Fun with dead 12V batteries and jumper cables

[Nords]

Since I don't have a Prius, I don't really know... but wouldn't there be a lot more intermittent and constant loads on the 12V aux battery than you mentioned?
Like lights, both inside and outside including brake lights, and power windows, cabin HVAC fan, door locks (like a hatch release ), ABS pump, electric fuel pump (usually a big draw) for the fuel injection, etc?

When the car's shut down the 12V battery powers the alarm system (which can't be disarmed or shut off), the cabin lights, the door locks, and the back hatch. Shutting down the car also shuts off the things we might forget, like headlights. If you shut down the car you can't even use the power windows.

Once the car boots up, though, all the electrical loads are powered by the main battery through the motor generator or the inverter. And of course the internal-combustion engine comes on from time to time to help recharge the main battery.

I'm being told on PriusChat that the Prius 12V battery-charging system is pretty rudimentary (just a constant voltage) and slow. So I might've discharged it through a combination of short trips and leaving the back hatch open. But no problems since, and this morning I gave it a solid 60-minute round trip to White Plains Beach. As long as the surf is good then I shouldn't have this problem...

 

[frank]

I think I would a battery minder to keep on top of things, but you would think that 3 days would not kill a battery if there wasn't a drain somewhere. it's good to hear about all the little quirks in the newer green car, so I know what to watch for.

 

[W2R]

Frank's Murano and especially my Venza would not be easy to jump start if the battery died while at home in a driveway, for all the reasons discussed.

Today Frank awakened to find the battery on his Murano was deader than a doornail, with no room to get my Venza anywhere close to jumpstart it. His back is out, and I may lift weights but I'm not strong enough to push the Murano by myself. We went to Autozone and got one of these Duralast jump-starters. If this works we will save the cost of a tow, and it will pay for itself in one usage. Wish us luck!

It has to charge for a while before we can use it, but I am hoping this will do the trick.

I am so glad this thread got us to thinking about batteries and what our options might be.

 

[kcowan]

It has to charge for a while before we can use it, but I am hoping this will do the trick...

My neighbour has one of those and we use it in a pinch to jump start our Escape because we park it at the end of the garage when we go south. It works great and does many starts before needing a charge.

 

[W2R]

It worked beautifully, kcowan! Started up instantly. This device is SO worth the money ($89.99+tax for the larger capacity that will jump-start a big SUV). Apparently it will hold its charge for 3 years, or one can leave it plugged in if desired.

IMO this is a "must have" for those of us with newer vehicles in which so many functions depend on the battery. It has already paid for itself and made a difficult situation so easy to handle.

 

[Texas Proud]

It worked beautifully, kcowan! Started up instantly. This device is SO worth the money ($89.99+tax for the larger capacity that will jump-start a big SUV). Apparently it will hold its charge for 3 years, or one can leave it plugged in if desired.

IMO this is a "must have" for those of us with newer vehicles in which so many functions depend on the battery. It has already paid for itself and made a difficult situation so easy to handle.

I did not have the brand you mentioned, but another... I found that it held its charge for about 3 months at most... and then you might not get a jump off of it...

Does it come with an air pump? Mine did... wish I had it the other day when I had a nail in the tire and it was to low to drive... had to change the tire



OK... looked it up... from Autozone description...

Features & Benefits
Jump starting power for your vehicle: 950 peak amps. 28 in. flexible cables with sure-grip clamps. Light-weight and portable for convenient use. Built-in charger that connects with any extension cord to charge internal battery. Cord not included. Stores up to 3 months without charging. Sealed battery means no dangerous acid leaks or spills. Easy to read LED indicators: indicates charged or charging, and state of internal battery. Sure-grip, jaw clamps: allows for quick and solid connections for top and side post batteries.

 

[W2R]

Does it come with an air pump? Mine did... wish I had it the other day when I had a nail in the tire and it was to low to drive... had to change the tire

That's terrific, Texas Proud! Actually we already have an air pump for the tires, that we had to purchase after Katrina due to all the roofing nails in the streets. Our air pump can be operated off the jump-starter so that is an added bonus.

It recharged after the one use in just a few minutes.

Texas Proud, you're right. Frank just re-read the instructions (before you posted the above, actually), and apparently it says 3 months, not 3 years. Oops! Still, that is a nice long time. While I was correcting my post, you edited yours as well to copy/paste material from the link I provided, to point out my error. GMTA

The point is, I am very pleased with the Duralast jump-starter and at $89.99, I think everyone with a new-ish car that depends on the battery so much (and especially everyone who posted on this thread and didn't mention such a device) ought to have one.

