Not every kid is an engineer. What do we do about the others?

[tmm99]

I think the OPs question is more about the wisdom of getting $200k in debt in order to qualify for a job that will never pay more than $60k a year.
Friend of mine dropped a bundle on a daughter who majored in Latin American Women's Art....

My coworker was complaining about his daughter getting a degree in biology from a UC (can’t remember which but my coworker paid for it) and couldn’t find any job after graduating and was working as a fitness instructor at some gym.

 

[MRG]

I spent 29 years in IT and saw many talented people and some who weren't. The people who were really bad at IT all went into it because of money.

I wouldn't suggest anyone do it because of the pay. You might find out, at 3 AM, that other careers have different benefits.

 

[candrew]

IMO this makes nursing one of the hardest jobs on the planet. A compassionate competent nurse is worth their weight in gold.

As the proud parents of an absolutely awesome nurse practitioner son, DW & I thank you for that recognition.

 

[Bigdawg]

join the military, go to A/C school, and then either mature and go to college or get out and work in aerospace industry / Cyber etc etc ..... I'm a perfect example !!!!!!!!!

+1

 

[Clone]

Supply management is a good area now. Lots of people trying to figure out where to source product, how to move things around the world, so much travel. It used to be called purchasing. Also technical sales. For folks that might be a bit on the technical side, but not interested in all the math, calculus, physics, etc- there is your applied engineering or industrial technology degrees. Lots of project management with an understanding of manufacturing or construction.



I think the biggest thing is for folks to identify what the job prospects are once you graduate. You don't get a job in political science- you get a job with that degree in the government ranks, or you go to law school. Business majors can make huge money, or they can run a store in the mall- there are no guarantees. Most schools have career fairs. You can see what companies are hiring interns in each area. That would give a prospective student some idea if there is demand and where the jobs are.


I see students that are in engineering that really do not have the motivation or the aptitude to get it done. They ruin their gradepoint and then need to dig themselves out of a hole. Engineering is not easy.

 

[Big_Hitter]

What happens to the millions of kids that are not computer geeks or engineers?

they go to law or business school

 

[Mdlerth]

Industry or the Industrial Revolution? That is the question

I often think I made a huge mistake going technical instead of into some liberal arts direction. I suspect I'd have been happier as a history professor or novelist.

Instead, I spent a career as an engineer in the salt mines. Unemployment was never an issue and the money came in reliably, although it was hardly spectacular. At times it's been fun, however I would not recommend it to anyone who isn't already inclined toward it.

It may be noteworthy that none of my five kids studied engineering, but all of them are employed, self-sufficient, and on decent growth paths. Can't ask for more than that.

 

[hausfrau]

I was an English major. My first job was coding documents for big lawsuits. After that, I got into tech customer service and then tech writing and training. That led to my career in project management. My husband is in the trades and has never been without work.

 

[38Chevy454]

So I am one of those that were saying go STEM or business in the other post. My main point was that you need to evaluate the time and money trade-off of a college degree vs the payback potential. That is why a BS in psychology is not on the good side of the trade-off evaluation. I promoted STEM or business as a better choice to stay on the positive side of that trade-off.


I fully support and encourage the trades route as alternative to traditional college. However, my impression (of course limited to my view) is that most liberal arts type majors are people that also would not like doing trades type work. So saying trades as an alternative for a liberal arts type person is not really doing them any good as a suggestion more than saying go STEM. Either way won't work for them.


As for what is my suggestion if not STEM or trades? I would say business, or nursing. Nursing is tough, long hours, work holidays, and requires dealing with patients, doctors and families. It's not easy. My DW is/was an RN, so I know first hand what she did.


If a kid is just set on being liberal arts, then the path I would suggest is teaching. It may require more degrees beyond BS. Minimum will need to get teacher certification. Again not the easiest route, but at least will have some better potential. If teaching is not the route, then the kid better be good with people and go into sales. Has high income potential, if good at it and have a good product to sell. Selling to public is a hard way to go, get into business to business sales. Freelance pharmaceutical sales on the corner may be very lucrative, but usually ends bad.


