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Old 06-23-2010, 09:39 AM   #121
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I'd put this on a timeline- tell them it needs to be resolved by X day- and your position is that you either need to pick up paperwork for the car you are driving,or you will drop off the car, no hard feelings and sorry you couldn't make the deal work. Ask them to please let you know by the close of business the day before if you need to have someone meet you there to give you a ride home. Oh, and you won't be bringing your checkbook.

If it were me.... I would not do anything to push it along... as I said... I am on a LONG test drive.. I will keep it up as long as they want.

Not sure about insurance in other states, but here the owner of the car needs to provide that insurance... so it is the dealer that is responsible...
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Old 06-23-2010, 09:44 AM   #122
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... Mistakes in business happen all the time, the copier guy misquotes stuff, the computer tech misquotes the job, etc.
.....

I am glad to hear NOONE on here has ever made a mistake in their job................
I'm a very pro-business guy, but along with that I feel that businesses also have to take the responsibility.

Sure, we all make mistakes, but this is their job, they do it every day. A customer buys a car occasionally. I feel that puts the burden on the business to make it right. I really think they should eat it, figure out how the mistake happened, put in corrective action, apologize to the customer, and move on.

But, the reality is that splitting the difference is still a good deal for the OP (assuming the $30,000 was not a hard limit for him), and it seems like the least painful route. I'd still take it, but I'm not him. But I'd probably push pretty hard for getting it for $30,000 - it is their mistake.

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Old 06-23-2010, 09:51 AM   #123
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You are right, I have a close friend who owns a dealership and he has shown me what he makes on some cars. We've known each other since kindergarten so I'm sure he's being truthful.


And I have done tax returns of car dealerships and their owners... they are not hurting over this $1,000...


With the info they have now, knowing they will not get any more money.... the dealership is the one who should make the decision.... 1) we made a mistake and we will eat the loss... here is your paperwork 2) we made a mistake and we want the car back, here is a check for all your money.

There should be NO charges for miles etc. The dealership should take the loss on this as there is NO agreement that mileage would be paid. As I said... a long test drive...
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Old 06-23-2010, 09:58 AM   #124
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I mostly agree in principle, and this is where the OP is coming from, and I understand it. But the fact is, it looks like the OP isn't holding any cards here. He has a car in his physical possession, but he does not have the paperwork for it, so he can't title it etc. It's messy.

So he can fight it, but from what others have said he will probably lose more than he will gain by accepting the 'negotiated' price (which is still a 'good deal, from the info provided). I am one that stubbornly stands on principle, but even I recognize that at some point you are cutting off your nose to spite your face. IMO, the OP is at that point.

An analogy - Imagine you have done your research and the best price you can get on a specific model TV is $250. So you go to a store to purchase, and you see it for $200 - great! You get to the checkout counter, and they say, I'm sorry sir, we had a pricing error that we just corrected back to $250, but you can have the TV for $225.

$225 is better than you can get anywhere else, it's a good deal. You are not 'losing' $25 from the fleeting $200 price, you are 'winning' $25 from the real best $250 that you can get elsewhere.

I say take it and be happy.

edit/add - it isn't the same as a customer trying to re-negotiate the price because he had second thoughts - there is the very real issue of a mismatched VIN. There is a very real problem here for the OP.

-ERD50

ERD... don't know the laws in your state (unless you are living here ) but your TV analogy does not work... if they have the price at $200 IN THE STORE then they have to sell it for $200... they can quickly go back and tear up that sign, or reprice them, but they can not say you owe $225... that is 'bait and switch'... I have gotten a couple of good deals this way...
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Old 06-23-2010, 10:20 AM   #125
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I'm still waiting to hear back from the owner. He was suppost to get back to me by 10:00, its a little after that now.

