Apple iPhone

[Zathras]

I must correct my earlier statement. When I said 'most stores have iPhones in stock' I was speaking from personal experience at two of the Apple stores here in Minneapolis, MN.
From what I have been seeing on the news, it does appear that many stores have sold out by Saturday and that a number have sold on Ebay. I still wouldn't stand in line for one for hours or buy above retails on Ebay, but to each their own I guess.

 

[bpp3]

So, this phone includes a web browser, music player and camera? So what? The phone in my pocket does all that already, and I don't even use most of those features. I certainly wouldn't pay for them.

These people lined up and paid through the nose for a phone that doesn't do anything particularly special, except have the Apple logo on it. Dang, Steve Jobs is a genius.

 

[Rich_by_the_Bay]

I touched an iPhone at the Apple store here in Tampa. Beautiful screen and the interface, as always with Apple, is stunning.

But... no value added for me. Maybe I am now officially old-fashioned but it seemed to me like a solution in search of a problem. My phone works better than this one because I'm not with AT&T. My laptop works better than this for web browsing, and my current email/contact list etc. in my palm works just fine. Would I like to consolidate them all in one gadget? Sure, but not without a keyboard or some other real means of entering data or text.

There is something to the iPhone, but not enough for me. Maybe in a couple of years.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Apple certainly has mastered the art of destination product marketing, havent they?

 

[bright eyed]

i have a new blackbry and all i did was set up the email, google maps and that was that - nothing else and i know it can do a few backflips but that darn user manual is too thick.

one of the things apple does heads and tails better than other electronic folks is making things user friendly, easy to start, set up etc. we just set up junior's ipod and it was pretty easy breezy. the manual was a little fold out brochure...not a 1/2 inch thick...

 

[bpp3]

Warning: OT rant follows...

one of the things apple does heads and tails better than other electronic folks is making things user friendly[...]

Question for the Apple folks: when using a Mac as an X11 server, how does one adjust the preferences for window focus? Right now, the Macs I have used require that one first click in a window to grab focus, then and only then can one click on any of the buttons within that window. If you click one of the the buttons before grabbing focus, they change color, and so appear to have been activated, but in fact they have not -- you've merely grabbed focus, and have to click again. It seems as though maybe mouse move events are being transmitted to the application, but not mouse click ones? Anyway, this extremely counter-intuitive behavior is maddening, and I can't find a way to fix it. I have asked Mac gurus around me, and they scratch their heads, too. This is a very basic user-configurable parameter in most window managers, but not the Mac one.

Any ideas?

Also, where are the other #$%&%$# mouse buttons? Why do simple cut-and-paste operations require multiple, simultaneous button presses? What is so user-friendly about that? (I mean, for a user who is not an octopus.)

 

[Rich_by_the_Bay]

Warning: OT rant follows...
when using a Mac as an X11 server, how does one adjust the preferences for window focus? Right now, the Macs I have used require that one first click in a window to grab focus, then and only then can one click on any of the buttons within that window. If you click one of the the buttons before grabbing focus, they change color, and so appear to have been activated, but in fact they have not -- you've merely grabbed focus, and have to click again. It seems as though maybe mouse move events are being transmitted to the application, but not mouse click ones? Anyway, this extremely counter-intuitive behavior is maddening, and I can't find a way to fix it. I have asked Mac gurus around me, and they scratch their heads, too. This is a very basic user-configurable parameter in most window managers, but not the Mac one.

Any ideas?

Also, where are the other #$%&%$# mouse buttons? Why do simple cut-and-paste operations require multiple, simultaneous button presses? What is so user-friendly about that? (I mean, for a user who is not an octopus.)

I guess it's all relative. I don't know of a user-configurable method for adjusting how clicks are passed through to the underlying window but I do know that the way Windows handles it drives me crazy (if I want to simply bring a window to the front to read it, the click gets passed through to any underlying buttons resulting in unintended consequences. So I have to be sure and activate a window using dead space and not an ad for a Ford Explorer).

As to cut and paste, I'm not sure why cmd-c and cmd-v are that different from Ctrl-c and Ctrl-v. Is that what you meant? If you want to assign a function key you can, perhaps via Applescript. Or maybe I'm misunderstanding the question.

Anyhow, it can be frustrating switching between OS's.

 

[whitestick]

Also, where are the other #$%&%$# mouse buttons? Why do simple cut-and-paste operations require multiple, simultaneous button presses? What is so user-friendly about that? (I mean, for a user who is not an octopus.)

