Flying: A Necessary Evil

[robnplunder]

You have to understand the aviation criteria.

1. A landing you can walk away from is a good landing.

2. A landing after which they can use the airplane again is a great landing.

I wonder what would they call a landing which 20 passengers ended up in hospital as in this case? Landing with style?

 

[Meadbh]

I'd guess not since the engines will have to be overhauled and that is half the value of the airplane. Jet engines are extremely expensive. The reliability they are known for does not come cheap.

But that's a guess, I really have no idea.

The engines are beyond overhauling. One of them fell off and the other is in bits.

The seats might be worth something!

 

[Bestwifeever]

There could be hidden structural damage to the plane that I imagine would preclude the risk of it being put back into passenger service even if it could be repaired.

 

[Walt34]

There could be hidden structural damage to the plane that I imagine would preclude the risk of it being put back into passenger service even if it could be repaired.

That's the reason it is probably junk. The required inspections mean they'd have to all but disassemble the entire airplane and each engine, inspect each part, and reassemble it. By the time that's done a new aircraft is cheaper.

 

[Texas Proud]

The article mentions about them dismantling the plane... so I doubt it is going to fly again...

 

[Meadbh]

There could be hidden structural damage to the plane that I imagine would preclude the risk of it being put back into passenger service even if it could be repaired.

Exactly. I wouldn't be too confident flying in that airframe after it bellyflopped onto the runway and scraped it for 1100 metres.

OTOH, Air Canada did not scrap the Gimli Glider, but kept it in service for another 25 years. But it was not so damaged as this plane is.

Gimli Glider - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[dm]

ER gave me the time to get my pilots license and my own plane. I can beat the airlines on most of the trips I take when you consider I am 5 min from my hangar and can be airborne soon after. Also most towns have a small airport that I can land at. A 17 hour drive which would mean staying overnight, is 6 hours flying with a stop half way for a break.

I flew down to the keys yesterday just because I could, it took me about 1 1/2 hours compared to a 4-5 hour drive.

We love flying our own plane. But we don't mess with the weather. But being retired we can pick when we go.

 

[dm]

We just pull the plane out and load whatever we want. Then put the car in the hangar and go.

 

[CoolChange]

Very Cool Mode of Transport

We just pull the plane out and load whatever we want. Then put the car in the hangar and go.

I hope you are proud of yourself; posts like these drive people like me to OMY syndrome:

• X more months to afford my license
• Y months to buy the plane
• Z months for my own hanger
• Then, ongoing insurance, fuel, occasional overhauls, etc.

Yes, I have always wanted this; but, I am not sure it is worth the additional time at my desk. So, I am probably just going to see if the market is good enough to me that I can do this some day. Until then, I do have well over 1MM frequent flier miles to spend getting off the ground.

 

[tulak]

We just pull the plane out and load whatever we want. Then put the car in the hangar and go.

As DIY as I am, this is one that I'll leave for the professionals.

I'm curious, what do you do for transportation after you arrive? Are there car rental agencies at smaller airports?

 

[dm]

I hope you are proud of yourself; posts like these drive people like me to OMY syndrome:

• X more months to afford my license
• Y months to buy the plane
• Z months for my own hanger
• Then, ongoing insurance, fuel, occasional overhauls, etc.

Yes, I have always wanted this; but, I am not sure it is worth the additional time at my desk. So, I am probably just going to see if the market is good enough to me that I can do this some day. Until then, I do have well over 1MM frequent flier miles to spend getting off the ground.

I did not plan on this when I retired. It was something I had thought about from time to time but didn't think I would actually be able to do it. My wife encouraged me to do it when I told her it was something I always wanted to do. It does cost though, and I keep track, it will be the first thing to go if money becomes a problem. But hopefully it just cost the kids a bit of their inheritance.

 

[dm]

As DIY as I am, this is one that I'll leave for the professionals.

