Retail theft and store closings

[Time2]

Well that's a different take... Can you speak towards the type of environments all 9 of these stores are geographically located in - as in, anything in common with those environments? Inflation is identified by BLS charts to specifically be worse in those particular areas? I'm struggling to identify what inflation has to do with the situation of these closings.

One store in Harlem, 3 in Seattle and 3 in San Franscisco/Oakland.



https://corporate.target.com/press/...es-to-prioritize-team-member-and-guest-safety

 

[jollystomper]

Remember Dick Tracy's Crimestopper tips? I remember one from the late 1960's or early 1970s that suggested that clothing stores should hang all of their garments with the hangers alternating direction. That way, a gang of thieves couldn't just grab a large number of garments off the rack at the same time.

Perhaps this is not an entirely new problem?

I also remember seeing that tip on the old "Dragnet" series. But that was a time before RFID tags, metal detectors, and security cameras. Theft then was more about the store being broken into when closed and thieves trying to get in an out as quickly as possible. So those tips were to deter and slow down the thieves who did not want to hang around the establishment very long. Unfortunately these days retail theft seems to be a more leisurely activity .

 

[Gumby]

When I was a boy, I sometimes went to live with my grandmother in a little coal mining town in Ohio for short periods of time. She worked as the clerk in what people called then a dry goods store. She always alternated the hangers on the rack.

 

[Markola]

Dang, my musing on another thread that the thefts spike might be related to the inflation spike caused a stir there and then the mods created a new thread which has 50+ posts since just this morning. Lol. What have I done?!

 

[ERD50]

.... Large retail chains have provisions for losses from shoplifting so there is some believe that chains are using it as an excuse to close underperforming stores.

Why do they need an excuse to close underperforming stores? Isn't that a business decision, and "underperforming" says it all?

-ERD50

 

[Sunset]

Why do they need an excuse to close underperforming stores? Isn't that a business decision, and "underperforming" says it all?

-ERD50

Because when they announce they are closing a store in an area that has had a lot of other stores close over the years due to violence/robbery, etc, there are protests by people.
The politicians get involved due to the protests of the under or soon to be less served community.

So if the company wants to open a new store, or expand some other store, or change the parking lot, they have to listen to the politicians and make their case why the store has to close...

 

[explanade]

Chains are adversely affected by unfavorable financial data. Their stock price depend on same store sales always going up. So admitting to underperforming stores might invite more scrutiny of their business and impact their stock negatively.


It's interesting, people like to watch movies about bank robberies or heist capers.

But it seems like these videos of brazen smash and grab thefts have struck a nerve.

To me they're not much different from the thieves glorified in the movies.

They see some flaws in the security of retail stores these days and exploit them with organized plots. Which is how the plot of these bank robbery movies go.

Neither the thieves in movies nor real life deserved to be rooted for.

 

[JoeWras]

Struck a nerve to me when I was in the middle of one of these thefts. It wasn't a mob, just one guy. Still my nerves were frazzled. I detailed it here: https://www.early-retirement.org/fo...re-losing-customers-118603-4.html#post2976987

This isn't all organized. There are lone wolfs willing to do this. With the accessibility of Ebay and Amazon, it is an easy resale.

Theft has always been a problem since the start of time. However, there is something new going on here, and it isn't just the same old. This is escalating and becoming widespread and dangerous.

 

[marko]

Why do they need an excuse to close underperforming stores? Isn't that a business decision, and "underperforming" says it all?

-ERD50

I would imagine that as a public company they owe it to the stockholders to explain that the underperformance is not due so much to mismanagement as it is to outside forces.

While is does provide them with good cover, it is a believable one and most likely true in this case, actually demonstrating good, pragmatic management. If I were a shareholder I'd expect such an explanation and applaud the announcement and decision.

You hear this all the time when you listen to quarterly calls: " ...because of the ice storm/hurricane/blizzard/union strike, sales in these 15 outlets were down by x% for Q3..."

 

[ERD50]

Originally Posted by ERD50 View Post
Why do they need an excuse to close underperforming stores? Isn't that a business decision, and "underperforming" says it all?

-ERD50

I would imagine that as a public company they owe it to the stockholders to explain that the underperformance is not due so much to mismanagement as it is to outside forces.

