Electric Cars and Types of Driving

[NW-Bound]

I'm not old enough for a golf cart yet. Or an adult tricycle. Unless we're talking one of these:

https://slingshot.polaris.com/en-us/

You have just moved there. Eventually, you will be ready.

 

[RunningBum]

Well, that could be an issue. We only have one car, and occasion for long distance trips will arise. Just not often enough to keep a gas engine healthy.

How long are those long trips? I could see going 400 miles in an electric. ~200 miles on a full charge, stop once to recharge, finish the drive. More long stops than that, not for me. You may not even want the one long stop. Just trying to get some perspective of what you mean by long distance trips.

 

[Elbata]

An electric car is ideal for local driving. That's what we use our Tesla Model 3 for. If you can install a 240V 40A-50A outlet or charging connector near where you park the car at home, you'll never have to think about range. It starts out full (actually 80%-90%) every day. How many miles will you drive in one day? That's the key consideration in this case. No trips to the gas station was one of my priorities. Even 120V 15A can get you about 5 miles of range per hour, so you might be able to get by just with that.

Electric cars don't need to be warmed up, so short trips are not especially hard on the car. They are highly efficient in the city, with regenerative braking. Other than plugging in at home I don't think you'd notice any change to your normal driving. Except it can be a lot of fun with quick, smooth, and quiet acceleration.

As far as long distance travel, that's what our Tesla Model X is used for. It's a lot of fun traveling in an electric car. We drive for about 2 hours, charge for about 30 minutes, and repeat as necessary until we get where we're going. The more frequent, slightly longer stops for charging allow you to walk around for a bit, which goes a long way towards making the trip tolerable and even relaxing. A couple of those stops will include lunch or dinner, so no charging penalty for them. You may need a little flexibility to use the restaurants, hotels, or sightseeing that is a short walk from the charger. We've tried some places we never would have normally, with good results. This suits many Tesla owners, though some others just can't take the charging stops. If you want to drive 12 hours with no stops this may not be your road trip car.

Tesla has their Supercharger fast charging network along the most traveled highways and in many cities. You can charge anywhere you can find an outlet, but using the Superchargers is fastest. We use an online route planner to find our optimum route using Superchargers, so we know how the trip will go before we start. Our X has an EPA range of 292 miles with a full charge. That's good for over 200 miles of high-speed travel. "Filling the tank" gets slower at charge levels above 80%, so fast traveling means you charge only enough to reach the next Supercharger plus a 10%-20% safety margin. The car estimates your safety margin as you are driving, so if unexpected rain or a headwind pop up you can slow down to a more efficient speed to ensure reaching your destination. Generally traffic jams will lead to additional safety margin due to driving slower. And A/C is only a small hit, though driving at below freezing temps can significantly lower your range. With a little planning we've never had a problem with range.

We use Tesla's Autopilot to do all the highway driving. While you still have hands on the wheel, not having to make little steering adjustments car separation adjustments leaves me more time to watch down the road and check out the scenery. It's what allows me to make long road trips, like four days of 11 hours of (shared) driving. And I look forward to it!

Other than Tesla, I don't know of any other battery electric cars that are ready to make long road trips. Either charging will be too slow or their fast chargers are not convenient for travel. Hopefully this is improving. But if road trips are not a concern almost any electric car that matches your daily use with about 50% to 80% of its range should work nicely.

Thanks for sharing your experience.

I recently heard Tesla has bought a battery company that will produce a battery that is less costly and will last up to 2MM miles, instead of the current 1MM miles. Also, it appears imminent that their cars will be fully self-driving soon.

It does seem that driving long distances with a Tesla is less taxing. I'd welcome the break every 2 hours, to exercise or having dinner.

Enough of this talk, the more I think about Tesla, the more I'd like to purchase their car. I've heard they're thinking of starting an Uber type business, where Tesla car owners allow their cars to be used as "Taxis".

 

[cbo111]

I had a Prius years ago and loved it. Zero mx issues in 168,000 miles, and got 50mpg+.
I must admit to a bit of a fixation for the Tesla Model 3, which curiously enough has replaced my previous Corvette fixation. I joined the Tesla Forum, which has a large group of rabid Tesla fans to read all about their experiences. I love the technology and near-future self-driving capability. If they continue to improve and gain some more global super charger locations, I will be joining the Tesla world in a couple years.

