If you make a deal, do you stand by it?

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Emeritus said:
But my product is not "knowledge" as such. Knowledge is cheap, education is expensive. Education , it has been said , is "what is left after everything you learn has been forgotten".
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I think we ALL KNOW why education is expensive, and it has nothing to do with the brick and mortar of the universities.........it's firmly in the "other" category.........:LOL::whistle:
 
Emeritus said:
"Here's a news flash: Service departments don't really LIKE manufacturer's warranties.........typically the money the dealer gets to do warranty work contains the thinnest margins in the entire service department, save for loss-leader oil changes........"
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Wow, you quoted me, I am truly honored.........:) However, that statement was me providing internal insight on how the business is really run. If you don't like that business model, well there's not much you can do about it.

How about if I "dumb it down" a little? The service department of your local GM dealer makes MORE money on service work done on a car WITHOUT a GM warranty than one that has one. So, they can charge MORE to rebuild a transmission on a non-warranteed repair than being held to STRICT Chilton manual guides for GM warranty work. But, I bet you already knew all that, right? Well, maybe not..........
 
Few years back I wrote out a check for a new Altima and shortly after the sales manager came out and said a mistake was made and the vehicle had a protective type coating that was a $700 additional charge and they could take it off if I didn't want it. I said the car was sold as is and I wanted to talk to the dearlership owner, NOW. The guy couldn't back down fast enough. I despise car salesmen in general.
 
FinanceDude said:
Wow, you quoted me, I am truly honored.........:) However, that statement was me providing internal insight on how the business is really run. If you don't like that business model, well there's not much you can do about it.

How about if I "dumb it down" a little? The service department of your local GM dealer makes MORE money on service work done on a car WITHOUT a GM warranty than one that has one. So, they can charge MORE to rebuild a transmission on a non-warranteed repair than being held to STRICT Chilton manual guides for GM warranty work. But, I bet you already knew all that, right? Well, maybe not..........
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You don't need to dumb it down. I'm well aware that non warranty work is much more lucrative. I am perhaps the only lawyer in the USA who has been a full professor in both a Consumer Economics program and an Engineering school. I was in law school in D.C. working with the folks who wrote the Magnuson-Moss warranty act. It was written with auto dealers specifically in mind. Many have a "quasi-monopoly" in an area and therefore have to be closely regulated.

The structure of the act makes the manufacturer strictly liable for the failures of the dealer. That is why the dealer is not an"independent" operator. If the manufacturer in the warranty promises service by any dealer, and the dealer craps on the consumer because the consumer isn't "their" customer, the manufacturer is liable for damages plus attorneys fees. If we find a pattern or practice which the manufacturer tolerated, it gets even worse for them
 
FinanceDude said:
You know nothing about how a dealership works, yet cling to your internal world of how you think a dealership works.......amazing......:LOL: How about listening to a couple of us who actually WORKED in that industry, just a thought..........;)
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I've interviewed lots of lawbreakers in my time, from murderers to corporate executives. I study the internal incentives in firms to violate the law. Many industries operate in regular violation of the law and they get used to it until the violation becomes "normal". But that does not make it legal. Ive brought companies back into legal compliance after litigation or a disaster. I helped build buildings and inspected them. Ive trained doctors how to avoid malpractice litigation. Ive gone with a fine tooth comb through medical device manufacturers subject to the FDA.. I've interviewed pilots about autopilot design. I've even made my University comply with the law.

I know precisely what the law is that applies to auto dealerships and warranty obligations. If your claim is simply that their are un-hung scoundrels out there in dealerships I will certianly agree. All kinds of lawbreakers operate in dark sleazy corners and don't publish what they do. If a dealership had the cojones to post a sign describing how they treat "non customers" in accordance with some of the statements here I will be very surprised.
 
REWahoo said:
Is there nothing you have not done?
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This can't possibly be ER for him... if you add up all his years of experience in Consumer Protection, Engineering, Law, Education, Aviation, Food Science, Construction, Petroleum Safety, Medicine, Helath Services, Environmental Sciences, Automotive Supply Chain Management, Bakery Science, Pro-bono legal work, (not to mention his PhD from Dale Carnegie), etc. he has to be at least 150 years old and has already worked more years than any three of us put together...:LOL:
 
REWahoo said:
Is there nothing you have not done?
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I never learned to spell properly and I have lousy handwriting. I am severely acrophobic and clumsy . I could never do skydiving, riding in a helicopter, anything dealing with music or dance or other art, sport, or areas requiring physical coordination. I've never give an professional lecture or consulted in Alaska, Hawaii, Iowa, Maine, South Carolina, Arkansas or Mississippi.
Never been an Employee of Megacorp.
I am a terrible subordinate and keep a horribly messy office.