While is does provide them with good cover, it is a believable one and most likely true in this case, actually demonstrating good, pragmatic management. If I were a shareholder I'd expect such an explanation and applaud the announcement and decision.

You hear this all the time when you listen to quarterly calls: " ...because of the ice storm/hurricane/blizzard/union strike, sales in these 15 outlets were down by x% for Q3..."

OK, but to me, that's a "reason", not an "excuse". It was that "excuse" verbiage that threw me from that earlier post.
:

Some of it is gangs giving them a list of things to get and often the ones doing it are heroin addicts.

But the losses stores suffer are a small percentage.

Large retail chains have provisions for losses from shoplifting so there is some believe that chains are using it as an excuse to close underperforming stores.

-ERD50

 

[MichaelB]

I would imagine that as a public company they owe it to the stockholders to explain that the underperformance is not due so much to mismanagement as it is to outside forces.

While is does provide them with good cover, it is a believable one and most likely true in this case, actually demonstrating good, pragmatic management. If I were a shareholder I'd expect such an explanation and applaud the announcement and decision.

You hear this all the time when you listen to quarterly calls: " ...because of the ice storm/hurricane/blizzard/union strike, sales in these 15 outlets were down by x% for Q3..."

This is true. Management also needs to explain to the affected employees and customers, and the media. The real reasons for closing are not known to us, but excessive shoplifting is difficult to challenge as the cause, regardless of how important it was in the decision.

It’s also a message to customers and employees elsewhere to not be worried about future closings.

Large retail stores in dense urban areas are unprofitable. Suburban areas with lower rents and taxes and much more parking are much more attractive locations.

 

[Montecfo]

This is a paywalled story but I heard it discussed in one of The Economist podcasts this week.



https://www.economist.com/britain/2023/09/22/why-shoplifting-is-rising-in-britain



There are organized retail theft rings in the UK and they target specific items, which can apparently be flipped for money.



No mention of liberal DAs letting petty crimes go over there.





It's more likely that modern communications allow criminals to be more organized so they coordinate these "flash mob" rush to steal merchandise.

You seem unable to get off of the DAs. Lol.

Decriminalizing crime is the largest factor. Reduced police forces and liberal DAs are a factor as well, but, hey the theft is a misdemeanor. Does not really rise to the level of DAs.

And organized crime partner with young criminals with nothing to lose and that is the toxic recipe.

 

[Aerides]

Everyone enjoying this thread knows well enough to leave politics out of it, or that's the end of the fun.

 

[Time2]

Because when they announce they are closing a store in an area that has had a lot of other stores close over the years due to violence/robbery, etc, there are protests by people.
The politicians get involved due to the protests of the under or soon to be less served community.

So if the company wants to open a new store, or expand some other store, or change the parking lot, they have to listen to the politicians and make their case why the store has to close...

I can see a time when these high theft stores have everything behind walls. You place your order on a computer screen, a clerk or robot picks your order, it comes down a conveyor line already bagged and priced and you just pay to get your bags.

 

[Montecfo]

I can see a time when these high theft stores have everything behind walls. You place your order on a computer screen, a clerk or robot picks your order, it comes down a conveyor line already bagged and priced and you just pay to get your bags.

I can see a day when these high theft stores do not exist and locals must order everything and deal with porch pirates.

 

[Time2]

I can see a day when these high theft stores do not exist and locals must order everything and deal with porch pirates.

All that is already happening.

 

[explanade]

You seem unable to get off of the DAs. Lol.

Decriminalizing crime is the largest factor. Reduced police forces and liberal DAs are a factor as well, but, hey the theft is a misdemeanor. Does not really rise to the level of DAs.

And organized crime partner with young criminals with nothing to lose and that is the toxic recipe.

What do you mean by “decriminalizing crime”? Were there actual laws changed?

You brought up the DAs first.

CA has a threshold of $950 before a theft becomes a felony. But in TX the threshold is $2500.

A couple weeks ago, there were several smash and grabs in some high rent district in Philadelphia where several stores, including an Apple Store, were robbed.

In Pennsylvania, felony theft starts at $2000. So if you steal an iPhone 15 Pro Max in CA, it would be a felony but not in PA.

