Contrast between real life and current economic news

[PatrickA5]

I think every retail/dining establishment in my medium-sized city is hiring. Local fast food chicken place has a sign out saying they'll "start" at $10/hr. Really? You would have to work 40 hour weeks and you still wouldn't make enough to pay the rent. The "extra-money" high school kids don't want to do it, which leaves the adults that need to make a decent income in order to afford to live. I'm not sure how this plays out, but I think we'll see either much higher prices or failed businesses.

 

[Chuckanut]

That was clearly my sentiment and I still lean that way.


However, I'm beginning to believe that economics have changed and it is harder to start out. But, I also believe in individual initiative. I saw one post that went on about our grandparents could work three years and buy a house, etc. I though, oh nonsense! And then I looked at my life, I married in 1981 and in 1984 we bought our first home. 10% down 13.75% with a three year balloon. I got laid off a month later, but we had savings.
In fact another thing I have never got over, the state had a mortgage subsidy plan for those making under $20k (round numbers) we earned just under $20k, however we spent three years, living well below our income and saved over $20k the interest rates then were very high like 10%. The interest plus our income disqualified us from the 9% subsidy program. We did the right thing by saving and got penalized by the state.

Housing is the big killer in my area. My kids simply cannot afford to buy a home in this area, even a so-called starter home (50+ years old, 2 bedroom, 1 1/2 bath, 1200 sq ft on a small lot). And I can't afford to help them in any way that would produce a meaningful result.

But.... They both moved to lower priced states. One just bought her first home for $300,000 + closing costs (1600 sq ft, 2 baths, 3 bedrooms, a bonus room, descent yard, some modern upgrades). I was able to help in a meaningful way without jeopardizing my own situation. Back here, $300K would not be enough for a down payment that would leave a young person with an affordable monthly mortgage payment.

People need to be willing to move sometimes. My parents and grand parents moved about 5000 miles, from southern Italy to to Pennsylvania, and eventually to the then land of opportunity - California.

Thankfully, my children live in states that I consider to be in 'interesting' areas. I was fearful one or more would move to the state of (redacted), where I once spent a year of boredom while there for two weeks.

 

[COcheesehead]

I think every retail/dining establishment in my medium-sized city is hiring. Local fast food chicken place has a sign out saying they'll "start" at $10/hr. Really? You would have to work 40 hour weeks and you still wouldn't make enough to pay the rent. The "extra-money" high school kids don't want to do it, which leaves the adults that need to make a decent income in order to afford to live. I'm not sure how this plays out, but I think we'll see either much higher prices or failed businesses.

Entry level jobs were never intended to pay the rent. They are there to get experience and then move up or move on.

 

[EdL3]

Stores and restaurants are crowded with people because they have money to spend. Inflation is at an all time high, yet corporate profits are high. Here’s an example,
https://www.reuters.com/business/me...ng-pandemic-white-house-economics-2021-12-10/

Corporate greed reigns supreme.

 

[Aerides]

Entry level jobs were never intended to pay the rent. They are there to get experience and then move up or move on.

But the teens aren't taking them. At least my niece and nephew (17 and 20), and their friends, are not. They are dog sitting, ($25 a visit, twice a day) babysitting ($20+ per hour) or dressing up as superman and princesses for $50 an hour birthday party gigs, and doing 3 or 4 of those or more most weekends.

My niece pulls enough managing these jobs over every summer and school break that she doesn't have to squeeze in a part time job making $10 an hour during the school year. When she comes home for breaks she lets her booker know she's available as Elsa or the little mermaid or whatever and off she goes.

 

[harllee]

No one in my area wants a fast food job paying $10 an hour and why should they? They can get a job a Walmart paying $20 and hours plus benefits. Or they can do a gig job and make even more an hour. The minimum wage is going away because no one wants to work at minimum wage and they can find jobs paying more.

 

[target2019]

Yes, entry level jobs pay less, but a certain percentage of our society can only work those jobs. And they have no chance to move up. Many jobs that required little no-how or ability have been eliminated and I've seen this during my lifetime. I suspect most others have come across individuals who simply have topped out and can only perform the simplest of tasks.

 

[Scuba]

No one in my area wants a fast food job paying $10 an hour and why should they? They can get a job a Walmart paying $20 and hours plus benefits. Or they can do a gig job and make even more an hour. The minimum wage is going away because no one wants to work at minimum wage and they can find jobs paying more.

Or if they still live at home and have no financial pressure, they can turn down any jobs, even ones in their field of study, because they have to commute or work in an area they’d rather not be in. From what I’ve seen there is a fair bit of this going on too.

 

[Scuba]

Housing is the big killer in my area. My kids simply cannot afford to buy a home in this area, even a so-called starter home (50+ years old, 2 bedroom, 1 1/2 bath, 1200 sq ft on a small lot). And I can't afford to help them in any way that would produce a meaningful result.

