Not every kid is an engineer. What do we do about the others?

[bclover]

Teachers tend to leave the profession as well. I have a few teachers in my family and to a person they say it's not the money or the kids that make it difficult, it's the darn politics and internal sniping by the powers that be.

absolutely. I was a chemistry major in school, by a stroke of luck I got a substitute teaching job in a catholic school in Brooklyn. absolutely fell in love with it but after 3 years the "inside" trading as I called it, got to me. I didn't mind the low wages but the "crap" from administration and the city of NYC had me running.

I think I would enjoy going back to it but the kids and the world are so different now.

 

[DFDubb]

I am an engineer, I have no college and am third born.

Out of curiosity, how does one become an engineer w/o an engineering degree?

In my state, I technically cannot even call myself an engineer because I never took the PE, though I do have an engineering degree.

 

[njhowie]

Out of curiosity, how does one become an engineer w/o an engineering degree?

In my state, I technically cannot even call myself an engineer because I never took the PE, though I do have an engineering degree.

"Engineer" is a loose term these days. You code, you're a software engineer.

 

[kgtest]

Out of curiosity, how does one become an engineer w/o an engineering degree?

In my state, I technically cannot even call myself an engineer because I never took the PE, though I do have an engineering degree.

Good question. It started in the military and I basically just kept adding relevant skills and tools to the industry. I certainly took some college courses...nothing of real signifigance though. My big break was when I faked it until I made it. Took a Sr Engineer gig with the DoD witbout the experience but was able to pass the background check. That's all they cared about at the time was the security clearance...then I just learned on the job. You can likely guess I am not an electrical engineer, nor a mechanical engineer.. Or even an architectural engineer. I engineer security.

 

[aja8888]

"Engineer" is a loose term these days. You code, you're a software engineer.

Yeah, whatever happened to the required five courses in Calculus followed by differential equations?

 

[redduck]

...So, having awareness and basic understanding of coding is important...

How is this important?

 

[tmm99]

"Engineer" is a loose term these days. You code, you're a software engineer.

Yep, I worked for one such company myself in Silicon Valey. I was a database administrator for many years, but at this company, I was called database engineer, and programmers were called software engineers.

 

[mh]

Or... be willing to do repair. Construction is fun and wide open.

Repair is challenging and may require tight spaces. But, it is in huge demand. Electric, HVAC, plumbing, brick masonry all need repair and it is hard to find someone to do it. If you are good at it, you can also demand a pretty good wage if you go on your own. Find a vibrant area and travel (except locally) won't be required.

One thing to note is that it can take a toll on your body if you are not careful. I have a friend who did commercial hvac repair was paid pretty well, and enjoyed it, but now he’s got substantial shoulder problems.

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

Out of curiosity, how does one become an engineer w/o an engineering degree?



In my state, I technically cannot even call myself an engineer because I never took the PE, though I do have an engineering degree.

All I know is my Dad was the smartest engineer I ever met and he *only* had a GED. He did very very, VERY well for himself without ever getting a degree.

I have a mess load of degrees but none of them have helped me make $ and I even joined the Air Force as a high school dropout. I think society generally (and I mean generally) looks down on the "trades" even though choosing that route can be very lucrative. Mike Rowe has been a huge advocate of educating folks on the positives of working "in the trades" and has done an excellent job of helping folks see the light.

 

[ncbill]

Out of curiosity, how does one become an engineer w/o an engineering degree?

In my state, I technically cannot even call myself an engineer because I never took the PE, though I do have an engineering degree.

As kgtest noted, you can still do it via the military.

My youngest kid's major is not any form of STEM, but they'll owe the military several years after graduation (ROTC scholarship) & are thinking about that path if they qualify.

 

[Accidental Retiree]

Around here, you can't get a job in fast food (or be a member of a landscape crew) unless you can speak Spanish. So that eliminates those college grads that can't do that.

Granddaughter just graduated (2 years ago) with a degree in Health Services, whatever that is, and had a hard time finding any job. She is working for a non-profit at just over minimum wage, doing phone soliciting for donations. Cool, I was pushing her into nursing where one can start around her at $50 -$70K, but she "didn't like the sight of blood". Good thing she wasn't my daughter.

