High school ratings

[Ally]

We live where the high school is average, but did have AP classes. There is a very highly ranked high school here that most ambitious top students try to get into. We kept our two children at the regular high school, because they ended up with a much higher class rank, which earned them scholarships. Had they gone to the other school, they would have ranked lower and probably not received the scholarships. Plus, it's what they wanted to do.

They have both been very successful in life and I think they would have succeeded at most high schools. Sometimes moving them away from friends has a consequence, too.

 

[mokan]

Guessing you are in Louisiana

I wouldn't move just to get a better high school. There are too many other factors that affect the success of your kids.

I personally like smaller schools (student population). Your kids just get to do more. My oldest was in a large school in Texas - 1000 students in the graduating class. Lots of AP and extracurricular choices. However, unless you are absolutely outstanding, you never get to play 1st string on anything - whether football, tennis, debate or the science club. That affects mental outlook significantly. That same student in a smaller town gets to experience being successful. It doesn't matter that its in a smaller pool - it builds confidence.

If your child plans to go to a University in your state, then their chances of being accepted are almost guaranteed as long as they have reasonable credentials and graduate from a high school within the state. The presence of AP classes might/will matter for more prestigious national universities. However, as your research found .. lots of colleges/universities offer courses for HS students with credit. To me, that's better than a HS AP course.

OP, you mentioned "parish" and I believe Louisiana is the only state with parishes. My youngest son graduated from Mandeville, Louisiana HS. It's reputation was that it was one of the best Louisiana high schools. Our experience was that it was only average compared to the Texas schools. Even so, he's expecting to get his PhD in Psychology this May. High School matters a little bit but everything else matters much more.

 

[SilentWalker]

If your child plans to go to a University in your state, then their chances of being accepted are almost guaranteed as long as they have reasonable credentials and graduate from a high school within the state. The presence of AP classes might/will matter for more prestigious national universities. However, as your research found .. lots of colleges/universities offer courses for HS students with credit. To me, that's better than a HS AP course.

OP, you mentioned "parish" and I believe Louisiana is the only state with parishes. .

We live in Minnesota and I'm actually talking about our church parish, which runs a private catholic K-8 school. Parents and kids we know who are going to this school are speaking very highly about it so it seems like a good option at least for elementary school.

For high school,it is starting to look like our primary options will be staying here and kinds going to the public high school (6 to 12 grades) in our district, or moving couple of hours from our current home and going to a nationally highly ranked private prep-school. The latter option would obviously be an investment of at least $200k when including tuition and fees for two kids and the impact of higher cost of living, even if we moved back to LCOL area after both graduate high school.

One additional factor possibly supporting the private school route is that they also offer IB, which would make it much easier for my dual citizen kids to consider the option of going back to my birth country in Europe and take advantage for tuition free university education. This would be especially attractive if they chose something very costly like MD studies.

Other than just academics I am also a bit concerned about exposure to gangs and drugs in public schools. Not sure how worried about this should I be as we have zero experience from US schools at this point.

 

[CaliKid]

Can they take classes at a local junior college while in high school? Create their own AP class!?

 

[athena53]

I agree with those who say it depends a lot on the kids, and it may be too early to tell. My first husband and I bought a house in a pricey suburb (Bergen County, NJ) in a school district with a superb reputation. Our son had all the usual advantages: parents who valued education, talked with him, played with him, read to him, etc. In middle school he began to flounder. Didn't help that the marriage was breaking up (we divorced when he was 12) and things were stressful at home, of course, but he lost motivation, would say he didn't have any homework (OK, I should have been skeptical) and was falling behind. All they could do was wring their hands and hint that he might have ADD and medication would help. I gave up and sent him to NY Military Academy for HS, where he excelled in a structured environment with a consistent system of rewards for good behavior and consequences for breaking the rules. OK, he did have trouble creating that structure when he went off to college and it took a year of sessions with a good psychologist who helped him manage his ADD (including a couple of years on Adderall) but he graduated, found his niche in a good field (insurance claims adjusting) and I'm very proud of him.

Sooo... I ended up paying the property taxes for an "excellent" school system in addition to the equivalent of the price of a new SUV on his private HS education. Plenty of bright, motivated kids did very well in that public school system but mine did not. It sounds like you have a pretty good plan through middle school; maybe too early to make a decision to move till you see how the kids are doing where they are. I'd also be skeptical of some "excellence" measures. Many schools are so focused on having a maximum % of kids go onto higher education that they de-emphasize perfectly good jobs in the trades. They may tell you what % go to college but they can't tell you how many are there after one year!