They can sell me the car that I have at the agreed upon price, or they can take the car back and refund my money. If I have to pay more somewhere else I can live with that. I acted in good faith, they made a mistake. I am suprized that they even brought it to my attention that the cars were switched. I would have just said the correct paperwork is on the way, sorry for the typo.
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Old 06-23-2010, 10:26 AM   #126
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Just sit back and wait, my guess is you'll be getting the proper paperwork in the mail.
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Old 06-23-2010, 10:53 AM   #127
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I didn't see a blanket statement here that all car dealers are scum. Did someone really say that?

I personally would take the wrong car back and get the one with the right VIN number and go on with my life. I don't think it will be easy to get the $ back already paid for the better car just because of the necessary paperwork involved in cutting a check.

I hope it works out for you, DM.
Look over the many posts about carbuying on here. There is an overiding bias against the entire process involving dealerships. Pretty much everyone thinks that dealers rip everyone off and you should expect that. Having worked in a dealership many years ago, and having been in a position to deal with issues like dm faces, it is my opinion that the dealer is trying to be fair. Of course, dm could play hardball and do whatever he wants, but he is driving the car. A mistake was made, and I suppose dm and most here feel the dealer should eat the mistake. However, what if the mistake was $5000, or $10,000? Is the buyer ALWAYS right if a mistake is made? Something to think about..........

Right now, the dealer can't sell the car he still owns because the VIN is attached to another car. So, the dealer is screwed on that inventory, and dm didn't get the right car. I would tell the dealer to give me the correct car, at the correct price, and be done with it.life is too short..........
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Old 06-23-2010, 10:59 AM   #128
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I'm a very pro-business guy, but along with that I feel that businesses also have to take the responsibility.

Sure, we all make mistakes, but this is their job, they do it every day. A customer buys a car occasionally. I feel that puts the burden on the business to make it right. I really think they should eat it, figure out how the mistake happened, put in corrective action, apologize to the customer, and move on.

But, the reality is that splitting the difference is still a good deal for the OP (assuming the $30,000 was not a hard limit for him), and it seems like the least painful route. I'd still take it, but I'm not him. But I'd probably push pretty hard for getting it for $30,000 - it is their mistake.
-ERD50
The salesman is probably going to be fired. The dealer is going to eat some extent of the loss. Splitting the deal is a good deal. Markup on options is about 15%. This means that if the car is $2000 more, the dealer cost on this options is $1700. It could be a little more depending on the car. It's not like the dealer is marking up the options 500% like warranties or rustproofing and there's a lot of leeway.

The dealer will recapture his "loss" when the holdback check is cut, probably 90 days or so from now. Dealerships don't make a lot of money on new cars unless they are high end imports that are leased. They make a LOT of money on used cars, service and body shop work, and F&I products like credit life and disability, rustproofing, and warranties.........
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Old 06-23-2010, 11:10 AM   #129
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I would tell the dealer to give me the correct car, at the correct price, and be done with it.life is too short..........
The "correct" car is the car they showed him (he is driving it). And the "correct" price is the price they offered it to him at. They may have misunderstood what they were doing but there seems to be no dispute that they told him he could have the car he was driving for $30K. The dealer is an idiot to F this guy over for an extra $1K.

My bet is the dealer will cave - that would be the "correct" outcome. Wait for it.
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Old 06-23-2010, 11:14 AM   #130
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The "correct" car is the car they showed him (he is driving it). And the "correct" price is the price they offered it to him at. They may have misunderstood what they were doing but there seems to be no dispute that they told him he could have the car he was driving for $30K. The dealer is an idiot to F this guy over for an extra $1K.

My bet is the dealer will cave - that would be the "correct" outcome. Wait for it.
I disagree, but respect your position.
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Old 06-23-2010, 11:19 AM   #131
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Look over the many posts about carbuying on here. There is an overiding bias against the entire process involving dealerships. Pretty much everyone thinks that dealers rip everyone off and you should expect that.
I'm not seeing that at all and I just didn't want you to be making a blanket statement that we all think car dealers are scum since I know you hate blanket statements. One of my good friends is a car dealer actually.