 

[cbo111]

Oh and I forgot to mention you driving your Tesla from 0-60mph in about 3 seconds, which will be very cool. I recall my Prius did 0-60 in about 11 seconds.

 

[Amethyst]

Well, my closest relatives are 500 and 800 miles away, respectively.

How long are those long trips? I could see going 400 miles in an electric. ~200 miles on a full charge, stop once to recharge, finish the drive. More long stops than that, not for me. You may not even want the one long stop. Just trying to get some perspective of what you mean by long distance trips.

 

[RunningBum]

Well, my closest relatives are 500 and 800 miles away, respectively.

In the understatement of the year, Animorph said

If you want to drive 12 hours with no stops this [electric] may not be your road trip car.

 

[HFWR]

...give the car “a good run”.

Yep, we all need a good run from time to time...

 

[Scrapr]

I'm not old enough for a golf cart yet. Or an adult tricycle. Unless we're talking one of these:

https://slingshot.polaris.com/en-us/

I saw one of those. Parked next to it & looked it over. When I came out the owners were getting ready to go. Talked to them for a bit. They said the had "Batman" suits & hat for it. I forgot to ask about a cape. They looked like they were having fun with it

 

[BigNick]

Surprisingly, a/c hardly impacts my range. The heater is the battery hog.

That's interesting, because the heating system in an EV is (or ought to be) a heat pump - basically the A/C running in reverse. (Resistance-based electrical heating would of course be a disaster for the range.) I suppose if it's very cold (well below freezing) outside the heat pump could be very inefficient.

 

[swakyaby]

Nearly 4 1/2 years ago, DH began talking about wanting an electric car. Six months pass and he’s even more interested in an all-electric car and selling his Nissan Murano. I was perfectly happy puttering around town in my small Lexus sport coupe, but the multiple short trips to various stores only a quarter mile apart couldn’t be too good on the engine I thought. He began seriously considering the Nissan Leaf, even with it’s limited range. I had already started looking at the Tesla supercharging network along the long distance routes to my relatives, 400 miles to my elderly mother, and 500 miles to my many in-laws. When the Superchargers were built to within every 200 miles of my desired long distance route, I said to DH, “What about a Tesla? It’s in the budget.”

Since then, I have enjoyed short distance multiple errand stops around town as much as distance driving to my relatives. Range worries are not nearly the concern I feared before purchasing an electric car. There is even a pet mode where you can run the climate control while you go inside the grocery store so your pooch won’t get overheated. Anyway, I have become a fan of electric cars. I can hardly get the car away from DH most days. Meanwhile, my gas car gets even less road time than ever. Someday, I imagine I will drop having a gas car as a crutch, and become an all-electric car household.

 

[swakyaby]

I'd be concerned about leaving an electric car parked for months and months, though I'm not sure where the cut off point would be.

My electric car allows me to set a battery charge level. So if I were to go away for months, I would plug it in in my garage, set the battery charge level to 50% and leave. It would only begin charging if the battery level dropped below your set level. So not a concern compared to letting a gas car sit.

 

[travelover]

My electric car allows me to set a battery charge level. So if I were to go away for months, I would plug it in in my garage, set the battery charge level to 50% and leave. It would only begin charging if the battery level dropped below your set level. So not a concern compared to letting a gas car sit.

That's a cool feature.

 

[Mr. Tightwad]

My Tesla model X has a 237 mile range and cost me 79k, with 11k in credits/rebates bringing it to 68k.

My Model 3 has a range of 310 miles and cost me 49k, and was 38k after the credits/rebates.

Someone mentioned dog mode. Yes Telsa's do have those, I have 2 Yorkies.

Took my model X to San Diego recently, stopped at a couple of Superchargers, avoided all the gas taxes.

There is a crime occurring in LA area lately called "Sliding", where a criminal opens the passenger door of your vehicle while your at a gas station and steals your purse (the news said they were targeting females) from inside your vehicle, while you are filling your car with gas. I'm glad I'll never be in a gas station again. Google "sliding", I read the Newsweek article.

If anyone has questions about EV's feel free to message me.