Not sure why this is difficult, unless you are only wanting to use the apple mouse. I plug in a Kensington USB trackball with left and right mouse buttons, and clicking the right button activates a menu choice that I can pull down to copy or paste as the context requires. Have used other USB 2 button mice before as well, and they also work. And the wheel moves the field up or down as you would want it to. Maybe you should change the mouse - you are not limited to only one choice.

 

[bpp3]

As to cut and paste, I'm not sure why cmd-c and cmd-v are that different from Ctrl-c and Ctrl-v. Is that what you meant? If you want to assign a function key you can, perhaps via Applescript. Or maybe I'm misunderstanding the question.

To copy some text from one xterm to another xterm on any unix/linux system that I have seen in the past 20 years, you highlight the text with the left mouse button in the source window, and click with the middle button in the destination window. On the Mac... there is no middle button. (And the cmd/ctrl-c, -v stuff doesn't work in xterms for some reason. The copy/paste buffers are not shared? But that's odd, because they are on every other unix system, and the Mac is unix based nowadays... but they have lobotomized the user interface somehow.)

Ok, bring your own mouse -- kind of a pain to do whenever I want to use a public terminal. Or write a macro to emulate the other buttons -- which has often been done by whoever maintains the machine, but there is no standard on how to do this. Why can't they just provide the other two buttons by default? But no, that would be too user-friendly.

Anyhow, it can be frustrating switching between OS's.

Yes, especially when one's computing habits ossified some time back in the '80s... (hey, at least I admit it.)

 

[Robert the Red]

Question for the Apple folks: when using a Mac as an X11 server, how does one adjust the preferences for window focus? Right now, the Macs I have used require that one first click in a window to grab focus, then and only then can one click on any of the buttons within that window. If you click one of the the buttons before grabbing focus, they change color, and so appear to have been activated, but in fact they have not -- you've merely grabbed focus, and have to click again. It seems as though maybe mouse move events are being transmitted to the application, but not mouse click ones? Anyway, this extremely counter-intuitive behavior is maddening, and I can't find a way to fix it. I have asked Mac gurus around me, and they scratch their heads, too. This is a very basic user-configurable parameter in most window managers, but not the Mac one.

You can control the 'click thru' feature of the Mac X11 application by setting a system default. This is done by issuing the command

defaults write com.apple.x11 wm_click_through true

Then when you click in an X11 window, that window gets focus (receives further mouse click and keyboard events) and also gets that particular click. The normal Mac windows are not affected by this -- they still have the default "first click just gives the window focus" mode, and I'm pretty sure there is no way to change this.

You can do 'man Xquartz' to see the other com.apple.x11 defaults that you can change. Once you issue a 'defaults' command, the value is written to the system preferences and you shouldn't need to give that command again.

Also, where are the other #$%&%$# mouse buttons? Why do simple cut-and-paste operations require multiple, simultaneous button presses? What is so user-friendly about that? (I mean, for a user who is not an octopus.)

The equivalent of mouse button #2 (middle button) is 'Option'+click, and the equivalent of #3 (right button) is 'Apple'+click. However, if you are going to use X11 much, you really should get a 3 button mouse (or a mouse with a scroll-wheel).

Back on the main topic -- I got my iPhone last night. Is it justifiable? Not really -- but it's a lot cheaper than a red sports car, and more fun (for me).

 

[bpp3]

You can control the 'click thru' feature of the Mac X11 application by setting a system default. This is done by issuing the command

defaults write com.apple.x11 wm_click_through true

Wow, thanks! I'll try it out. This has been driving a lot of folks at work nuts.

The equivalent of mouse button #2 (middle button) is 'Option'+click, and the equivalent of #3 (right button) is 'Apple'+click.

Are those mappings standardized? Good to know if so.

However, if you are going to use X11 much, you really should get a 3 button mouse (or a mouse with a scroll-wheel).

Yeah. Thing is, somebody decided to get a whole bunch of Macs for use primarily as X11 servers. Seems like the most expensive possible solution to me, but the folks in charge of that decision are Mac fanatics. Maybe I should just bug them to shell out for the mice, too.

 

[Robert the Red]

Are those mappings standardized? Good to know if so.

Yeah. Thing is, somebody decided to get a whole bunch of Macs for use primarily as X11 servers. Seems like the most expensive possible solution to me, but the folks in charge of that decision are Mac fanatics. Maybe I should just bug them to shell out for the mice, too.

