Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 07-24-2011, 09:19 AM   #21
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Leonidas's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Where the stars at night are big and bright
Posts: 2,847
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walt34 View Post
Leonidas pretty much covered it all, but also consider the officer sees what might be a "rollin' wreck" - a LBYM car, brake light out, no current registration, probably no insurance, driving on a flat tire, he just about expects to smell weed or be bowled over by the alcohol fumes when the window rolls down.
Absolutely correct. If you need some arrest stats to keep the bosses off your tail, stop a car with multiple things going wrong and you almost certainly were going to score an arrest for as yet unseen issues. Good police work is all about being observant and being good at playing, "what's wrong with this picture?"
__________________

__________________
There is no pleasure in having nothing to do; the fun is having lots to do and not doing it. - Andrew Jackson
Leonidas is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 07-24-2011, 09:20 AM   #22
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 588
One character in my city makes a living by buying and selling junk, including junk cars. The city has running battles with him for buying property and loading it up with extreme hoarder's piles of junk. Bennie usually goes around town in a too small, second hand suit and an old, rusty, single speed bike.

I ran into Bennie one day in the courthouse and he was spitting mad at a policeman who cited him for driving a car without proper registration, or license tags. Having a little time and feeling that this show would be good, I stuck around. In front of the judge, he pulled out a wad of vehicle registrations that was two inches thick from his pocket and started haranguing the judge over the harassment because he had plenty of registrations and some of those numbers were "damned close" to the car's vin, and that police and city were picking on him.
__________________

__________________
devans0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2011, 09:39 AM   #23
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Naples
Posts: 2,161
The last time I was stopped by the police was an eye opener for me. That was ten years ago and I was in the wrong and deserved the ticket, but how it was handled opened my eyes. I was taught years ago that if you are stopped by the law, pull your car over and get out and go back to see the officer. WRONG! When I got out of my car, the officer jumped out of his, got down behind the door and shouted to me "GET BACK IN YOUR CAR!" Stupid me reaches for my wallet to get my drivers license and he screams at me again "PUT YOUR HANDS UP AND GET BACK IN YOUR CAR!" Seemed a little extreme for a slight traffic violation. I complied that time.

Come to find out, this is the new procedure. Trying to be respectful to the law doesn't cut it anymore. He didn't know who I was or my intentions. It's just the new way of them dealing with "suspected criminals". I could have gotten out, pulled a gun and opened fire on him.

He was ticked off and didn't treat me very nice during our "visit". Hope I never run into that situation again.
__________________
JOHNNIE36 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2011, 09:47 AM   #24
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,268
Quote:
Originally Posted by JOHNNIE36 View Post
The last time I was stopped by the police was an eye opener for me. That was ten years ago and I was in the wrong and deserved the ticket, but how it was handled opened my eyes. I was taught years ago that if you are stopped by the law, pull your car over and get out and go back to see the officer. WRONG! When I got out of my car, the officer jumped out of his, got down behind the door and shouted to me "GET BACK IN YOUR CAR!" Stupid me reaches for my wallet to get my drivers license and he screams at me again "PUT YOUR HANDS UP AND GET BACK IN YOUR CAR!" Seemed a little extreme for a slight traffic violation. I complied that time.

Come to find out, this is the new procedure. Trying to be respectful to the law doesn't cut it anymore. He didn't know who I was or my intentions. It's just the new way of them dealing with "suspected criminals". I could have gotten out, pulled a gun and opened fire on him.

He was ticked off and didn't treat me very nice during our "visit". Hope I never run into that situation again.
I'm sure that the cop's reaction seemed extreme from the point of view of an avg honest citizen (you). Try to look at it from the cop's point of view. As a cop myself, I can tell you that the best way to get killed is to let a motorist, who you have no idea who he is or what his intentions are, to walk up on you while you are still sitting in your car and have no way to retreat or to react quickly. The cop is a sitting duck in that situation.
__________________
utrecht is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2011, 09:48 AM   #25
Moderator
ziggy29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 15,613
Quote:
Originally Posted by JOHNNIE36 View Post
The last time I was stopped by the police was an eye opener for me. That was ten years ago and I was in the wrong and deserved the ticket, but how it was handled opened my eyes. I was taught years ago that if you are stopped by the law, pull your car over and get out and go back to see the officer.
I'd never heard of this. I was always taught you stay in the vehicle with your hands in plain sight, no more, no less.
__________________
"Hey, for every ten dollars, that's another hour that I have to be in the work place. That's an hour of my life. And my life is a very finite thing. I have only 'x' number of hours left before I'm dead. So how do I want to use these hours of my life? Do I want to use them just spending it on more crap and more stuff, or do I want to start getting a handle on it and using my life more intelligently?" -- Joe Dominguez (1938 - 1997)

RIP to Reemy, my avatar dog (2003 - 9/16/2017)
ziggy29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2011, 09:54 AM   #26
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 13,290
I will ask a question that is a bit different...