 

[ncbill]

I wish they still made something like the Smart EV.

BIL is a used car dealer...picked one up on trade for his wife for ~$6k, perfect commuting car.

Still had 70+ mile range, easily recharged overnight via only a 120VAC extension cord.

Roads flat as a pancake (they're down at the beach) optimized the range.

Something like that would be perfect for me around town.

 

[ShokWaveRider]

VW Messed it up for "Clean" Diesels. My first diesel a Mercedes E350D got 45mpg on the freeway and my most recent BMW 328D got 45mpg in town and 55mpg on the freeway. After the lease expired I gave it back..... regretfully. Now there are so few diesel offerings, to the point I am thinking of actually buying one, going against my Lease cars only principles. I remember driving from Florida to Toronto in the BMW and it costing me ~$50. Beats any electric for me. I would rather drive a BMW than Prius or Leaf and not have to worry about charging. JMHO, YMMV.

 

[38Chevy454]

Well, we do drive most days of the week. Just not more than about 10 miles from the house, and all in traffic/stoplights.

Driving 10 miles is more than enough to keep the car in good condition. Plenty for the drivetrain to to get up to operating temps and the battery fully charged, the car is fine. It does not have to be full highway long distance, although that is good to do occasionally. In FL you do not have the extreme colder temps where it takes longer to get up to operating temps.

Once warmed up, stopping and starting the engine is no issue. As evidenced by the mfrs of new cars now use engine stop programming to kill the engine at stoplights and then restart once you step on the throttle.
Only thing you need to do is use the mfr sever duty maintenance cycle, which would be more often engine oil changes and possibly transmission fluid changes.

 

[Mr._Graybeard]

VW Messed it up for "Clean" Diesels. My first diesel a Mercedes E350D got 45mpg on the freeway and my most recent BMW 328D got 45mpg in town and 55mpg on the freeway. After the lease expired I gave it back..... regretfully. Now there are so few diesel offerings, to the point I am thinking of actually buying one, going against my Lease cars only principles. I remember driving from Florida to Toronto in the BMW and it costing me ~$50. Beats any electric for me. I would rather drive a BMW than Prius or Leaf and not have to worry about charging. JMHO, YMMV.

I owned a couple of early '80s Merc turbo diesels, the classic W123s ... they were great cars, but they really needed to stretch their legs from time to time. Short trips at low speed tended to coke them up and reduce performance. I'm sure that modern diesels have it all over those old mechanical-injection models, but do you know anyone who has used them primarily for short hops around town?

BTW, we just bought a Sprinter camper van with the OM647 engine. It is a lively motor for its size.

 

[ShokWaveRider]

I owned a couple of early '80s Merc turbo diesels, the classic W123s ... they were great cars, but they really needed to stretch their legs from time to time. Short trips at low speed tended to coke them up and reduce performance. I'm sure that modern diesels have it all over those old mechanical-injection models, but do you know anyone who has used them primarily for short hops around town?

BTW, we just bought a Sprinter camper van with the OM647 engine. It is a lively motor for its size.

As long as you stick with the BlueTec diesels, there are no worries. Ours did small trips 90% of the time with absolutely no problems at all. Plus Clean Diesels are bulletproof, often surpassing the lives of the chassis they are mounted on.

 

[Chuckanut]

My Model 3 has a range of 310 miles and cost me 49k, and was 38k after the credits/rebates.

S

I notice that the Model 3 received a very high safety rating in the European New Car Assessment Programme.


ttps://techcrunch.com/2019/07/04/watch-how-tesla-model-3-earned-its-5-star-safety-rating-from-euro-ncap/

 

[Koolau]

Recently, I mentioned the drop in our car's gas mileage, and my fears for the engine's health, since we moved to Florida and no longer have any high-speed distance driving to do. Instead, the car either sits in the garage or is forced to do short trips involving lots of lower-speed, stop-and-go driving. This is defined by the manufacturer as "severe driving conditions."

We are trying to come up with excuses to get out on the turnpike in order to give the car a good run.

Are "types of driving" a concern for electric vehicles? We are starting to think about a new car.