I agree completely that as society in general we have made traditional college as the path expected and have led too many kids down that path without a sense of what they want to do once done. A degree is a good thing, but is not a good financial trade-off if that degree does not have decent payback.

 

[Cobra9777]

We expected our kids to go to college. But we never placed any expectations WRT a "profitable major." Nor was there any expectation that they actually work in the field they majored in. We just don't think the education process stops in the 12th grade. Regardless of major, college is where you really learn to write effectively, think independently, creatively solve problems that have no clear answer, etc. We told them to major in whatever interested them intellectually. Career stuff can be figured out later.

As it turns out, DS did very well in math and physics in high school. So the counselors encouraged him to go into engineering. He got a BS in electrical engineering from UT Austin. He worked at a giant Megacorp for 3 years but eventually found his dream job working for the Analytics department of a professional sports franchise.

Academically, DD was slightly above-average in high school. She took some AP classes but did not enjoy the rigorous studying. She was more of a people person. She majored in education and now teaches middle school kids with severe intellectual disability. She also teaches yoga classes for people with physical and intellectual disabilities, which have become quite popular. She talks about going to graduate school for Occupational Therapy, but I'm not sure if that will ever happen.

So as it turns out, the kids were more practical than we expected. They both took a very career-oriented path through college. But we certainly would have supported them no matter what they decided. The only constraint was that we would pay no more than $16K/year, which was the in-state rate at the time for tuition, room, and board.

 

[Mr._Graybeard]

I wouldn't be surprised to see teachers in great demand 10 or 15 years down the road. The lack of respect the trades got as a career path years ago -- I see teachers going through that now.

I recall a series of newspaper articles about teachers in Finland and the great success of the educational system there. The articles concluded that teachers there paid very well, and the path to becoming a teacher is rigorous.

 

[street]

^ teachers are in a huge demand as I type. Thousands of teaching jobs each year aren't filled because of low number of teachers.

 

[hausfrau]

I'll amend my response to say that there are a lot of jobs out there that aren't even on a kid's radar (or their parents). I didn't know about project management in HS or college, but it turned out to be a pretty good fit for me. My husband is in a completely different trade than the one he trained for also. There can be a lot of twists and turns to a career.



However, for my own child, I'll try to steer them toward something practical, if I can. We'll pay for college either way though because I think there's value in it regardless of major. However, I'm not sold on the value of graduate school, unless it's a requirement. I think having a higher paying career early on is the best way to go if possible.

 

[ivinsfan]

^ teachers are in a huge demand as I type. Thousands of teaching jobs each year aren't filled because of low number of teachers.

Teachers tend to leave the profession as well. I have a few teachers in my family and to a person they say it's not the money or the kids that make it difficult, it's the darn politics and internal sniping by the powers that be.

 

[hausfrau]

So as it turns out, the kids were more practical than we expected. They both took a very career-oriented path through college. But we certainly would have supported them no matter what they decided. The only constraint was that we would pay no more than $16K/year, which was the in-state rate at the time for tuition, room, and board.

I think a lot of young people today are a lot wiser than they are given credit for. Things were also different 20-30 years ago. A lot of companies that recruited at the college I went to offered OTJ training. A lot just depends on the economy at the time also.

 

[Teacher Terry]

Having been a career counselor for many years you want the person to have a interest, aptitude in the type of work and then be a degree or trade that they can get a job also. So if someone was interested in a psychology degree steer them to social work for example. Studies show that high pay is not enough for most people to stay in a job that they hate.

 

[tulak]

they go to law or business school

Or they become teachers, etc. There are lots of paths and a lot of people don’t work in the field where they majored. This is true even for STEM majors.

DD is going through this right now. She doesn’t know what she wants to do after college, but she enjoys chem so that’s her plan of study. I wouldn’t be surprised if she ends up with a non-STEM career.

There’s also nothing wrong going the vocational route. I live close to a CC with a lot of vocational programs that lead to good employment.

I think the key is to study something you enjoy, but also know how it will lead to employment at some point.

 

[Lewis Clark]

There's a big push in our area for skilled trades - plumbers, electricians, appliance repair, home building, carpentry, HVAC etc.

The pay has jumped considerably, because there's such a lack of qualified employees. It's a perfect storm for folks to jump in and learn a trade.