 

[ivinsfan]

You do know that MN is an open enrollment school state? You are not forced to go to your local high school. You are free to apply to any high school that appeals to you.

You are not guaranteed admission, but if they have room for your kids, they must allow them into the school. Start looking at your neighboring schools districts and see what's out there.

 

[SilentWalker]

You do know that MN is an open enrollment school state? You are not forced to go to your local high school. You are free to apply to any high school that appeals to you.

Yes I am aware of that. I have a great school 55 miles from my town and the closest above average school is 43 miles from here. Not exactly a convenient drop-off. I wasn't kidding when I said that we live in a rural area.

 

[rayinpenn]

I believe that I’ve observed the simple magic formula aptitude +friends +school +desire.

I grew up a 50 years ago poorer than a church mouse in a better than average Middle class neighborhood. We were “house poor”. College funds: zero Aptitude: Yes, Desire: Uncertain Friends: All my friends were going. So I went, figured it out and went some more.

My Daughter(working on grad degree computer science): Great schools, strong desire and aptitude = Yes Closest Friends 1)Med school, 2)Seeking doctorate Microbiology.

My Son: Same great school, desire: Mediocre but improving Aptitude: Yes Friends: all in college
Maturity improving I’ve observed he’s beginning to figure it out.

In my opinion schools and competition set the stage for success.

 

[ivinsfan]

Yes I am aware of that. I have a great school 55 miles from my town and the closest above average school is 43 miles from here. Not exactly a convenient drop-off. I wasn't kidding when I said that we live in a rural area.

If you are that rural some high schools will have video AP classes or perhaps do an online hook-up to college courses. The key to start talking to the administration early so some of these things might be available to your own kids. Many completely rural schools have lower ranking simply because they cannot provide all the bells and whistles in HS....

Low rankings do not mean bad results...my youngest DD was in a class of 38 kids...a least 25% got admitted to the pretty competitive U of M with 3 of them getting into the Carlson School of Management which required a score of at least 28 on the ACT. They didn't have great schools 20 years ago but our district is ranked in the bottom half today.

I'm surprised you are that far from a CC...we are just about as rural as it gets and have a Uni..50 miles west of here, a uni 70 miles south of here and 50 miles North of here..4 year school. We also has a cc 14 miles from our mailbox.

I wouldn't move based on a school ranking IMO they don't tell the whole story.

 

[eytonxav]

Not an analytical ranking at all, but personally I believe what makes for a good HS or college is the caliber of other students attending the school. Unfortunately higher achieving students and better schools are often found in the more affluent communities. While not always the case, kids that are mixed in with a bunch of low achievers in a rural school might succumb to being pulled down by them and probably will not be challenged enough. Also, kiddos that have gone to less rigorous high schools and were top of the class, might be in for a shock when they arrive at college and discover they are average at best.

 

[ivinsfan]

Not an analytical ranking at all, but personally I believe what makes for a good HS or college is the caliber of other students attending the school. Unfortunately higher achieving students and better schools are often found in the more affluent communities. While not always the case, kids that are mixed in with a bunch of low achievers in a rural school might succumb to being pulled down by them and probably will not be challenged enough. Also, kiddos that have gone to less rigorous high schools and were top of the class, might be in for a shock when they arrive at college and discover they are average at best.

What, why would you call kids in rural schools a bunch of low achievers? Are you implying only stupid people live in the country? I find that offensive...

In fact the close knit family ties, availability of many close family members who care about the kids, in my area the lower divorce rate, many kids have a strong bond with their church families. Neighbors who are lifelong friends and more then neighbors. Coupled with the great opportunity to play sports, be in the class play, do band and choir. These things all help a kid live up to their potential. You can train a kid to give the right answers to be "high-achieving" academically but that doesn't mean they are well rounded, secure and ready to take on the world at 18.

College is a jumping off point for kids and the idea that they need to be at max potential from 7th grade on is kind of obnoxious.

 

[eytonxav]

What, why would you call kids in rural schools a bunch of low achievers? Are you implying only stupid people live in the country? I find that offensive...

In fact the close knit family ties, availability of many close family members who care about the kids, in my area the lower divorce rate, many kids have a strong bond with their church families. Neighbors who are lifelong friends and more then neighbors. Coupled with the great opportunity to play sports, be in the class play, do band and choir. These things all help a kid live up to their potential. You can train a kid to give the right answers to be "high-achieving" academically but that doesn't mean they are well rounded, secure and ready to take on the world at 18.

College is a jumping off point for kids and the idea that they need to be at max potential from 7th grade on is kind of obnoxious.