Is a traffic stop different than a stop when you are standing or walking on the street

IIRC, there was a Supreme Court ruling that said you did not have to give your identity to a police officer unless he told you why he was asking.... something in the unreasonable search and seizure vein...

I could be wrong as I read this many many years ago....
__________________
Texas Proud is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2011, 10:03 AM   #27
Moderator
Walt34's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Eastern WV Panhandle
Posts: 16,579
Quote:
Originally Posted by ziggy29 View Post
I'd never heard of this. I was always taught you stay in the vehicle with your hands in plain sight, no more, no less.
Exactly right. If you don't know why you're being stopped it may be that you/your car fit the description of someone who is a Bad Dude. I stopped more than one innocent person for exactly that reason. Check the DL, registration, "Sorry for the intrusion, have a nice day" and we're done.
__________________
I heard the call to do nothing. So I answered it.
Walt34 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2011, 10:11 AM   #28
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Naples
Posts: 2,161
Quote:
Originally Posted by ziggy29 View Post
I'd never heard of this. I was always taught you stay in the vehicle with your hands in plain sight, no more, no less.
ziggy, are you 75 years old, learned to drive in 1950, raised by a couple of Dutch law abiding citizens in a farming town of 2000 and taught to respect the law above all else? Sorry to disappoint you, but that is the way I was taught by my elders and not some driving school. I was not in tune with the modern way of doing things regarding the police. That incident ten years ago was probably the third or fourth time in my life I had been stopped. You live and learn.

I see it now on TV all the time and understand the reasoning, but to me this was something new.
__________________
JOHNNIE36 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2011, 10:14 AM   #29
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
donheff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 8,649
Quote:
Originally Posted by JOHNNIE36 View Post
I was taught years ago that if you are stopped by the law, pull your car over and get out and go back to see the officer. WRONG!
Quote:
Originally Posted by ziggy29 View Post
I'd never heard of this. I was always taught you stay in the vehicle with your hands in plain sight, no more, no less.
I was "taught" Johnnie's way years ago but, at least 30 years ago I did the supposed polite thing and got a similar reaction. On reflection, it is obvious that a police officer would not want you walking toward the car, especially reaching for your wallet.
__________________
Every man is, or hopes to be, an Idler. -- Samuel Johnson
donheff is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2011, 10:18 AM   #30
Moderator
Walt34's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Eastern WV Panhandle
Posts: 16,579
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Proud View Post
I will ask a question that is a bit different...

Is a traffic stop different than a stop when you are standing or walking on the street

IIRC, there was a Supreme Court ruling that said you did not have to give your identity to a police officer unless he told you why he was asking.... something in the unreasonable search and seizure vein...

I could be wrong as I read this many many years ago....
This gets into Fourth Amendment search & seizure case law, the history of which will fill a library.

The answer is the typical attorney's answer of "Well, it depends..." on the circumstances.

Generally, if the officer can articulate a valid reason for stopping the person, even if that person is entirely innocent of any wrongdoing or even thinking of wrongdoing, the officer can detain (but not arrest, and the distinction is a fine one) that person until the issue is resolved.

For a traffic stop it doesn't take much. Two miles over the speed limit is, in fact, a violation and if he's looking for a reason to stop a car that reason will satisfy the court (most of the time). On Friday and Saturday nights on the main road leading from the bars we'd stop cars for any reason we could think of looking for drunks. Given that at at the time the statistic was that one out of ten drivers was DWI - and that seemed about right - the effort was worthwhile. As for the other nine? "Just get the brake light bulb replaced, OK?" and we're done.

