retire abroad

[CuppaJoe]

You seem to prefer to spend your time posting on the internet (an average of 9.35 posts per day on this forum). Plus, at age 55 you are already longing to play the role of a grandfather so you can spend time with your grandchildren. If something were to happen to your wife, don't you think you might be a little lonely with just you and the internet all day?....

If this is meant to address W2R, I'm a little shocked at your lack of knowledge of her situation, since she is probably one of the most well-known people on this forum. Sorry for the interruption, back to traveling abroad. Carry on.

 

[kevink]

Getting back to the original topic of health care abroad: my wife and I are relatively new full-time expats living in the Lake Chapala area of Mexico.

Affordable medical and dental care were, and are, significant factors in our decision to move here. We are relatively young and healthy, but not wealthy, and just the premiums for the high-deductible HSA plan we had the in the U.S. left us with virtually no money left over for actual health care. The way I figure it, living back home we were always one major accident or serious diagnosis away from having to relocate here or to Thailand for care anyway.

Having quick access (within a day, usually) to skilled, English-speaking doctors is great. Knowing the cost, up front, and being able to afford it out-of-pocket is even better. A recent case in point: I had a pretty serious accident just over a month ago, when I fell face first on my chin and nearly bit all the way through my lower lip on impact. Emergency visits to the doctor, the dental surgeon and the X-ray lab, plus a boatload of antibiotics, pain killers and two follow-up visits cost me $88, total. Meanwhile the deductible on our old policy stateside was $5000 - each. I guess the "good" news is a visit to the ER would have taken care of that......

We were just back in the U.S. visiting family and I came down with a minor bug, and as we no longer have U.S. insurance my first thought was "I'd better get back to Mexico where I can afford to be sick." It is a sad commentary on our broken health care system. At some point, if our portfolio recovers sufficiently and other things come together we'd love to return to the U.S. as home base. What happens with the health care system seems likely to make that decision for us.


Kevin

 

[Sarah in SC]

Great, the information I provide does not apply to her.

You seem to prefer to spend your time posting on the internet (an average of 9.35 posts per day on this forum). Plus, at age 55 you are already longing to play the role of a grandfather so you can spend time with your grandchildren. If something were to happen to your wife, don't you think you might be a little lonely with just you and the internet all day? Is it possible you might want to come and take a look in Asia to see what the situation is? It can't hurt. We still have the internet here and Asian wives do not complain about how much time we spend on the internet!

Of course not. Young women in America don't want anything to do with men more than 10 or perhaps 20 years their senior, and any girl who had this kind of ambition and drive would not be interested in an older man either.

Because W2R might be too polite to comment back, first, she's a WOMAN, and the reason she posts a lot on the forum is because she (LIKE ME) is a MODERATOR. We spend a lot of time posting about problems and spammers, keeping the housekeeping up for members to enjoy spending time here.

And I am going to point out the one line in your entire post that sums up how you feel about the "equal footing" <snort> you believe there to be between young desperate women and foolish old men.

Asian wives do not complain about how much time we spend on the internet!

Now I think it would be good for us to discuss things related to retiring abroad that don't involve hooking up. Thanks Kevink for getting us back on topic with a nice informative post. And to Billy (Akaisha) for your good link. Carry on.

 

[CuppaJoe]

Sarah in SC, I, for one, continue to appreciate your efforts as a moderator.

Oh and I see Sarah is too polite to tell a woman's real age, I refer Hobo the W2R's more than 9,000 posts to extract that information. Hint: she is not age 55.

 

[Bestwifeever]

Getting back to the original topic of health care abroad: my wife and I are relatively new full-time expats living in the Lake Chapala area of Mexico.

Affordable medical and dental care were, and are, significant factors in our decision to move here. We are relatively young and healthy, but not wealthy, and just the premiums for the high-deductible HSA plan we had the in the U.S. left us with virtually no money left over for actual health care. (snip) ...

A recent case in point: I had a pretty serious accident just over a month ago, when I fell face first on my chin and nearly bit all the way through my lower lip on impact. Emergency visits to the doctor, the dental surgeon and the X-ray lab, plus a boatload of antibiotics, pain killers and two follow-up visits cost me $88, total. (snip)

Kevin

Kevin, thanks for posting this. It's really helpful to read a real-life example. Do you have insurance in Mexico? Or is medical care subsidized by taxes?