Hold your water, I did say "not always the case". Further, the OP asked for opinions and I am giving mine, so no need for you to be obnoxious

 

[MichaelB]

Let's remember we're among friends ..

 

[athena53]

Not an analytical ranking at all, but personally I believe what makes for a good HS or college is the caliber of other students attending the school.

I'd certainly put the HS my son would have attended in that category but it can be perilous for the middle 60%. The top 20% get the best teachers, AP courses, lots of attention. The bottom 20%, those who truly are at risk, got extra programs to support them. if you have a bright but unmotivated child (or one who's badly-organized), they may fall through the cracks. They're not smoking dope in the lav but they're also not excelling at anything so they get ignored.

 

[ivinsfan]

Hold your water, I did say "not always the case". Further, the OP asked for opinions and I am giving mine, so no need for you to be obnoxious

More then one poster here has "implied" that a reason rural schools score lower is that the kids come from families with less money and less involved parents. This isn't true.

I don't really consider it obnoxious to point out that this is a poor way to group people and parents. Rural school have low achievers just like great schools in good districts have low achievers. These decisions need to made by each family based on what works for their kids.


If you want to talk about PSEO options, AP offerings, special tutoring and stuff that's one thing. But quality of students gets into a pretty grey area...
I live in the same state as the OP and have a first hand knowledge of small rural school districts. I'm just going for some balance here. We have an excellent school system in this state and even the small districts do a pretty good job...

Hopefully some comments here will be beneficial to the OP and I won't say anymore about the quality of students issue.

 

[eytonxav]

I'd certainly put the HS my son would have attended in that category but it can be perilous for the middle 60%. The top 20% get the best teachers, AP courses, lots of attention. The bottom 20%, those who truly are at risk, got extra programs to support them. if you have a bright but unmotivated child (or one who's badly-organized), they may fall through the cracks. They're not smoking dope in the lav but they're also not excelling at anything so they get ignored.

That can happen, and many parents in my community sent their kids to private schools for that reason as those schools will not allow them to fall thru the cracks. The public HS my kids went to had graduating classes that were ~ 600 students. My son had very high SATs and a 97 average, but was only in the lower half of the top 50%. Based on his SATs he could have gone to UT-Austin and A&M, and ended up at A&M. He was able to participate in all the Pre-AP and AP classes in HS, buy where it was really difficult to compete was in sports, as he was just an average + athlete, so he got buried by the tough competition.

Now back to my original point, a lot of kids from smaller rural schools were admitted with poor SATs and little to no access to AP classes, but they graduated in the top 10% of their school so were admitted to these top Texas universities. Many (not all) of them struggled at those big tier 1 universities and ended up doing poorly or transferred. They were cream of the crop at their smaller rural schools, so that is the point I am trying to make. Again, certainly not the case for all students and all smaller rural schools.

 

[ncbill]

Good luck.

My public high school re-districted between my junior and senior years.

Went from having most of the students from some the wealthiest neighborhoods to having most students from some of the poorest neighborhoods in our city.

Which is why we've always had our kids at a private school.

With my spouse teaching there the cost was very reasonable.

It also allowed us to save $$$ in housing costs by not having to buy a home in a specific school district.

 

[rodi]

Some thoughts from a retired parent with two high school age kids.....

AP or weighted classes DO matter these days. They didn't when I went to school but many colleges are expecting GPAs above 4.0.... you can't do that without weighted grades that you get from AP, IB, and duel enrollment. This is different than when we were teenagers.

- my neighborhood school is top rated... Largely due to demographics of the families that can afford the neighborhood... UCSD professors, Engineers, biotech and pharma PhD types. I went to a baby shower a few years back and I was the only mom without a PhD. Smart educated parents are more likely to produce kids that score well on standardized tests.... It's just demographics.

That said, I send my kids to a school that gives everyone free lunch because it's so poor. Lots of English language Learners. But it's an IB school so the rigor of the courses is intense. There are actually three schools on one campus (the result of a Bill and Melinda Gates foundation experiment) and the IB school self selects the brightest kids. Since it's a magnet, there are kids from all over the district choosing to go there. Fortunately there are amazing teachers (mostly). Because if the self selection by the more academic kids to be in the IB school, once again demographics plays a role... Involved parents and motivated students who have chosen to be there.

My neighborhood friends thought I was nuts to send my kids to an urban inner city school. They may be right.

I would look for opportunities for weighted grades... The college enrollment would work as well as AP.