But.... They both moved to lower priced states. One just bought her first home for $300,000 + closing costs (1600 sq ft, 2 baths, 3 bedrooms, a bonus room, descent yard, some modern upgrades). I was able to help in a meaningful way without jeopardizing my own situation. Back here, $300K would not be enough for a down payment that would leave a young person with an affordable monthly mortgage payment.

People need to be willing to move sometimes. My parents and grand parents moved about 5000 miles, from southern Italy to to Pennsylvania, and eventually to the then land of opportunity - California.

Thankfully, my children live in states that I consider to be in 'interesting' areas. I was fearful one or more would move to the state of (redacted), where I once spent a year of boredom while there for two weeks.

Yep, moving is a good solution for some. Surprised more aren’t doing it.

 

[Chuckanut]

But the teens aren't taking them. At least my niece and nephew (17 and 20), and their friends, are not. They are dog sitting, ($25 a visit, twice a day) babysitting ($20+ per hour) or dressing up as superman and princesses for $50 an hour birthday party gigs, and doing 3 or 4 of those or more most weekends.

My niece pulls enough managing these jobs over every summer and school break that she doesn't have to squeeze in a part time job making $10 an hour during the school year. When she comes home for breaks she lets her booker know she's available as Elsa or the little mermaid or whatever and off she goes.

This sounds like the marketplace at work.

I'm curious how long does a average dog sitting visit take? 30 min? one hour? two hours?

 

[ivinsfan]

This sounds like the marketplace at work.

I'm curious how long does a average dog sitting visit take? 30 min? one hour? two hours?

I'm guessing dog sitter might have travel expense, some feeding , some dog walking and then the fact the person needs to honest as well as reliable but it sounds like a good gig.

 

[PatrickA5]

Entry level jobs were never intended to pay the rent. They are there to get experience and then move up or move on.

These types of jobs are the only ones that a large number of adults are qualified to do. The kids don't want them anymore. They can make more money doing other things (or don't need to work).

My state was one of the first states to discontinue the expanded unemployment compensation. Supposedly, it was in order to get all of those workers back in the job market. Didn't happen. Not surprising for my state, though. We still have $7.25 minimum wage. SIL applied for a job at the YMCA wanting to pay $8.00/hr. She's not qualified for much better due to a lot of reasons.

 

[PatrickA5]

This sounds like the marketplace at work.

I'm curious how long does a average dog sitting visit take? 30 min? one hour? two hours?

My 63 year old SIL keeps dogs (mainly overnight). She charges $35 a night. We keep telling her she needs to charge more, but she won't listen. She makes enough (combined with disability) to manage a very meager living. She's not qualified to do much anything else.

 

[john1ellis]

Factors Related to Current Staffing Situation

We are experiencing one of the downsides of extremely low unemployment rates (currently around 3.5%). Employers are having trouble hiring enough competent staff. With a low unemployment rate, they have the choice of not hiring people, hiring fewer people or hiring very low-quality people - incompetent, lazy, poor attitude, poor customer service awareness, undependability, lack of basic job skills, not too bright, etc. When the unemployment rate is higher, many of these people would probably not get hired. Overall job performance and quality of service would probably be higher. Many economists suggest that a 5% unemployment is optimal. Most qualified people are able to get jobs and employers are not forced to hire extremely unqualified people. We have to acknowledge that some people are just not employable.

Another factor is changing demographics. As predicted, there are far fewer young people, people who typically seek and accept lower paying entry level jobs. We have been warned for decades that this would happen but somehow, we are surprised that it is actually happening. This demographic change has wide implications from colleges meeting enrollment goals, military recruitment challenges and having enough workers paying into Social Security. One consequence is that it is projected that hundreds of colleges will shut down in the next few years due to decreasing numbers of prospective students.

The complexity of the current job market is impacting childcare. The same labor crunch is making it difficult to hire childcare workers and is driving up the cost of childcare. Is it realistic or ethical to expect an under qualified single parent to take an entry level job when the low salary may not even cover the cost of childcare on top of other necessities such as housing, food and transportation? Employment should not result in a net negative financial situation.

Another factor is reduced immigration. Immigrants, legal and illegal, tend to have strong work ethics and are more likely to take jobs that are low paying, difficult and low prestige. Jobs that many of us look down upon.

Basically, we have to accept the consequences of reality, political decisions, and human nature. Low unemployment sounds good but there are consequences. Increased immigration, preferably legal, would help offset the consequences of changing demographics. The reality is that even illegal immigrants can be beneficial. They are the most likely to take the least desirable jobs, pay taxes and cannot seek Social Security or other government benefits. We need to rationally and responsibly promote laws and policies that will help us address the many complex challenges we face as a society.

I know that these issues are much more complex than my post suggests. Their complexity though suggests that they require more than simple political campaign slogans to solve. They require thoughtful solutions that should seek to avoid unanticipated negative consequences. As responsible citizens and human beings, we owe it to ourselves, our country and our society to strive to make the right decisions.