As I said and you agree with, personally I would ask for the car that the paperwork does cover and be done with it.

Here's how DH and I negotiate for cars--we point out the one we like, the salesperson tells us how much it is, and we say okay and buy it. We've bought three cars this way from the same dealer (different salespersons).

What I've been looking for in this thread is anything DM (or the rest of us who buy cars who don't think car dealers are scum) could have done differently to have prevented the mistake. I don't see anything done wrong by DM.
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Old 06-23-2010, 11:41 AM   #132
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Look over the many posts about carbuying on here. There is an overiding bias against the entire process involving dealerships. Pretty much everyone thinks that dealers rip everyone off and you should expect that. Having worked in a dealership many years ago, and having been in a position to deal with issues like dm faces, it is my opinion that the dealer is trying to be fair. Of course, dm could play hardball and do whatever he wants, but he is driving the car. A mistake was made, and I suppose dm and most here feel the dealer should eat the mistake. However, what if the mistake was $5000, or $10,000? Is the buyer ALWAYS right if a mistake is made? Something to think about..........

Right now, the dealer can't sell the car he still owns because the VIN is attached to another car. So, the dealer is screwed on that inventory, and dm didn't get the right car. I would tell the dealer to give me the correct car, at the correct price, and be done with it.life is too short..........

No... I don't think that the dealership has to honor the price... they have the right to undo the deal... so if it is $10K, they can say 'please bring back the car'... or, as they have done, make a counter and say 'pay us and extra $5K and it is yours'.... but they don't seem to be doing that... they seem to want the deal, but only at the extra money. That deal has been refused... so what is left is eat the cost and send the proper paperwork or get the car back and the deal is off..



OHHH, had to edit... the problem with taking the 'other' car is that you might not have wanted to pay the $30K for THAT car... if you had known, you might have only paid $29K... and a deal would not have been done...
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Old 06-23-2010, 11:50 AM   #133
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This reminds me of this "game":
Ultimatum game - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If you have the car you want, and you paid $2000 less due to a mistake, the dealer is asking for $1000 to "split the difference". But you feel that is wrong, so instead of thinking to yourself, I'm getting $1000 *FREE* money.. you would rather spend $1000 EXTRA money to buy the car somewhere else.

If instead you want the real car you bought (the lower model) for what you really spent, because that is what you budgeted.. then take the car back and get the correct VIN car.


.......

BUT...

Here is where the TV/Car example and the above thoughts don't work. You can price a TV down to the last penny of what you will pay at "TV Dealers". So when you walked in you knew the TV would be $250...

In this case you don't know that you could/couldn't get the car for $1000 more, or $1000 less... imagine you take the car back, go to a different dealer, and get the exact same car for $29K instead...

So right now you don't know what you would pay for that model elsewhere.... Here is what I would do... drive into that "other dealer" (in a different car) and negotiate to buy the model of car you have right now... tell them dealer 'X' is willing to sell it to me for $31K. (or whatever it is you paid + the $1000 for the error). If they can beat that... take the current car back to the other dealer, get your money back... and go buy the car at the new dealer... if they don't, give the dealer the extra $1000 and be happy... you got the best deal possible. Treat this as a financial transaction, not an emotional one. Get the best deal you can, but don't act "I'm gonna screw the man cause he screwed me". Just get the best deal you can, being fair and honest about it.

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Old 06-23-2010, 11:52 AM   #134
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One of the things that get people boiling is having to go through 'the deal'... almost all the times I have had to deal with a car salesman, it has not been good. I remember going in once with my mom to a dealership that was advertising many $K of cars... and she liked one... I said, 'let's not waste time, what is your best deal'... and he quoted me sticker I said you are wasting my time and we left...

The times I have had good experiences (except one) has been dealing with the fleet people (credit union) or the internet guy... all have been... it is $500 or whatever over our cost and here is our cost... (of course, this does not include holdbacks etc... but that is another story)... so it is very easy to get the deal done... you pick the car you like, look at the paperwork and add the vig...