 

[RE2Boys]

I to am a retired parent with recently graduated HS students, now both in college. I wanted my boys to be surrounded with other kids that had similar priorities.......were the values of their friends reinforcing the values that I endeavored to teach my sons? We have a very good private school in the area and my sons visited, took the entrance exam, and was accepted. But he wanted to go the public school as that is where most of his friends were going. I relented when we found that the public school had what they called their "honors college" program and my son was willing to make the commitment (and many of his friends were also in the program). Expectations for these students was to take almost all honors classes, participation in school activities, service clubs/projects, leadership positions. The kid must make the commitment and apply for the program. Hindsight, it was the values of their friends and peers that reinforced our values that led to a successful outcome, the school provided the setting.

 

[ivinsfan]

That can happen, and many parents in my community sent their kids to private schools for that reason as those schools will not allow them to fall thru the cracks. The public HS my kids went to had graduating classes that were ~ 600 students. My son had very high SATs and a 97 average, but was only in the lower half of the top 50%. Based on his SATs he could have gone to UT-Austin and A&M, and ended up at A&M. He was able to participate in all the Pre-AP and AP classes in HS, buy where it was really difficult to compete was in sports, as he was just an average + athlete, so he got buried by the tough competition.

Now back to my original point, a lot of kids from smaller rural schools were admitted with poor SATs and little to no access to AP classes, but they graduated in the top 10% of their school so were admitted to these top Texas universities. Many (not all) of them struggled at those big tier 1 universities and ended up doing poorly or transferred. They were cream of the crop at their smaller rural schools, so that is the point I am trying to make. Again, certainly not the case for all students and all smaller rural schools.

I think colleges are moving away from the class rank admissions and in my mind that's a good thing. A kid admitted on the basis of class rank might not really be qualified for the school. My youngest and her class of 30 something is a good example..top 10% 3 kids, kids with ACT above the benchmark for a selective big10 school.. around 10 kids or the top third.

 

[SilentWalker]

... a lot of kids from smaller rural schools were admitted with poor SATs and little to no access to AP classes, but they graduated in the top 10% of their school so were admitted to these top Texas universities.

Forgive my total ignorance about the US school system (again), but if some universities admit students based on their class rankings, how is that applied to students coming from private prep schools? If only top 10% is admitted from those as well, wouldn't that totally defeat the entire prep-school concept?

 

[meierlde]

Forgive my total ignorance about the US school system (again), but if some universities admit students based on their class rankings, how is that applied to students coming from private prep schools? If only top 10% is admitted from those as well, wouldn't that totally defeat the entire prep-school concept?

This was put in as a measure to get some diversity at UT, the idea is that since some communities in Tx are largely minority it ensures that at least some minority students get in. (to avoid racial quotas at UT in particular).

It is designed to ensure that folks come from different environments, not all from the top prep schools in Houston, Dallas and the like.

Note these are automatic admits so the folks from prep schools outside the to 10% at the school have to compete with all other applicants (outside the top 10% of those at all texas High schools)

 

[SilentWalker]

I'm surprised you are that far from a CC...we are just about as rural as it gets and have a Uni..50 miles west of here, a uni 70 miles south of here and 50 miles North of here..4 year school. We also has a cc 14 miles from our mailbox.

Those distances I mentioned were to the closest above average and the closest top rated public high schools. The closest two community colleges are 30 and 49 miles from our town, a state college that is offering the dual credit program with my district high school is 50 miles from us and the closest UMN location is 77 miles from us. I am less than comfortable with the thought that my high school junior would start driving 100 mile round trips to the state college most days of the week. My understanding is that at least at this point most of the STEM related courses are not offered online. Distance learning options and technology, of course, are likely to improve before my kids reach that level.

BTW - I am glad to hear and it gives me comfort that you think our MN school system is good despite the highly variable ratings.

 

[eytonxav]

Forgive my total ignorance about the US school system (again), but if some universities admit students based on their class rankings, how is that applied to students coming from private prep schools? If only top 10% is admitted from those as well, wouldn't that totally defeat the entire prep-school concept?

The top 10% refers to the automatic admission policy for students ranked in the top 10% of their graduating class based on GPAs and applies only to Texas HS graduates. Of course many students are admitted outside this policy based on various other academic and personal criteria.
My knowledge on the auto admissions was a bit dated, and I think the current UT automatic admissions policy has been tightened to only the top 6%. That said, just because someone comes from a private school in Texas I do not think they would necessarily be precluded from the automatic admission policy. Here is a link with a little more info in you are interested:
https://texadmissions.com/blog/nonranking-high-schools-ut-austin