 

[harllee]

Great first post john1ellis! I think we are definitely seeing the negative impact of low immigration. In my opinion we need to let in more legal foreign guest workers to fill some of the jobs, especially in the service industry, construction, agriculture, medical, restaurant, retail, child care. We need hard working young people and if we cannot get them domestically we need to allow them to come from other countries.

 

[acronymous]

I know that these issues are much more complex than my post suggests. Their complexity though suggests that they require more than simple political campaign slogans to solve. They require thoughtful solutions that should seek to avoid unanticipated negative consequences. As responsible citizens and human beings, we owe it to ourselves, our country and our society to strive to make the right decisions.

+100

Alas, the easy answers of populism seems to be winning the votes here and abroad.

 

[Teacher Terry]

My retired friend moves into people’s homes to dog sit. She gets 50/day for one dog and 60 for 2. She guarantees that she is mostly home with the dogs which people like.

 

[NW-Bound]

Today is a Wednesday in the middle of the month. We drove into the nearest town (20k) to catch up on some errands this morning.
...
I had only non perishable items and after standing in line for ages ( the second entry point people invented was flatout line cutting) and watching people squabbling over line placement. I just left my cart and the store.
...
Need lunch and we find traffic heavy, go to MacDs drive through in a line of probably 15 cars. We would have gone inside but realize drive thru gets priority. Go to Aldi's and traffic just gets heavier and heavier. Aldi's backed up and low on stock.
...
Think about stopping at Target but the lot is virtually full decide to drive home.
...

Could it be that was the day government checks got deposited in people's bank accounts, SS payments, SSI, SNAP, what have you?

I remember some years ago reading about grocery stores being mobbed by people just getting some money.

One way to check out the above possibility is to come back on another Wednesday to see if the traffic is less.

 

[Chuckanut]

We are experiencing one of the downsides of extremely low unemployment rates (currently around 3.5%). Employers are having trouble hiring enough competent staff.

Judging from the number of healthy young people, both male and female, panhandling at street corners and freeway exits, the jobs must be few and far between. All those stores, restaurants and various small businesses must have forgotten to take their Help Wanted signs down.

 

[MichaelB]

There’s a recent Twitter thread where someone documents news reports of people stating “no one wants to work anymore” dating back to 1894

https://twitter.com/x/status/1549527748950892544

This is definitely something that is neither new nor original.

 

[john1ellis]

Judging from the number of healthy young people, both male and female, panhandling at street corners and freeway exits, the jobs must be few and far between. All those stores, restaurants and various small businesses must have forgotten to take their Help Wanted signs down.

Yes, I have seen the panhandlers. I am surprised at how many people give them money. I was stuck at a long traffic light recently and starting talking with a panhandler. He had been summoned over by several drivers who all appeared to give him money. I asked how business was and he showed me a wad of cash. It was probably mostly singles but I was still surprised. Perhaps the panhandlers are earning more money than a minimum wage job without having to expend much effort or follow any of the rules of a workplace. They also do not have to worry about those pesky drug tests. BTW, I don't give money to panhandlers but I do donate to the local rescue mission.

 

[Fermion]

Big sign at our Walmart, hiring, $18 an hour...yet right outside you have 3 or 4 healthy looking people in their 30s? holding signs saying hard times, please give us money.

 

[jimbee]

There’s a recent Twitter thread where someone documents news reports of people stating “no one wants to work anymore” dating back to 1894

https://twitter.com/x/status/1549527748950892544

This is definitely something that is neither new nor original.

Yep, old people complaining about young people is eternal.

 

[harllee]

Big sign at our Walmart, hiring, $18 an hour...yet right outside you have 3 or 4 healthy looking people in their 30s? holding signs saying hard times, please give us money.

Panhandlers can make more than $18 an hour and set their own hours and pay no tax. If people continue to give them money we will always have panhandlers.

 

[jollystomper]

Eh, I think there's a limit to how much technology can be introduced to the retail market. I use the self-service checkout at my local grocer all the time, but a growing number of customers are taking advantage of curbside pickup. I don't see robots running up and down the supermarket aisles filling grocery orders for some time -- especially while sharing the space with human shoppers.

Keep in mind the retail market store layout is slowly changing from being designed for humans to being designed for automated efficiency. Self-checkout is the first step. For robots to fill orders you do not need those items to be on display, they can be in more of a warehouse setting where they they do not have to share space with human shoppers. The issue becomes what percentage of a stores sales starts coming from curbside pickup.

For produce, one sees more produce being introduced with scannable stickers so one does not need to key in the name. That is just the start. AI technology exists for facial recognition; it can also exist for someone to just hold up a piece of produce and let the scanner figure out what it is.

I do not rule out, with enough sensors, the possibility of going to a store, filling up a cart, pushing the cart through a set of scanners and your order total being calculated (and even, based on your cart/phone settings, your account automatically charged. Technology is one of the few areas where cost has consistently fallen, and labor costs are going the other way... something like this might be closer that one thinks.