunate in that they are still totally free to mail a contribution from their own accounts to the cruise line of their choice. I'd have no problem with that.

 

[brewer12345]

+1

Well said. There's just no reason I'm comfortable with for resources to be shifted from the American lower and middle classes to cruise lines until we have resources to burn and no other idea on what to do with the money.

People who disagree are fortunate in that they are still totally free to mail a contribution from their own accounts to the cruise line of their choice. I'd have no problem with that.

In the case of ccl, they just did.

 

[Fermion]

I was just talking with my wife as we drove through our town and looked at all of the small businesses that were closed. Some signs were kind of salty (understood) like the small bowling alley that said "Closed until Jay says we can open" (Jay Inslee is our governor).

I don't know how these small businesses will survive, and they are closed to protect us. Bowling alleys, Restaurants, Fitness gyms, Hair Salons. In my opinion they are way ahead of the line from cruise industry.

 

[RetireAge50]

I was just talking with my wife as we drove through our town and looked at all of the small businesses that were closed. Some signs were kind of salty (understood) like the small bowling alley that said "Closed until Jay says we can open" (Jay Inslee is our governor).



I don't know how these small businesses will survive, and they are closed to protect us. Bowling alleys, Restaurants, Fitness gyms, Hair Salons. In my opinion they are way ahead of the line from cruise industry.

I’m naive but won’t they just walk over and unlock the door, turn on the lights, and keep doing what they were doing? If not I guess you might be building a house in a ghost town[emoji3].

 

[Fermion]

I’m naive but won’t they just walk over and unlock the door, turn on the lights, and keep doing what they were doing? If not I guess you might be building a house in a ghost town[emoji3].

If there was a switch that would turn off the payments they have to make to banks, city/county taxes, utilities, insurance, then it might be easy to turn off the lights for 4 months then turn them back on again.

Does this switch exist?

 

[euro]

If there was a switch that would turn off the payments they have to make to banks, city/county taxes, utilities, insurance, then it might be easy to turn off the lights for 4 months then turn them back on again.

Does this switch exist?

No

 

[Music Lover]

If there was a switch that would turn off the payments they have to make to banks, city/county taxes, utilities, insurance, then it might be easy to turn off the lights for 4 months then turn them back on again.

On top of that they also have to convince people to start using their services again. Many people may be happy with some of their current alternate arrangements of working out at home, cooking more, not bowling, etc.

 

[TriumphTR3fan]

The purpose of a bailout is usually to preserve an industry that is needed by the U.S. to survive. Preserving shipping to fight a war is obvious. Today though we really don't need cruise liners to move large amounts of troops. We now do that with airliners. It is safer & quicker. Cruise ships do move larger groups but are vulnerable to attack. If an airliner is hit there are less people on board.
So the question is what is the worth of the vacation industry? Nearly all cruise line employees are not American citizens. While there are a lot of supplies that are consumed by the cruising industry most of that is redirected within our economy as we all need those commodities in our everyday lives. It doesn't matter if those supplies are used on ships or in our homes.
It seems wrong to bailout an industry that has actively avoided regulation & taxation & sought to financially benefit a small group at the expense of the American people.

 

[Midpack]

The cruise industry was excluded in the package 9 days ago.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/03/26/cruise-line-bailout/