Tag light out? That'll work. Now, I never even thought of writing a ticket for just a tag light out, but in making the stop I'd find a lot of other stuff that was worth writing. One officer caught a guy wanted in Nevada for a homicide doing exactly that.
__________________
I heard the call to do nothing. So I answered it.
Walt34 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2011, 11:00 AM   #31
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
calmloki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Independence
Posts: 5,460
Quote:
Originally Posted by JOHNNIE36 View Post
ziggy, are you 75 years old, learned to drive in 1950, raised by a couple of Dutch law abiding citizens in a farming town of 2000 and taught to respect the law above all else? Sorry to disappoint you, but that is the way I was taught by my elders and not some driving school. I was not in tune with the modern way of doing things regarding the police. That incident ten years ago was probably the third or fourth time in my life I had been stopped. You live and learn.

I see it now on TV all the time and understand the reasoning, but to me this was something new.
+1

If you are sitting it is polite to stand when someone enters. If the cop has to get out of his warm dry car to stand in the rain it seemed polite to do so as well - also by getting out of the car you showed you had no weapon and your hands were clear, thus less fear for him walking up to someone whose actions in the car were concealed.

Now I stay in the car with my hands on top of the wheel. Think having a carry permit helps allay cop concerns as well - I've been vetted already so am not a total unknown.

Cops have ugly jobs that involve taking control of other people - would rather work in sewers than be a cop if those were the choices. Not going to get all moist and fawning over police work and the supposed danger though - police work isn't even in the top ten of most dangerous jobs:
The Most Dangerous Jobs in America - NYTimes.com

Per wrongful death and our litigious society the worker is now more important than doing the job and; as with all other jobs, cop personal safety is of more importance than "to protect and to serve".
__________________
calmloki is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2011, 11:13 AM   #32
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,049
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Proud View Post
I will ask a question that is a bit different...

Is a traffic stop different than a stop when you are standing or walking on the street

IIRC, there was a Supreme Court ruling that said you did not have to give your identity to a police officer unless he told you why he was asking.... something in the unreasonable search and seizure vein...

I could be wrong as I read this many many years ago....
It also depends on the state. For non-motorists, Texas does not have a "stop and ID" law.*

Reasonable suspicion is required to detain ("Am I free to leave?") an individual.*

The SCOTUS case only involved the name and not any written identification.* Some states have expanded that.


*You can beat the rap but you can't beat the ride.
__________________
eridanus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2011, 11:23 AM   #33
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Leonidas's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Where the stars at night are big and bright
Posts: 2,847
Quote:
Originally Posted by calmloki View Post
Not going to get all moist and fawning over police work and the supposed danger though - police work isn't even in the top ten of most dangerous jobs:
The way I prefer to think of those statistical comparisons is that the police have spent a lot of time and effort in the last 3-4 decades to learn from tragedies and be safer at the job. Not to mention all the technological improvements in safety equipment and emergency medicine that make it easier to survive bad things that happen.

Similar things have happened in the military. Combat is just as dangerous as it always has been, even more so, but compare the Vietnam conflict era soldier to our troops in Iraq and Afghanistan today. The equipment and training have greatly increased survivability and safety.

Both jobs are as hazardous as ever, but we have come a long way in how to counter the threat and survive what happens.
__________________
There is no pleasure in having nothing to do; the fun is having lots to do and not doing it. - Andrew Jackson
Leonidas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2011, 12:38 PM   #34
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
calmloki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Independence
Posts: 5,460
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leonidas View Post
The way I prefer to think of those statistical comparisons is that the police have spent a lot of time and effort in the last 3-4 decades to learn from tragedies and be safer at the job. Not to mention all the technological improvements in safety equipment and emergency medicine that make it easier to survive bad things that happen.

Similar things have happened in the military. Combat is just as dangerous as it always has been, even more so, but compare the Vietnam conflict era soldier to our troops in Iraq and Afghanistan today. The equipment and training have greatly increased survivability and safety.

Both jobs are as hazardous as ever, but we have come a long way in how to counter the threat and survive what happens.
Quite sure you are correct - think I just want soldiers and cops and firemen and religious leaders to be selfless heroes - greater than the people they are. Some are heroes; some want to serve; some mostly enjoy the esprit de corps or exercising control over other people or burning things or being thought to have a direct line to the big man.

People are people - good and bad. The clothes don't make the man.
__________________

__________________
calmloki is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
license plate, police, registration


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:02 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.