 

[tomintucson]

Anyone object to this?

Off-topic, but sort of on-topic, depending on which topic one assigns to this thread...a recent experience of mine may fly in the face of some of the generalizations being made here not only of Western men, but also of Asian women. I just spent two months in the Thai-Burma border area, mostly in Mae Sot. While most of my contact with the area's lovely females were with Burmese women, I had the pleasure of meeting a wonderful Thai woman about ten days before my scheduled return to the States. We got along well (her English is outstanding), and had about half a dozen dates in the short time we had to get to know each other. I'm a fifty-year old retiree. I'm healthy, very active, pretty fit, and have many years of experience dealing with people from cultures vastly different from my own.

My new friend is a real Thai lady. She's not the type of whom one would inquire into her age. My best guess, given that she's a young-looking Asian woman, would be that she is between 37 and 43. She's university-educated, never married, and owns two businesses. One is the nice coffee house in Mae Sot where we met (they cater almost exclusively to Thai customers- I just happened in, as is my habit.) Her other business is a bakery and cafe in Bangladesh, where she spends most of her time.

By local standards, I'm filthy rich, but she has absolutely no use for my money, nor does she seem impressed by it. She has a nice new Toyota truck, dresses to the nines, and her family is currently building a hotel on vacant land next to the condo complex they own. So yes, she's a wealthy Thai woman, at least by Thai standards. And as a proper lady, she doesn't just jump into bed with some guy she hardly knows (me), and who will only be in town for a little while longer. Since she's well-known in the city of Mae Sot, word quickly got back to her family that she was being seen in the company of a foreigner. It's a traditional society. For "nice girls", as they're known, this is kind of a big deal, being seen with me.

So, half a dozen dates, no sex, and a seeming desire on both of our parts to cross paths again. We keep in touch by occasional emails. I may be back in the region in the next few months. I was most impressed by her. She's smart, sassy and fun. And not to be trifled with. Drop-dead gorgeous as well. Sigh.

Tom

 

[REWahoo]

Tom, certainly there are exceptions to all generalizations and your situation certainly appears to be just that.

I don't recall you touting the opportunity and 'cultural acceptance' of young female companionship as one of the many advantages of US men moving abroad to retire. That, I believe, places your situation in an entirely different category.

 

[kevink]

Thanks, Bestwifeever, for your comments and question:

"Kevin, thanks for posting this. It's really helpful to read a real-life example. Do you have insurance in Mexico? Or is medical care subsidized by taxes?"

We are in the process of applying for the government-run insurance here, called IMSS. It will take two years to kick in fully, and excludes pre-existing conditions but is otherwise full coverage - for less than $400 a year total for the two of us. Most people we know who go this route use their IMSS coverage only for emergencies and pay out-of-pocket for routine care, which gives you free choice of doctors and ability to get in immediately (with IMSS you go to a clinic, waits can be long, and you need fluent Spanish to communicate).

Doctors here make good money by local standards but far, far less than in the U.S., as you'd expect. They're also not faced with the huge liability/litigation issues like back home. As Billy and Akaisha (heroes of ours - we owe them a great deal!) make clear in their posts, the whole "vibe" of medical care here is so different. Doctors have more time to spend with you, you see a doctor, first, not a nurse or PA. A local doctor here we know is typical: he's easy to see, and the rate for either a house call or office visit is the same: 120 pesos (less than $10 at current exchange rates). My own doctor charges almost twice that, but in addition to being an MD he has 36 years of experience doing Chinese medicine, especially acupuncture.

Now this area where we live is one of the largest and most established gringo expat communities in the world, so all of this infrastructure has come about over several decades. Other gringo havens, like San Miguel de Allende and some of the beach resorts (e.g. Puerto Vallarta) also have English-speaking doctors who cater to foreigners, but I wouldn't want anyone to think this is the case throughout Mexico, which is a poor country with many problems. For us as expats the prices I mentioned seem cheap, but they are out-of-reach for many Mexicans.

Kevin

 

[kevink]

No sooner did I post this than a friend sent me the link to this article from an Arizona paper:

Mexicare: $250 a year covers it all

It paints an accurate picture of the costs and issues. Needless to say I am following the health care reform debate in the U.S. closely!

 

[Ed_The_Gypsy]

My own doctor charges almost twice that, but in addition to being an MD he has 36 years of experience doing Chinese medicine, especially acupuncture.