We have four, yes four, major hospitals and health centers within a 2 mile radius of this place and they are screaming for qualified nurses.

If one doesn't want to be an engineer or a STEM grad, why not get a degree in business and have more flexibility and possibly start your own business someday?

And minor in Spanish.

 

[street]

Out of curiosity, how does one become an engineer w/o an engineering degree?

In my state, I technically cannot even call myself an engineer because I never took the PE, though I do have an engineering degree.

In the company I worked for we had engineers that didn't have a degree in engineering but did a great job. We then had an consultant company look stuff over and gave advise and did some of the numbers etc..

 

[SheitlQueen]

Learn a trade- plumber, electrician, welder etc. Not everyone needs a degree.

 

[Brat]

Most universities require at least a couple of years of a foreign language. Better a language that they might use than one that they would forget. In our country, Spanish is second to English but in the eastern US along the Canadian border French is more commonly used than Spanish. On the west coast, other than Spanish, Mandarin is spoken but rarely by those who did not learn it at their mother's knee.

Frankly few Americans ever use a language other than their neighborhood dialect of English. However, they are smart capable citizens. Knowing a language other than English shouldn't be a requirement for advanced studies IMHO.

 

[HadEnuff]

I am afraid I am in the group that believes that going to college, just for the sake of a piece of paper that says you went to college is not only a waste of time and money, it can be a disastrous waste of time and money if not kept in some kind of check.
It just costs too much money now (or at least it can) to wade through, and come out of the other end without some sort of marketable skill, and the desire to use it.

As others have pointed out, however, by using community colleges, and staying in-state, and using that time to figure out what one wants to do, or not want to do, one can get to the other side without having dug too deep of a hole to get back out of.

 

[Katsmeow]

Engineering is fine. Computer science is fine. If those are where your talents and interests align. When DS did his aptitude testing with Johnson o'Conner (I strongly recommend this) his first two suggestions were physician and engineering. But they weren't what he was interested in. His was interested in CS and that is what he majored in.

One interesting thing there. He told me that a large percentage of people failed the initial programming class. I did some research on that and found that is a common problem. People with no ability to think in that way deciding to major in CS (often parent driven) and they just couldn't do it. Smart people but just not how their minds work.

Johnson O'Conner made the point that it is really not good to be a mediocre engineer if your talents are elsewhere.

Trades are also fine. Again, if your talents and interests align. But, that would have been made for me. I like to do think that involve reading, writing, advocacy, analysis. So -- like many who want a professional degree but not a science professional degree -- I became an attorney.

And the world does need people in the non-STEM fields and the non-trades. We need psychologists. We need social workers. We need teachers. We need historians. We need writers. We need journalists. We need people in business and finance.

Any career can be fine if it aligns with one's talents and interests. However, I think you have to consider how much the training will cost as compared to the income you expect to make from the career. Don't spend $150k getting an undergraduate psych degree with no plan to go to graduate course. Don't spend a $150k getting a degree with a plan to teach elementary school. Both of those degrees are fine. Just go to a state school at reasonable cost.

 

[Andre1969]

There is a growing trend - tech or bust. The phrase "Learn2Code" is used so disparagingly it's banned on twitter.

My hunch is the pendulum will swing (again and again). The kids entering school today who get tech degrees will be a dime a dozen in a few years. Not everyone wants to code, or has the aptitude for it. While I think a teenager should learn some basics, I would not say "you need that degree or it's a waste of money". No one has a crystal ball, and the past is not always a predictor.

I know someone who got a bachelor's degree in Software Engineering, in 2014. He went through four high-paying jobs. Got laid off from the first, and then the second was just until the task at hand was done, and then went away, so he got laid off from that one as well. Got fired from the 3rd. Then, at the ripe of old age of around 26.5, got "burned out" and quit.


He has it in his mind that he's worth something like $104K per year, and whenever he'd apply for a job, he'd say that was his requirement. Needless to say, he's been unemployed since May of 2015. I let him crash with me for a few months, when he lost his place to live, but he turned out to be a major annoyance. The old adage about how you don't really know someone until you live with them certainly rings true! I also saw that I was enabling him...as long as he had a place to crash, internet service, and food to eat, I think he was planning to hold out until he got his "dream job". Eventually I told him he had to go. And thankfully, he did.