If you think your car may have some engine issues, you might try using some fuel injector cleaner first. It's cheap and it really does work in many cases. Nest thing would be to invest in a compression test. With that you can diagnose both piston rings and valves. That will pretty much tell you if the engine is sound.

If you want an electric car (or hybrid), by all means buy one and enjoy. Just don't expect that doing so will necessarily save you money in the long run over keeping your old car going. You can buy a lot of gas for the price of a new car. If the old car isn't a maintenance hog, you're often better keeping it, but that's a very personal choice. By all means, do what YOU want to do with your money. You ain't takin' it with you, though YMMV.

 

[Amethyst]

Thanks, that's good to know. Right now I'm just thinking about the long-term effect of the significant change in driving habits - from regular trips on a high-speed road, to mostly stop-and-go @ 45mph. The crappy gas mileage isn't a financial concern (since we aren't driving that much) so much as a leading indicator of potential problems. The auto shop that did our oil change was of the same opinion...although they didn't find any issues so far. Funny, they put a sticker on the windshield advising our next oil change for 12/25/2019. Hard to believe they'll be open on Christmas.

If you think your car may have some engine issues, you might try using some fuel injector cleaner first. It's cheap and it really does work in many cases. Nest thing would be to invest in a compression test. With that you can diagnose both piston rings and valves. That will pretty much tell you if the engine is sound.

If you want an electric car (or hybrid), by all means buy one and enjoy. Just don't expect that doing so will necessarily save you money in the long run over keeping your old car going. You can buy a lot of gas for the price of a new car. If the old car isn't a maintenance hog, you're often better keeping it, but that's a very personal choice. By all means, do what YOU want to do with your money. You ain't takin' it with you, though YMMV.

 

[DINKFIRE]

Well, we do drive most days of the week. Just not more than about 10 miles from the house, and all in traffic/stoplights.

I agree with the previous comment on Prius. With the low gas price in the last several years, used Prius is priced low. Unless you plan to drive in snowy condition or off-road a lot, a Prius will give you exceptional gas mileage. But do research the model years since many of them have recalls. Repairs tend to cost more that gas-engine cars because of its hybrid system.

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

This is just anecdotal information, so take it for what it's worth.

My Dad had a 2004 Town Car that he bought used in 2006. When he died last year, he had put less than 6000 miles on the car over a 12 year period. Those included two long distance trips we made that put about 1600 of those miles on it which averages to about 400 miles a YEAR. Most of his trips were going to the local grocery store (less than 1/2 a mile each way) and his doctors office (about 4 miles away). On occasion, he would visit me at home...a whopping 6 miles away. The last year of his life, we met weekly for breakfast and that was 8 miles each way. ANYWAY...the car ran flawlessly. Never an issue and all he did was have the oil changed every 3 months. Did he have to change it that often? Well, no, but he loved socializing and it got him out of the house, so I never complained about it to him.

So, point is that even with very short trips (and I might add that he thought he was Mario Andretti, even at 90 years old!) the plain old ICE did just fine. I think the best thing you can do for *any* car is keep it garaged.

Fast forward a year and I can report that the car is still in the family is still running great...but with a LOT more miles being put on it these days..about 100 a day as I understand.

 

[gerntz]

An electric car is ideal for local driving. That's what we use our Tesla Model 3 for. If you can install a 240V 40A-50A outlet .....

That's the key consideration in this case. No trips to the gas station was one of my priorities.

.....

We drive for about 2 hours, charge for about 30 minutes, and repeat as necessary until we get where we're going. The more frequent, slightly longer stops for charging allow you to walk around for a bit, .....

Tesla has their Supercharger fast charging network along the most traveled highways and in many cities. You can charge anywhere you can find an outlet, but using the Superchargers is fastest. We use an online route planner to find our optimum route using Superchargers, so we know how the trip will go before we start.

A few questions:

- What's the cost of installing the 240V/40A outlet?

- Why is not having trips to the gas station a goal but stopping 1/2hr+ to recharge is OK? In fact, I rarely make trips to gas stations with my ICE car. I just stop along the route I'm already going. And I'm fully recharged with gas in 5 minutes.

- Why is needing to stick to a pre-planned route desirable vs. being able to make spur of the moment route changes knowing finding fuel isn't a consideration at all except under rare circumstances?

Thanks.