Kevin,

You are not filling me with confidence. Are you from California by any chance?

 

[kevink]

No such luck, Colorado, but we do the crystal gazing thing almost as well as the Land of Fruits and Nuts. Seriously though, I respect and value allopathic medicine and wouldn't have anything else to deal with acute injury or illness, but for chronic illness and prevention thereof I don't think that ignoring several thousand years of Chinese and Indian medicine is particularly savvy. We're lucky to have such choices.

K.

 

[Bestwifeever]

DH's dr. in the Chicago area at a huge traditional medical center is an MD who is also trained in so-called Oriental medicine--I think it's out there in a lot more places than one might suspect. DH has never had a condition that his dr. thinks could be better addressed by it, though. And an office visit costs a lot more pesos here of course.

This quote from Kevin's link is interesting to me, as I wondered what the reaction to US natives enjoying reasonably priced health care in Mexico (or any other country, really) would be. Paying out-of-pocket for routine care would not put a strain on Mexico's IMSS system, though.

American enrollees have generated some resentment among Mexican taxpayers who have been paying into the system for decades, and IMSS officials say they don't want to be overrun by bargain-hunting foreigners.

 

[Ed_The_Gypsy]

K,

I tink you been sittin' too close to John Denver's campfire.

 

[chinaco]

Trek
RE: the age and money disparities between the locals and the foreigners who move in to their country, I caught holy hell for writing these pieces about just this topic. See Thai Wives and Thai Wives Revisited.

Akaisha
Author, The Adventurer's Guide to Early Retirement

This type of situation seems to be frowned upon by many. I think most people size them up in a negative way. It happens in America all the time except the amount of Money, celebrity status, or power are much more magnified.

I think some must view it as exploitation if it happens in a poor country. I suspect that each party understands exactly what they are doing (assuming it is not a scam of some sort).

The fact that the two of them are entering into a marriage would seem to show some commitment. Let's face it... if it were just about sex, a marriage would not have to occur.

If they are happy, good for them.

 

[chinaco]

...
This quote from Kevin's link is interesting to me, as I wondered what the reaction to US natives enjoying reasonably priced health care in Mexico (or any other country, really) would be. Paying out-of-pocket for routine care would not put a strain on Mexico's IMSS system, though.

So Mx officials are concerned about 80,000 gringos using that system. They probably pay more money into their economy than the average citizen... plus they are there legally and pay for the service.

I wonder if they have consider the medical cost of the US to the 12M Illegals that come here to work.

I know for a fact (because I worked in the system... unless things have changed), that many illegals get free medical services via Medicaid. This was a number of years ago... I would be very surprised if it has changed. At the time state medicaid (in some states) employees were told "not to question" their status... enroll them and provide services.

 

[Billy]

No such luck, Colorado, but we do the crystal gazing thing almost as well as the Land of Fruits and Nuts. Seriously though, I respect and value allopathic medicine and wouldn't have anything else to deal with acute injury or illness, but for chronic illness and prevention thereof I don't think that ignoring several thousand years of Chinese and Indian medicine is particularly savvy. We're lucky to have such choices.

Kevin I agree with you on this. One of the draws to going to Thailand is the choice of medical care available.

If by chance you are a person whose body doesn’t take well to allopathic medicines and you are prone to side effects, then acupuncture, Chinese herbs, Ayurvedic approaches, massage and so on is a real blessing.

When we visited the Cu Chi Tunnels in Vietnam, our Vietnamese tour guide explained to us how surgeries were performed underground in the the tunnels themselves using acupuncture to stop the bleeding and ease the pain. They had a full trauma center running there underground with very little antibiotics, morphine or what have you.

Chinaco

The fact that the two of them are entering into a marriage would seem to show some commitment. Let's face it... if it were just about sex, a marriage would not have to occur. If they are happy, good for them.

　
Completely agree. I am mesmerized by the Asian beauties. It’s not hard to see why someone would want to enter into a relationship with them. There are pros and cons to the situation, no doubt.

Best,

Akaisha
Author, The Adventurer’s Guide to Early Retirement
　

 

[haha]

I think people should lay off Hobo.

Don't be so sure that there are no people who are interested in what he has to say. He is very articulate, and he pointed out the obvious fact that he is making a big commitment- like fathering children with his wife or planning to do so.