Something not in the description you gave above, is that apparently it has an internal circuit breaker.

 

[Texas Proud]

That's terrific, Texas Proud! Actually we already have an air pump for the tires, that we had to purchase after Katrina due to all the roofing nails in the streets. Our air pump can be operated off the jump-starter so that is an added bonus.

It recharged after the one use in just a few minutes.

Texas Proud, you're right. Frank just re-read the instructions (before you posted the above, actually), and apparently it says 3 months, not 3 years. Oops! Still, that is a nice long time. While I was correcting my post, you edited yours as well to copy/paste material from the link I provided, to point out my error. GMTA

The point is, I am very pleased with the Duralast jump-starter and at $89.99, I think everyone with a new-ish car that depends on the battery so much (and especially everyone who posted on this thread and didn't mention such a device) ought to have one.

Something not in the description you copy/pasted from the link I gave, is that apparently it has an internal circuit breaker.

But I would want one that stays in the car.... like the spare tire... it is no good to have one back home when you are 20 miles away and your battery is dead... and I will tell you from experience that taking it out and recharging it every 3 months (for 3 cars no less) is not a foregone conclusion...

All of mine died after about 2 or so years... they will not hold a charge. I could see that the charge they kept was less and less... it became more of a pain to keep them... they now are in the garage waiting to be disposed of properly... we just pay our insurance company for roadside assistance (which my wife had used a few times)...

 

[donheff]

I keep one of those jump starters in the trunk. I lost another to one of the many people who kept borrowing it.

 

[W2R]

From the initial post in this thread,

Yet another fun fact about a Prius with a dead 12V battery-- when the car's out of electricity, it won't unlatch the (electrically-interlocked) back hatch to enable access to the tool area in the spare-tire well. Guess where most drivers keep the jumper cables.

If you had a jump starter plugged in in your garage, you wouldn't need the jumper cables. It comes with its own. Hope this helps.

 

[W2R]

But I would want one that stays in the car.... like the spare tire... it is no good to have one back home when you are 20 miles away and your battery is dead... and I will tell you from experience that taking it out and recharging it every 3 months (for 3 cars no less) is not a foregone conclusion...

All of mine died after about 2 or so years... they will not hold a charge. I could see that the charge they kept was less and less... it became more of a pain to keep them... they now are in the garage waiting to be disposed of properly... we just pay our insurance company for roadside assistance (which my wife had used a few times)...

I think you are looking for a solution that won't require calling a friend to help you jump your car, or to give you a ride home to get your jump starter. Sorry that a jump starter is not the right solution for that problem. Roadside assistance sounds like a better fit.

In our case, we have been looking for an easy way to jump-start a car at home, where often people park in a garage or other place in which the car is not easily accessible for jump starting. The older I get, the less appealing it is to try to push a car uphill singlehandedly (even if the steering doesn't lock without the battery).

 

[travelover]

Here is what ya need - 25 foot long two gauge cables. Long enough to reach the front of a car and heavy enough to start it.

Amazon.com: Coleman Cable 08862 25-Foot Ultra-Heavy-Duty Truck and Auto Battery Booster Cables, 2-Gauge: Automotive

Now if you can just store them where they are available when the battery is dead.

 

[W2R]

Here is what ya need - 25 foot long two gauge cables. Long enough to reach the front of a car and heavy enough to start it.

Amazon.com: Coleman Cable 08862 25-Foot Ultra-Heavy-Duty Truck and Auto Battery Booster Cables, 2-Gauge: Automotive

Now if you can just store them where they are available when the battery is dead.

I guess I could find a place to store them (somewhere accessible with no battery) in my Venza, but storage at home would definitely be a challenge! I don't have a big house, and no garage (just a very very narrow driveway where I park my Venza, between my house and the fence). But that does look like a solution that would work and if I have the same troubles with the jumpstarter that Texas Proud had, I might even try it.

In the meantime, I think I'll just stick with the new jump-starter, that was cheaper than those cables anyway. That is so cool to learn about them on that link, though. Never knew they made jumper cables that long.

 

[Texas Proud]

I think you are looking for a solution that won't require calling a friend to help you jump your car, or to give you a ride home to get your jump starter. Sorry that a jump starter is not the right solution for that problem. Roadside assistance sounds like a better fit.