Our high schools are bringing back training for chefs, auto repair and other hands on skills. People are realizing not everyone is college material.

+ 1

I am a teacher at the college level, but I'll be the first to say that college is not for everybody. In fact, based on some of the people who have been in my classes (who I won't flatter by referring to as students) I might shout this louder than anybody else.

Does anybody remember the television show Dirty Jobs? Mike Rowe, the host, has been lobbying for years about the availability of good jobs in the skilled trades, and even has a foundation that provides scholarships for people seeking such training. My wife and I have donated money to support these scholarships.

https://www.mikeroweworks.org/about/

 

[sengsational]

We expected our kids to go to college. But we never placed any expectations WRT a "profitable major." Nor was there any expectation that they actually work in the field they majored in. We just don't think the education process stops in the 12th grade. Regardless of major, college is where you really learn to write effectively, think independently, creatively solve problems that have no clear answer, etc. We told them to major in whatever interested them intellectually. Career stuff can be figured out later.

Same philosophy here.


Although I did tilt toward a degree with a "good job" at the end, the official position was I'd fund any 4 year degree. I did say to avoid coding (my job in the latter part of my career). Both had vest button popping SAT scores in all sections, so could have gone into practically any degree program. One went engineer (now in an IT flavored job), one went art/English (now in a IT company marketing/writing). Both now employed in jobs they like doing. It's all them. They're powerful people. I trusted them. I should have trusted them even more than I did.

 

[Bestwifeever]

I don’t know many engineers IRL and when I think of my kids’ friends and my friends’ kids, not a lot of engineers there. They all are or were making good money though, so there really is life outside engineering. My niece is a school psychologist, so there is that path too. She got her master’s in counseling online at an out-of-state state school that no one would consider prestigious.

STEM includes more beyond engineering or IT, by the way. And I notice there is an “a” for the arts being added to it more and more to make it STEAM.

 

[Sunset]

There's a big push in our area for skilled trades - plumbers, electricians, appliance repair, home building, carpentry, HVAC etc.

The pay has jumped considerably, because there's such a lack of qualified employees. It's a perfect storm for folks to jump in and learn a trade.

Our high schools are bringing back training for chefs, auto repair and other hands on skills. People are realizing not everyone is college material.

+1
OP - had the answer in the original post.

Getting into the trades is a great solid career choice, could even clear as much as a doctor since don't need schooling for 10 yrs and a lot less debt.
Plus, nobody is going to off-shore plumbing or electrical work.

 

[Mr._Graybeard]

Teachers tend to leave the profession as well. I have a few teachers in my family and to a person they say it's not the money or the kids that make it difficult, it's the darn politics and internal sniping by the powers that be.

I've heard similar complaints from nurses.

 

[bigcmagor]

I was told I wasn't college material by my high school guidance counselor. Everyone in my family has degrees or advanced degrees. I went anyway, at least for three years before deciding I liked working more than school. Joined a company with a vision and bought in hook, line and sinker. My first assignment was to sweep the entire facility and I swept it like I owned it. Ended up advancing through all the positions including president and ceo and am chairman of the board today.


In my opinion and experience, finding the right fit and showing ownership that you are all in is the key. Lots of people talk about wanting more responsibility (meaning pay), but few are willing to put the enterprise first when it comes down to it.


Of course for those who are truly driven, going into business for yourself is the best course for rewards. I've done well but our visionary has done 15 times better and never broke a sweat.

 

[RunningBum]

I'll amend my response to say that there are a lot of jobs out there that aren't even on a kid's radar (or their parents). I didn't know about project management in HS or college, but it turned out to be a pretty good fit for me.

I always like this clip from the Wonder Years, when Kevin goes to work with his dad. About 28 seconds in is my favorite.

 

[kgtest]

I am an engineer, I have no college and am third born. Healthy as a horse. Earn well above my peers.

Sis is middle child, has a masters in Psych, fairly healthy but struggles with thyroid and earns average her peers.
Oldest sis has masters in Finance and is battling cancer. She earns below what she was used to earning straight out of college and actually less than right after she got her masters.



We are all happy. Success, happiness are not married. And neither can be obtained via a degree.