What is a man supposed to do if he is 50 and has no children but wants some? Marry a 50 year old US woman and spend years and $100,000 at fertility clinics?
Sounds like a lot of fun.

Ha

 

[Bestwifeever]

I think Hobo has children already? He refers to his 30 year old daughter in this thread.

 

[haha]

I think Hobo has children already? He refers to his 30 year old daughter in this thread.

Well, not to get too far into this, I just assumed that it was the overall topic that was creating controversy, not just Hobo who as far as I can tell is a very polite poster who has information to share and is not selling anything.

Anyway, having children already doesn't disqualify one from having more. Look at Brangelina!

There is an occasional poster on this board (dOUG) who moved to DR and married a young Dominican and had a child. Prior to this he was a virgin at fatherhood as best I can remember.

Ha

 

[Billy]

Just FYI, I'm not on Hobo's case. Just because some women run concurrent boyfriends without telling them doesn't mean that is what everyone does.

As in anything in life, one has to make their own decisions. Having traveled the world for almost 2 decades, we have seen countless older men marry younger locals. Their lives don't necessarily turn into instant bliss, and I respect the fact that they have worked it out one way or another.

People are where they are for lots of reasons - most of which we have no clue. When these December - May romances produce children then the father supports them, raises them, pays for their education, medical and so on, not to mention doing all the family things that these 3rd world families love (and 'require' them) to do.

We talk about when a man marries a local girl, he is actually marrying the whole family. In Thailand, the man is expected to support the grandparents, even to the point of buying a house, some sort of vehicle, pay for operations and so on. It's not like he gets away with something. It's a commitment for sure. It's something he has to consider.

Hey, whatever works.

All the best,
Akaisha
Author, The Adventurer's Guide to Early Retirement

 

[Traveler987]

Once more, I insist, come to Spain. Our public system of health care and medical services covers most everyone. Plenty of Anglos retiring here.

I'd love to move to Spain, but how does a US citizen do it? Aren't there high income requirements for "retirees" and is there a "retirement visa"? Would US citizens living in Spain as retirees qualify for the public system of health care?

 

[george76]

No sooner did I post this than a friend sent me the link to this article from an Arizona paper:

Mexicare: $250 a year covers it all

It paints an accurate picture of the costs and issues. Needless to say I am following the health care reform debate in the U.S. closely!

Thanks for the link. The article said the following about pre-existing conditions:
Still, the system has flaws: The facilities aren't cutting edge, pre-existing conditions aren't covered for the first two years, and some newer medicines are not free.

Do you know if this mean that pre-existing conditions are indeed covered after two years?

 

[Stevewc]

Quote:
Originally Posted by kevink
No sooner did I post this than a friend sent me the link to this article from an Arizona paper:

Mexicare: $250 a year covers it all

It paints an accurate picture of the costs and issues. Needless to say I am following the health care reform debate in the U.S. closely!



I'm watching the health care debate closely, my self.
I wrote a couple of my Senators this morning.
I came up with some pretty good one liners for them, I think?
I've been seeing people with signs about pulling the plug on granny and such.

So I wrote things like:

Pull the plug on insurance companies.
Pull the plug on the lobbyist.
Pull the plug on any body that does not support serious reform.

I really would like to see some competition from across State lines.
Blue cross has over 80% of the business in my State.
Basically no competition to speak of.
Most of this is with tongue in cheek, but I thought it might get their attention.
Steve

PS. None of these Senators are doing much to support or help in my opinion. I actually am going against the grain with the folks I voted for.
But that vote could change in the up coming elections.

 

[kcowan]

There is an extensive discussion of Mexico's voluntary medicare insurance system (IMSS) here, including personal experiences from a couple of US expats:
The Puerto Vallarta Scene Forum • View topic - IMSS info

 

[vicente solano]

I'd love to move to Spain, but how does a US citizen do it? Aren't there high income requirements for "retirees" and is there a "retirement visa"? Would US citizens living in Spain as retirees qualify for the public system of health care?

Traveler: To my knowledge there´s no specified amount of income required, other than an assurance that the retiree can justify the means needed in case of forceful return to home country. You´ll need a visa. Our public health system can´t be all that hard to obtain if you bear in mind the amount of foreign retirees we have. But I think that you´re not being a national of EEC it´ll all be about reciprocity treaties between our nations.