In our case, we have been looking for an easy way to jump-start a car at home, where often people park in a garage or other place in which the car is not easily accessible for jump starting. The older I get, the less appealing it is to try to push a car uphill singlehandedly (even if the steering doesn't lock without the battery).

Yes, that is what I wanted but was disappointed.... (well, except for the one time that I actually did use it and it worked)... the amount of time spent to keep them charged etc. compared to the number of times I have needed a jump just does not make sense....

I would much rather have one of these at home (which I do not, I have a 10 amp charger)...

Schumacher/50/10/2 Amp start-automatic battery charger with engine starter (SE-5212A) | Battery Charger | AutoZone.com

I also have jumper cables that are stupid proof.... they are the one where you connect to the jump car and the dead car and electronics make sure that the charge goes to the correct place... problem is that they do not go the full length of the car (found that out when I had to jump my mother)... here is a link...

Amazon.com: Michelin 5100 Smart Jumper Cables with Surge Protection: Automotive

 

[Texas Proud]

Here is what ya need - 25 foot long two gauge cables. Long enough to reach the front of a car and heavy enough to start it.

Amazon.com: Coleman Cable 08862 25-Foot Ultra-Heavy-Duty Truck and Auto Battery Booster Cables, 2-Gauge: Automotive

Now if you can just store them where they are available when the battery is dead.

Wish the Michelin cables were a bit longer... only need a couple more feet..

 

[travelover]

...........In the meantime, I think I'll just stick with the new jump-starter, that was cheaper than those cables anyway...........

The problem with the jump starters is that the batteries die after a couple of years. Your grandkids will still be using these jumper cables...

 

[W2R]

The problem with the jump starters is that the batteries die after a couple of years. Your grandkids will still be using these jumper cables...

I don't have any grandkids, at least not yet! But I see your point.

 

[Nords]

The problem with the jump starters is that the batteries die after a couple of years. Your grandkids will still be using these jumper cables...

By then we'll be back to [-]hand-cranking[/-] manually starting them...

 

[powerplay]

Interesting thread on the finer details of some of the newer cars. I'm taking notes or at least hope I can find this thread in the future if I need it.

I don't think I would want to get the jump starter and would probably opt for a charger and charge the battery for a few hours or overnight. A charger should be good for decades or at least the one my dad has continues to be after 40 some years.

Several years ago my pick-up battery was dead, dead, dead and I called AAA to come out even though I have jumper cables. Wow, was I ever glad I did. It started with the jump after a couple of tries, but wouldn't continue running. This happened about 4-5 times and then the tow truck driver left the jumper cables on for about 15 minutes while I kept my foot on the gas. After that it appeared to keep running and he suggested I let it run for an hour before shutting it off. So I went out for a drive. Unfortunately I got hit by a driver failing to notice the yield signs on the road he was on, but that is another story. After the repairs, the pu battery seems to be fine. So I don't mind paying the membership for AAA each year although I mostly get maps and tour guides from them.

 

[JakeBrake]

The problem with the jump starters is that the batteries die after a couple of years. Your grandkids will still be using these jumper cables...

+1

That's been my experience with those things. I put it in my trunk and forget about it and when I need it, it is dead as a hammer. Also, most of today's "maintenance free" batteries die suddenly with no warning. This is usually caused by an open cell in the battery. In this case, the battery power jump starters are useless but high quality jumper cables will probably work.

Two of my prized possessions are two sets of jumper cables I bought at Sears about 40 years ago. Back when you went to Sears for top quality merchandise.

The last dead battery I had was a couple of years ago. I had driven a long way so the battery was fully charged. I stopped at a gas station and turned off the engine while I filled the tank. When I tried to start the engine, the battery was dead. I was really lucky. As soon as I opened my hood an elderly gentleman wearing a WWII unit baseball cap and driving an old S10 Chevrolet pick up offered to help. We were able to jump start my pickup with my prized jumper cables and I made a run to the nearest Super Walmart. In my opinion Walmart batteries are as good as any.

 

[Texas Proud]

+1

That's been my experience with those things. I put it in my trunk and forget about it and when I need it, it is dead as a hammer. Also, most of today's "maintenance free" batteries die suddenly with no warning. This is usually caused by an open cell in the battery. In this case, the battery power jump starters are useless but high quality jumper cables will probably work.

Two of my prized possessions are two sets of jumper cables I bought at Sears about 40 years ago. Back when you went to Sears for top quality merchandise.