Yes, those are the standard Apple-recommended ways to do the Button #2 and #3 clicks.

The cheapest way to get an X11 seat is probably to buy a low-end Linux system. Harder to set up than a Mac, though.

And really, if these things are primarily for X11, a bunch of cheap 3 button USB mice are a trivial investment that will save people's sanity. If you are using one yourself, and the company for some reason won't get you such a mouse, then pay the $10 yourself!

 

[W2R]

If you are using one yourself, and the company for some reason won't get you such a mouse, then pay the $10 yourself!

$10? The last one I bought cost $5, after rebate.

Sorry. COULD NOT help it. I love my little $5 three-button mouse and I love getting a good deal!

 

[Nords]

I appreciate the heck out of any well-engineered product whose touch surfaces & moving parts work flawlessly together, whether it's an iPhone or Vida Guerra.

But I can enjoy gazing upon these modern works of art without feeling compelled to possess them-- especially when they'd cost me thousands of dollars, let alone be contractually temporally limited or require extensive explanation to my spouse.

Now I just have to reformat those above sentiments to be adoptable by our teenager, who still confuses engineering admiration with consumer lust. This time I'm talking about the iPhone.

The best iPhone endorsement I've read in the last 60 hours comes from a local tech geek who puts it in terms of "belt space". He used to have to carry a cell phone, a PDA, and an iPod. His Treo got the belt space down to just two pieces of gear, and now the iPhone means just one. Not a bad camera, either...

 

[W2R]

I can enjoy gazing upon these modern works of art without feeling compelled to possess them-- especially when they'd cost me thousands of dollars, let alone be contractually temporally limited or require extensive explanation to my spouse.

I feel the same way about certain cars. I can appreciate that they are really beautiful, and utterly adore them, but I do not feel compelled to possess one (and the insurance coverage, and bad mileage, the maintenance, and the questionable repair record that comes along with that beautiful machine).

And then there are boats, and planes.

It's not like whatever-it-is will forever vanish from the earth if I don't purchase one.

 

[Nords]

the maintenance, and the questionable repair record that comes along with that beautiful machine).
It's not like whatever-it-is will forever vanish from the earth if I don't purchase one.

Very good points-- it's not the expense, it's the maintenance!

This time I'm not talking about iPhones...

 

[bssc]

There was a crowd of people in one of the cube aisles. One of the production support people got an iPhone and was showing it off. It only took an hour in line and hour to get set up.

 

[Robert the Red]

There was a crowd of people in one of the cube aisles. One of the production support people got an iPhone and was showing it off. It only took an hour in line and hour to get set up.

I just walked into an Apple store yesterday and bought one. Activation took about 6-7 minutes on my computer -- but I already had an AT&T cell phone plan, so that sped things up a lot.

Still figuring out some of the details, and running into various software limitations that I hope will be fixed. Such as:

• No way to save an emailed JPEG file to the Photos directory
• No way to Copy/Paste between screens and applications
• Not all applications turn sideways when you turn the iPhone
• Google maps directions doesn't have the new feature on the Web version where you can drag the suggested route to go via some other path -- say, if you want to avoid freeways
• Can't capture video with the builtin camera

 

[Zathras]

Well, the 'belt space' saving is a plus.
But still the number one reason for me is the interface. For me it is perfect. I can type messages 5 times faster than I could with other phones (smart or otherwise). I also like how it treats text messages as conversations, so it will show the persons text message to you underneath your text message to them, under their message to you, all the way back to the beggining of the conversation.
The method of scrolling is painfully simple and elegant.
Yes, I paid to much and yes, the next generation will have fewer bugs, but I am very happy with my purchase

 

[bpp3]

The cheapest way to get an X11 seat is probably to buy a low-end Linux system.

Yup, that's what I opined, too. Especially considering that the Mac X11 terminals are being used as display devices for applications running mostly on... Linux machines.

Thank you, thank you, I'll be here all week.

But, sadly, no joke.

 

[Zathras]

Yup, that's what I opined, too. Especially considering that the Mac X11 terminals are being used as display devices for applications running mostly on... Linux machines.

Thank you, thank you, I'll be here all week.

But, sadly, no joke.

Are you SURE about that? I could swear that came right out of a Dilbert cartoon

 

[ERD50]

There's a lot of stuff the iPhone can do that people don't know about:

Here's a video that demonstrates.

And another shows it doing magic tricks...

YouTube - iPhone Magic


-ERD50