 

[marko]

I can see a day when these high theft stores do not exist and locals must order everything and deal with porch pirates.

90% of what we buy comes via Amazon and it is delivered inside our locked garage. Just about everything comes the next day. Maybe our only exception is Home Depot.

It's just so much easier than having to deal with parking, crowds, traffic and the hassle of standing in line to pay. A minor price premium but worth it IMO. First world issue for sure, but......

 

[Andre1969]

The common denominator is that they are rough areas. I meant that inflation is making things hard to afford, so people are resorting to theft. The spike coincides with the inflation spike over the past year, so I hypothesize that they are related. The store closings are across multiple but similar US communities, so my guess is the nationwide inflation is driving it.

Depends on how you define "rough." "Rough" does not necessarily equate to "poor." I'd say the common denominator here is that the Targets are in crime-ridden areas. Are they closing down any Targets in areas that are in more rural-type poor areas, like Appalachia and such?

I'm not saying that poor rural areas aren't crime-free, but they tend to be less tolerant of crime, in the first place.

 

[Andre1969]

What do you mean by “decriminalizing crime”? Were there actual laws changed?

You brought up the DAs first.

CA has a threshold of $950 before a theft becomes a felony. But in TX the threshold is $2500.

A couple weeks ago, there were several smash and grabs in some high rent district in Philadelphia where several stores, including an Apple Store, were robbed.

In Pennsylvania, felony theft starts at $2000. So if you steal an iPhone 15 Pro Max in CA, it would be a felony but not in PA.

There's more to it than just the dollar amount. The deciding factor is, do they actually get punished for the crime? "felony" vs "misdemeanor" simply means that the punishment is more severe, and they're probably more likely to try and prosecute. However, you can still run into situations where one jurisdiction takes misdemeanors more seriously than another jurisdiction takes felonies.

For instance, PA might be more likely to prosecute for that iPhone 15 theft than California, although the punishment itself might be lighter.

 

[JoeWras]

I can see a time when these high theft stores have everything behind walls. You place your order on a computer screen, a clerk or robot picks your order, it comes down a conveyor line already bagged and priced and you just pay to get your bags.

But, but, that's almost exactly what stores like Service Merchandise, McDade and Brendle's did in the 80s and 90s.

They had a showroom with floor models that you could touch or look at. You filled out a card, gave it to the clerk and paid, then it came down the conveyor in a few minutes.

Ahead of their time?

 

[Time2]

But, but, that's almost exactly what stores like Service Merchandise did in the 80s and 90s.

They had a showroom with floor models that you could touch or look at. You filled out a card, gave it to the clerk and paid, then it came down the conveyor in a few minutes.

Ahead of their time?

That is what I was thinking about when I wrote my post.

 

[MichaelB]

Here’s a list of 23 stores Wal-Mart is closing thus year (here). Their locations don’t fit at all this narrative.

Walgreens is closing 150 stores (here). BedBathand Beyond closed all its sites.

My guess is the one common denominator they all share is not crime, theft, location, property taxes, pandemic, or rent cost. It’s profitability. As margins are squeezed and inflation continues to bite, retail chains have few options to grow their profit, but they must do so now, and with a growing economy, find it difficult to explain.

Closing unprofitable stores works - over the short term.

 

[EastWest Gal]

Our local Bed Bath and Beyond had way too much stuff nobody wanted. It was so packed it was hard to find what you were looking for. During the Going out of Business Sale, I went looking for some towels. The quality was awful.

 

[Sojourner]

There's more to it than just the dollar amount. The deciding factor is, do they actually get punished for the crime? "felony" vs "misdemeanor" simply means that the punishment is more severe, and they're probably more likely to try and prosecute. However, you can still run into situations where one jurisdiction takes misdemeanors more seriously than another jurisdiction takes felonies.

For instance, PA might be more likely to prosecute for that iPhone 15 theft than California, although the punishment itself might be lighter.

+1

The video someone posted above of the guy who slowly stole a 70" TV with full video surveillance, surrounded by security guards who didn't actually stop him but did call the police, indicated the judge let him go with NO punishment, despite the mountain of evidence against him and his extensive criminal history. In cases like these, it makes no difference whether it's a misdemeanor or felony if there is no punishment at all!