Your Learn2Code comment got me thinking about him. He talked about coding like it was some kind of magical voodoo. I looked at some of what he did, and honestly, it looked like a fancy form of the BASIC I took back in 1984, in high school. I have a feeling you're right...these types of jobs may one day be a dime a dozen, if they're not already.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

We didn't tell our kids they had to go into a career that was profitable, but that they had to pick a major that lead to reasonable expectations of a job post college, they could be financially self sufficient post college and we expected a reasonable payback on our investment. If some of the neighbors want to delay retirement and pay international tuition prices so their kids can get gender study degrees at a private university in London, then good for them, but we weren't going to do that.

 

[gerntz]

There's a big push in our area for skilled trades - plumbers, electricians, appliance repair, home building, carpentry, HVAC etc.

The pay has jumped considerably, because there's such a lack of qualified employees. It's a perfect storm for folks to jump in and learn a trade.

That perfect storm is a quite low unemployment rate.

 

[Dtail]

DGF's son majored in English. Not teaching English or anything related to it. Should have picked something else. Has a decent job for the first time at 30 y.o. but nothing related to his major.
Hoping it lasts.

 

[gerntz]

^ teachers are in a huge demand as I type. Thousands of teaching jobs each year aren't filled because of low number of teachers.

Raise their pay 50% & I imagine the shortages would be solved.

 

[Dtail]

Raise their pay 50% & I imagine the shortages would be solved.

Agree. Have heard teacher salaries by me is ~35k and thus the income to housing cost ratio just doesn't work for this career sector.

 

[gerntz]

Most universities require at least a couple of years of a foreign language.

I know 100's of college grads & none took any foreign language classes that I'm aware of.

 

[brokrken]

Maybe it's because neither one of my kids are engineer material that I ask a very simple question and I admit I take it personal when someone says "Im not wasting money on a kid that has a psychology degree"

Lots going on in this thread, but I'll respond to this comment from OP. I'm pretty sure I've muttered this phrase before about a psychology degree. My only issue is value for your money. There is no way I'd pay 200k+ for 4 years at a prestigious school for a degree which has so little earning power. It just goes against all frugality in me. But, I'd happily pay for technical school if my child wanted to be a welder, or plumber, or electrician. I've always said pay to get a trade, whether it's one mentioned above or one that requires a 4 year (or more) degree like engineering, or accounting, or nursing. These skills are always useful.

 

[Winemaker]

^ teachers are in a huge demand as I type. Thousands of teaching jobs each year aren't filled because of low number of teachers.

I respectfully disagree. Teaching jobs aren't filled because it's too much work and dangerous. DW and DD wer/are teachers in suburban school districts. 8 of my neighbors kids are teacher graduates and when it comes time to hire teachers, they are a dime a dozen. Hundreds of college students go into teaching because they like the work schedule, amount of days off, fun times with students and a lot of rah rah rah! When it comes down to student teaching time, these poor teacher wannabes are thrown to the wolves! There is virtually no discipline any more in schools or in homes. Teachers are assaulted a lot. When Johnny gets anything less than a A, the parents are calling the principal in a heartbeat. A lot of these student teachers stop right there because being a teacher is tough nowadays, and starting pay is low. DW has gone to the police several times because an 18 yo junior has threatened her with bodily harm, administration will do nothing. Out of school suspension is virtually unheard of nowadays because it goes on a state permanent record, and once there are a certain #, then that school is labeled as dangerous, and affects the folks moving into a school district. Some of the violence in schools is a result of some students taking justice in their own hands. Witness the video last week that was on all the news channels showing some punk literally pounding a classmate into oblivion. No one came to the kid's rescue, including fellow students but they filmed the whole thing on their cell. The school district refused to answer whether the kid was suspended or kicked out of school. Sorry about my rant.

Yes, there are teaching jobs that go unfilled, but it isn't because there is enough teachers to fill them. There isn't enough security to protect the teachers we have and need.