I will say... the one exception is when I had a deal... and went to pick up the car and the CU guy was packing his office... seems that the GM nixed the deal that was done because someone had come in and liked the car and was willing to pay 'sticker'... so my deal was not honored (who cares about what was signed etc... it was all done over the phone and with faxes... so not 'check').... funny thing is the guys credit fell through and the GM came running to me as I was leaving to try and get the deal back... sorry, no thanks...
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Old 06-23-2010, 11:55 AM   #135
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FinanceDude,
You go into a coin shop or stamp shop and you see a coin you like and it seems like a real good deal, because similar coins cost more than the dealer has his priced at, so you buy it. You ask for the dealer to send you the paperwork on the coin. When you get it you realize it is paperwork for a lesser coin. The dealer says 'Oh MY, I had the wrong coin in the display, you will have to pay me more if you want to keep the coin you bought.'

You think that is OK? You found, inspected, and purchased a product. I know the old saying 'Let the buyer beware', but the seller can just say 'Ooops' and the buyer should cave?
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Old 06-23-2010, 12:06 PM   #136
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If it was me, I would split the difference and then close the deal to avoid all the headache involved. But I wouldn't just get mad but get even . I don't mean getting even by throwing eggs at the dealership's window or anything, but if I had intended to use them for service and repair, I'd definitely go somewhere else. In addition, if a friend I knew was car shopping, I'd definitely say DON'T GO to that dealer. In otherwords, they would have surely lost me (and hopefully my friends) as a future customer.
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Old 06-23-2010, 12:14 PM   #137
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One of my good friends is a car dealer actually.
I nominate this for best stealth humor of the week.

Ha
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Old 06-23-2010, 12:39 PM   #138
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I didn't see a blanket statement here that all car dealers are scum. Did someone really say that?

I personally would take the wrong car back and get the one with the right VIN number and go on with my life. I don't think it will be easy to get the $ back already paid for the better car just because of the necessary paperwork involved in cutting a check.

I hope it works out for you, DM.
But he didn't buy that car or want that car. He never even saw that car. He got the right car, it is the VIN that is wrong.
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Old 06-23-2010, 12:42 PM   #139
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No... I don't think that the dealership has to honor the price... they have the right to undo the deal... so if it is $10K, they can say 'please bring back the car'... or, as they have done, make a counter and say 'pay us and extra $5K and it is yours'.... but they don't seem to be doing that... they seem to want the deal, but only at the extra money. That deal has been refused... so what is left is eat the cost and send the proper paperwork or get the car back and the deal is off..



OHHH, had to edit... the problem with taking the 'other' car is that you might not have wanted to pay the $30K for THAT car... if you had known, you might have only paid $29K... and a deal would not have been done...
The average total markup on a car is 8-12%, unless we are talking high margin high end imports. If dm negotiated well, he probably got the car at $100 over invoice or something. If the car he got that was wrong was priced $2000 higher, the dealer cost on that $2000 worth of options was about $1700 give or take. So the dealer is losing money on this deal. Again, I think the dealer is offering a fair deal, but dm can do what he wants............
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Old 06-23-2010, 12:45 PM   #140
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I will say... the one exception is when I had a deal... and went to pick up the car and the CU guy was packing his office... seems that the GM nixed the deal that was done because someone had come in and liked the car and was willing to pay 'sticker'... so my deal was not honored (who cares about what was signed etc... it was all done over the phone and with faxes... so not 'check').... funny thing is the guys credit fell through and the GM came running to me as I was leaving to try and get the deal back... sorry, no thanks...
Did you put a deposit on the car over the phone by credit card? If so, they should not have sold it. If not, you really didn't have anything but a handshake deal. One guy I know has been selling cars for 25 years. He said if he had a dollar for everytime a guy said over the phone "I'll take it", but never followed through, he would be retired a long time ago........
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