One of the advantages of a career as an academic is that you can get exposed to a very wide variety of problems all over the world.
 
Westernskies said:
This can't possibly be ER for him... if you add up all his years of experience in Consumer Protection, Engineering, Law, Education, Aviation, Food Science, Construction, Petroleum Safety, Medicine, Helath Services, Environmental Sciences, Automotive Supply Chain Management, Bakery Science, Pro-bono legal work, (not to mention his PhD from Dale Carnegie), etc. he has to be at least 150 years old and has already worked more years than any three of us put together...:LOL:
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It's a busy life. My field is law and technology. Every one of the areas you describe has a legal component, which is what I work on. I'm grading papers on emergency regulation of volcanic ash and the effect on engines, I have to meet my guest speaker from the FDA on drug safety regulation. I just submitted an abstract on the federal rules of evidence as applied to construction arson, and I'm preparing a lecture on product liability with a lawyer from a major European auto drive shaft manufacturer. I'm reviewing the class action on defective Chinese drywall for another paper, and comparing it to food safety regulation in China. None of these as such make my analysis better than anyone else's. Analysis stands on its own.

I'm always interested in other people's experiences. It teaches me a lot.
 
Emeritus said:
I never learned to spell properly and I have lousy handwriting. I am severely acrophobic and clumsy . I could never do skydiving, riding in a helicopter, anything dealing with music or dance or other art, sport, or areas requiring physical coordination. I've never give an professional lecture or consulted in Alaska, Hawaii, Iowa, Maine, South Carolina, Arkansas or Mississippi.
Never been an Employee of Megacorp.
I am a terrible subordinate and keep a horribly messy office.

One of the advantages of a career as an academic is that you can get exposed to a very wide variety of problems all over the world.
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Hey... I kind of like what you write... even though others do not...

I just don't have the same belief system that there are a lot of crooks out there... I think most are just honest people trying to do an honest job... and then someone writes a law saying you are doing it all wrong...

But we do have enough dishonest people in car dealerships which is why they get a bad rap... if the industry was more on the up and up, their rating would not be so bad...

Remember the Sears problem where they were selling stuff people did not need in order to get their sales goals:confused: I would think this happens a lot in car dealerships also...
 
Interesting to me that people are coming to the defense of car dealers in this case - thought they were pretty universally reviled.
 
calmloki said:
Interesting to me that people are coming to the defense of car dealers in this case - thought they were pretty universally reviled.
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It's been kinda like watching your mother-in-law drive off a cliff in your new Cadillac.
 
Emeritus said:
I was in law school in D.C. working with the folks who wrote the Magnuson-Moss warranty act. It was written with auto dealers specifically in mind. Many have a "quasi-monopoly" in an area and therefore have to be closely regulated.

The structure of the act makes the manufacturer strictly liable for the failures of the dealer. That is why the dealer is not an"independent" operator. If the manufacturer in the warranty promises service by any dealer, and the dealer craps on the consumer because the consumer isn't "their" customer, the manufacturer is liable for damages plus attorneys fees. If we find a pattern or practice which the manufacturer tolerated, it gets even worse for them
Click to expand...

I suppose you have a lot of real life experience like I do with the auto manufacturers screwing the dealers. The truth is, most manufacturers treat their dealers like crap, and screw them as much as they can. Chysler was notorius for this, sending the dealer 30-40 "extra" cars they didn't order in crappy colors and bad option packages, because they "made too many" and it was an "extra allocation".

You can quote all the legal facts you want, some of us were actually on the ground. The manufacturers try to pass the buck to the dealer all the time. It's like Chicago politics at its finest, shakedown after shakedown. Sure, a lot of dealers deserve the treatment they get, but the manufacturer has abandoned the customer of their car a LONG time ago. I was our dealer's point man for all issues that got elevated to manufacturer's reps, so I got to know them quite well. I bought a brand new Pontiac Grand Prix in 1996, and the transmission died at 27,000 miles, 3 months out of warranty, and the dealer and the FACTORY told me to pound sand. ONLY because I knew the rep was he able to get involved and get me some assistance. When I called Pontiac direct as a consumer to file a claim using their process, I was told "nothing could be done" and I was "on my own". So, don't pontificate about how the dealers suck and the factory is the good guy, that's not the case..........

FWIW, I filed a claim under the Magnuson-Moss Act 3 years ago. Its does not work as "nifty" as you think........but I am sure noone on here, you included wants to hear how that ordeal went down........:rolleyes:
 
Looks like I killed another thread!
 
calmloki said:
Interesting to me that people are coming to the defense of car dealers in this case - thought they were pretty universally reviled.
Click to expand...

It depends on who is attacking them. :)

Ha
 
Anyone remember when his wife got his password and gave us "The rest of the story" about John "Big Water" Galt?

Priceless. :)
 
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