I'm curious, what do you do for transportation after you arrive? Are there car rental agencies at smaller airports?

We have never had a problem getting a car or transportation. Some airports have even loaned us a car for a few days, most will have a car you can use for a few hours. We have also rented cars. And we have been picked up by restaurants or other businesses. We went down to the keys recently and the airport personnel drove us to the sea food festival that was going on and picked us up later when we called. This was a big suprise to us. most airports will even give you the door code to get into there offices when they are closed so you can use the bathroom or whatever, they have also left the keys for the courtesy cars there for us.

 

[Mulligan]

It better be a 250 lb, well fit, male flight attendant. Otherwise, the pilot can easily overcome and crash the plane.

There was a successful intentional crash even with other pilots present. One pilot just turned off the engine and the other two pilots could not get the plane back under control and crashed.

DW and I recently drove to Oregon and back from California. 9 hour drive each way was endurable given all the recent plane crashes, and hassle at the airports, not to mention extra charge for checking our golf bags. The evil is losing against us.

Ultimately it all comes down to where we are willing to suspend our belief in realities. Having the wheel in your hands carries a feeling of being in control when reality a blown tire, suicidal driver, or texting idiot pretty much negate that "control".
I cant get up on a ladder higher than 10 feet without the feeling of falling off, so I cant even get on my roof to clean gutters. But I can fly in a plane any time and have no concerns or fears. Mentally I can suspend the belief that I am in the air, it feels like sitting in a big room to me. I cant trick myself on a ladder though!
The first plane trip or two landing and take off brought some fear in me, but I would think "the pilots wouldn't be working for a pension if they weren't going to land this thing safely every time".


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

I hope you are proud of yourself; posts like these drive people like me to OMY syndrome:

• X more months to afford my license
• Y months to buy the plane
• Z months for my own hanger
• Then, ongoing insurance, fuel, occasional overhauls, etc.

Yes, I have always wanted this; but, I am not sure it is worth the additional time at my desk. So, I am probably just going to see if the market is good enough to me that I can do this some day. Until then, I do have well over 1MM frequent flier miles to spend getting off the ground.

I will not lie...when I owned my plane, it was a wonderful thing. When we lived in Texas, it was an easy 2-3 hour jaunt to see the inlaws (who I like) by plane. If we took the car, it was usually a 7-8 hour trip. If it was a long weekend, traffic was HORRIBLE and the car trip could be MORE than 8 hours. No matter HOW bad traffic was, the plane trip was the same 2-3 hours. It was also great for the short trips out for dinner on the coast or some BBQ "up the road".

BUT....it's a VERY EXPENSIVE way to get around. I had one of the CHEAPEST airplanes there is to own and it STILL cost me a ton of cash to have the "privilege" of having it. This was living in Texas, where Avgas was "cheap" and hangars were too (at least in the San Antonio area). If I were to do it again, I would most likely NOT own an airplane again.

Not only to mention the guberment. They really aren't huge fans of little airplanes and there are constant threats to the current way of funding the system. User fees (like used in Europe) will probably happen sooner or later and that will make owning a plane cost prohibitive for most of the "plebes".

But, I do miss it.

 

[Walt34]

I will not lie...when I owned my plane, it was a wonderful thing.<snip>

BUT....it's a VERY EXPENSIVE way to get around. I had one of the CHEAPEST airplanes there is to own and it STILL cost me a ton of cash to have the "privilege" of having it. This was living in Texas, where Avgas was "cheap" and hangars were too (at least in the San Antonio area). If I were to do it again, I would most likely NOT own an airplane again.

Not only to mention the guberment. They really aren't huge fans of little airplanes and there are constant threats to the current way of funding the system. User fees (like used in Europe) will probably happen sooner or later and that will make owning a plane cost prohibitive for most of the "plebes".

But, I do miss it.

That pretty much parallels my experience with the Tri-Pacer I had. Loads of fun, I enjoyed it, but in the end it just costs too much.

