Was this proper police procedure?

[Texas Proud]

I will ask a question that is a bit different...

Is a traffic stop different than a stop when you are standing or walking on the street

IIRC, there was a Supreme Court ruling that said you did not have to give your identity to a police officer unless he told you why he was asking.... something in the unreasonable search and seizure vein...

I could be wrong as I read this many many years ago....

 

[Walt34]

I'd never heard of this. I was always taught you stay in the vehicle with your hands in plain sight, no more, no less.

Exactly right. If you don't know why you're being stopped it may be that you/your car fit the description of someone who is a Bad Dude. I stopped more than one innocent person for exactly that reason. Check the DL, registration, "Sorry for the intrusion, have a nice day" and we're done.

 

[JOHNNIE36]

I'd never heard of this. I was always taught you stay in the vehicle with your hands in plain sight, no more, no less.

ziggy, are you 75 years old, learned to drive in 1950, raised by a couple of Dutch law abiding citizens in a farming town of 2000 and taught to respect the law above all else? Sorry to disappoint you, but that is the way I was taught by my elders and not some driving school. I was not in tune with the modern way of doing things regarding the police. That incident ten years ago was probably the third or fourth time in my life I had been stopped. You live and learn.

I see it now on TV all the time and understand the reasoning, but to me this was something new.

 

[donheff]

I was taught years ago that if you are stopped by the law, pull your car over and get out and go back to see the officer. WRONG!

I'd never heard of this. I was always taught you stay in the vehicle with your hands in plain sight, no more, no less.

I was "taught" Johnnie's way years ago but, at least 30 years ago I did the supposed polite thing and got a similar reaction. On reflection, it is obvious that a police officer would not want you walking toward the car, especially reaching for your wallet.

 

[Walt34]

I will ask a question that is a bit different...

Is a traffic stop different than a stop when you are standing or walking on the street

IIRC, there was a Supreme Court ruling that said you did not have to give your identity to a police officer unless he told you why he was asking.... something in the unreasonable search and seizure vein...

I could be wrong as I read this many many years ago....

This gets into Fourth Amendment search & seizure case law, the history of which will fill a library.

The answer is the typical attorney's answer of "Well, it depends..." on the circumstances.

Generally, if the officer can articulate a valid reason for stopping the person, even if that person is entirely innocent of any wrongdoing or even thinking of wrongdoing, the officer can detain (but not arrest, and the distinction is a fine one) that person until the issue is resolved.

For a traffic stop it doesn't take much. Two miles over the speed limit is, in fact, a violation and if he's looking for a reason to stop a car that reason will satisfy the court (most of the time). On Friday and Saturday nights on the main road leading from the bars we'd stop cars for any reason we could think of looking for drunks. Given that at at the time the statistic was that one out of ten drivers was DWI - and that seemed about right - the effort was worthwhile. As for the other nine? "Just get the brake light bulb replaced, OK?" and we're done.

Tag light out? That'll work. Now, I never even thought of writing a ticket for just a tag light out, but in making the stop I'd find a lot of other stuff that was worth writing. One officer caught a guy wanted in Nevada for a homicide doing exactly that.

 

[calmloki]

ziggy, are you 75 years old, learned to drive in 1950, raised by a couple of Dutch law abiding citizens in a farming town of 2000 and taught to respect the law above all else? Sorry to disappoint you, but that is the way I was taught by my elders and not some driving school. I was not in tune with the modern way of doing things regarding the police. That incident ten years ago was probably the third or fourth time in my life I had been stopped. You live and learn.

I see it now on TV all the time and understand the reasoning, but to me this was something new.

+1

If you are sitting it is polite to stand when someone enters. If the cop has to get out of his warm dry car to stand in the rain it seemed polite to do so as well - also by getting out of the car you showed you had no weapon and your hands were clear, thus less fear for him walking up to someone whose actions in the car were concealed.

Now I stay in the car with my hands on top of the wheel. Think having a carry permit helps allay cop concerns as well - I've been vetted already so am not a total unknown.

Cops have ugly jobs that involve taking control of other people - would rather work in sewers than be a cop if those were the choices. Not going to get all moist and fawning over police work and the supposed danger though - police work isn't even in the top ten of most dangerous jobs:
The Most Dangerous Jobs in America - NYTimes.com

Per wrongful death and our litigious society the worker is now more important than doing the job and; as with all other jobs, cop personal safety is of more importance than "to protect and to serve".

 

[eridanus]

I will ask a question that is a bit different...

Is a traffic stop different than a stop when you are standing or walking on the street

IIRC, there was a Supreme Court ruling that said you did not have to give your identity to a police officer unless he told you why he was asking.... something in the unreasonable search and seizure vein...

I could be wrong as I read this many many years ago....

It also depends on the state. For non-motorists, Texas does not have a "stop and ID" law.*

Reasonable suspicion is required to detain ("Am I free to leave?") an individual.*

The SCOTUS case only involved the name and not any written identification.* Some states have expanded that.


*You can beat the rap but you can't beat the ride.

 

[Leonidas]

Not going to get all moist and fawning over police work and the supposed danger though - police work isn't even in the top ten of most dangerous jobs:

The way I prefer to think of those statistical comparisons is that the police have spent a lot of time and effort in the last 3-4 decades to learn from tragedies and be safer at the job. Not to mention all the technological improvements in safety equipment and emergency medicine that make it easier to survive bad things that happen.

Similar things have happened in the military. Combat is just as dangerous as it always has been, even more so, but compare the Vietnam conflict era soldier to our troops in Iraq and Afghanistan today. The equipment and training have greatly increased survivability and safety.

Both jobs are as hazardous as ever, but we have come a long way in how to counter the threat and survive what happens.

 

[calmloki]

The way I prefer to think of those statistical comparisons is that the police have spent a lot of time and effort in the last 3-4 decades to learn from tragedies and be safer at the job. Not to mention all the technological improvements in safety equipment and emergency medicine that make it easier to survive bad things that happen.

Similar things have happened in the military. Combat is just as dangerous as it always has been, even more so, but compare the Vietnam conflict era soldier to our troops in Iraq and Afghanistan today. The equipment and training have greatly increased survivability and safety.

Both jobs are as hazardous as ever, but we have come a long way in how to counter the threat and survive what happens.

Quite sure you are correct - think I just want soldiers and cops and firemen and religious leaders to be selfless heroes - greater than the people they are. Some are heroes; some want to serve; some mostly enjoy the esprit de corps or exercising control over other people or burning things or being thought to have a direct line to the big man.

People are people - good and bad. The clothes don't make the man.