The last dead battery I had was a couple of years ago. I had driven a long way so the battery was fully charged. I stopped at a gas station and turned off the engine while I filled the tank. When I tried to start the engine, the battery was dead. I was really lucky. As soon as I opened my hood an elderly gentleman wearing a WWII unit baseball cap and driving an old S10 Chevrolet pick up offered to help. We were able to jump start my pickup with my prized jumper cables and I made a run to the nearest Super Walmart. In my opinion Walmart batteries are as good as any.

The one problem with the old style jumper cables is they can destroy your electronics if there is a spark when attaching them... I knew of a guy who had to replace some control unit for a few hundred dollars... that is why I went with the newer ones that prevent this from happening...

New cars have a lot more computers in them which can be fried if you are not careful and I would rather not take that chance either helping someone or needing help....

 

[travelover]

The one problem with the old style jumper cables is they can destroy your electronics if there is a spark when attaching them... I knew of a guy who had to replace some control unit for a few hundred dollars... that is why I went with the newer ones that prevent this from happening...

New cars have a lot more computers in them which can be fried if you are not careful and I would rather not take that chance either helping someone or needing help....

I don't understand. Don't the jumper packs spark, too?

 

[Texas Proud]

I don't understand. Don't the jumper packs spark, too?

I guess you have never jumped a car...

You are supposed to put the two clamps on the good battery.. then put the positive clamp on the bad battery... then the negative on some other part of the car (not the battery)... when you do this last one there is a surge and sometimes sparks (why you do not do it near the battery in case there are explosive fumes)...

This surge goes through your car system... back when there were no computers it was not a big deal... even today, most of the time it is not...

But say you do it a bit backwards and put the last clamp as the positive on the bad battery... big sparks can occur... and say that you bump it a few times before you get it clamped... many surges of power going through the system...

This can destroy any of your cars chips... on either car... not good to have to spend money fixing a blown chip helping someone jump their car...

I have known it to happen once and possibly a second time (they are not sure what caused it, but did jump somebody within a few days of the problem showing up)...

 

[travelover]

I guess you have never jumped a car...

You are supposed to put the two clamps on the good battery.. then put the positive clamp on the bad battery... then the negative on some other part of the car (not the battery)... when you do this last one there is a surge and sometimes sparks (why you do not do it near the battery in case there are explosive fumes)...

This surge goes through your car system... back when there were no computers it was not a big deal... even today, most of the time it is not...

But say you do it a bit backwards and put the last clamp as the positive on the bad battery... big sparks can occur... and say that you bump it a few times before you get it clamped... many surges of power going through the system...

This can destroy any of your cars chips... on either car... not good to have to spend money fixing a blown chip helping someone jump their car...

I have known it to happen once and possibly a second time (they are not sure what caused it, but did jump somebody within a few days of the problem showing up)...

Still confused. The jumper pack is nothing more than a portable battery. Some packs have a high current switch built in, but when you engage this switch, a current surge and probably internal spark occurs.

I've noticed that my owner's manual suggests turning on the blower fans of the two vehicles to protect the electronics. At any rate, I don't think that jumping a car battery with a second vehicle is an obsolete procedure

 

[Nords]

You are supposed to put the two clamps on the good battery.. then put the positive clamp on the bad battery... then the negative on some other part of the car (not the battery)... when you do this last one there is a surge and sometimes sparks (why you do not do it near the battery in case there are explosive fumes)...

I'd expect that the sparks are caused by whatever voltage difference exists between the negative clamp from the good car and the dead car's ground. Both cars are shut off so no (significant) current is flowing from either battery inside their vehicles. The negative clamp on the good car battery's negative terminal is already connected to the good car's ground by the good car's grounding cable off the negative battery terminal.

Once the other end of the negative cable clamps on the ground of the dead car, there's no more voltage difference between the cars. I guess you could attach both cars to grounding rods, but otherwise those eight rubber tires keep the cars ungrounded.

IIRC on my jumper cables it advises (1) positive terminal of good battery, (2) positive terminal of bad battery, (3) walk back over to the good car to connect the negative terminal of the good battery, (4) clamp the last negative to ground on the dead car.

I'd think if someone connected (1) and (3) first, and then started untangling the jumper cables, they'd inevitably encounter Murphy's Law of electricity and inadvertently bring the dangly ends of the cables in contact with each other, directly shorting across the good battery's terminals. For a blindingly brief and exciting flash, anyway.