For the others, a good Tri-Pacer can be had for ~$25k, but a back-of-the-envelope figure for ownership would be $4,500/year (highly dependent on location) for insurance, annual inspection, maintenance, tiedown or hangar, + about $36/hour for fuel - 9 gallons/hour at $4/gallon.

Not the cheapest way to get around.

 

[dm]

I look at it like trying to justify a 100k motorhome or boat. It's a hobby, you have to enjoy it. No way to make the numbers work out. Over the last 3 years it has cost me around $15,000 to $20,000 a year to fly about 100hrs a year. This does not count the cost of the plane itself. Some of the cost were for things I didn't have to have, just wanted.

But it is something my wife and I both enjoy, or at least she likes going places. We sold the RV and truck as we did that for a few years and she much prefers flying and staying in hotels now.

 

[Chuckanut]

Here's a solution to many of the boarding problems that discourage people from flying:

 

[Nemo2]

Here's a solution to many of the boarding problems that discourage people from flying:

Gotta love (some of) those Canadian airlines.......we've flown WestJet a few times, they generally try to inject some humor into the safety instructions.

 

[Hyper]

A few yrs ago I thought very serious about buy and learning how to fly to qet to property we just sold. 1.) Really glad I didn't because we sold the property. 2.) We are kinda close to a small airport now and all the planes ever do is go up make a few circles and then land. Others do several take offs and landings multiple times. Seems so Boooorrrring. I think I'd die from falling asleep.

 

[meierlde]

A few yrs ago I thought very serious about buy and learning how to fly to qet to property we just sold. 1.) Really glad I didn't because we sold the property. 2.) We are kinda close to a small airport now and all the planes ever do is go up make a few circles and then land. Others do several take offs and landings multiple times. Seems so Boooorrrring. I think I'd die from falling asleep.

Having taken flying lessons once upon a time, the repeated take off and landing is an important part of keeping ones skill level as a pilot up. These are called touch and gos. Also pilots need to log 3 takeoffs and landings every 90 days to stay legal to fly. (as well as a flight review every 24 months)

 

[Pilot2013]

Very nice dm! I like the same option.

 

[Idnar7]

Not to hijack this thread :^) but in 40+ years of extensive flying I have only encountered one female pilot. That was on a short leg from Austin to Dallas. I saw her board the plane and enter the cockpit. After we took off she came on the intercom and said this is your Captain Mary and your Co-pilot is .... And it was a name that was not gender-specific. I never did get to see the C0-pilot to see if it was an all female crew. With all the women now going into engineering and such, it is surprising there aren't more pilots. Anyone else encounter one or two?

 

[audreyh1]

I've seen several women pilots or copilots in the last few years. With a lot more women flying in the military it's not so surprising. A couple of decades ago I had only ever seen one.

 

[akck]

I've seen two female pilots on a commuter flight about 25 years ago. I've also seen female pilots or first officers on larger commercial flights over the years. There was one flight where the female pilot made a landing where you only knew you landed only because you could hear the wheels rolling on the runway.


Sent from my iPad using Early Retirement Forum

 

[Meadbh]

It appears that approximately 5-6% of commercial pilots in the US are women. The proportion apparently has plateaued in recent years. A British study suggested that the lack of female role models is making young women hesitate to become pilots.

Of course it is a very expensive career to get started, it's not well reimbursed in the early stages, the time away from home may be problematic for some.

5 decades of U.S. Female Pilots Statistics

British Airways asked why so few women are becoming pilots, and the answer is shocking | Irish Examiner

And there are still a few sexist passengers:

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2014/03/04/sexist-napkin-message-westjet_n_4896443.html

But there have been some trailblazers for many years. Here's one such pilot (now ER) whom I know I've flown with:

http://corporate.aerlingus.com/mediacentre/pressreleases/pressreleases10/title,11329,en.html