Executor's Fee

[brett]

I never even considered taking a fee. My view was that it was the last thing that I could do for my parents. They left their estate in good order. I had to complete the usual notification, complete Probate, submit the final tax returns, settle accounts, and distribute the balance equally between me and my sister.

 

[audreyh1]

Agreed that OP is doing this for his siblings, and if he is an equal heir, and no better off financially than his siblings, it seems an unfair burden - no matter that the others are far away. That doesn't matter. So some level of evening the playing field seems warranted.

I know my Dad’s estate is going to be a lot of work. I’ve simplified some of it as I mange his accounts now, but there is farm land involved, and siblings spread across the globe.

Since I got my Dad to write me out of his will in favor of my siblings, I’m not taking an executor fee, and there isn’t mention of one in the will anyway. I already gift to my still employed siblings, so I guess this will be another gift. They will have to make decisions about disposition of the property though. I’ll just be handling the transfer.

 

[ERD50]

I never even considered taking a fee. My view was that it was the last thing that I could do for my parents. They left their estate in good order. I had to complete the usual notification, complete Probate, submit the final tax returns, settle accounts, and distribute the balance equally between me and my sister.

That's fine if that works for you.

The OP's situation may be different. He has siblings - why aren't they doing their share of the work? I guess I don't see this as "doing it for the parents" - they are gone. OP is doing it for the living siblings.

It would help us to get some more info about the family dynamics. Why aren't the others stepping up? Distance? Are they incompetent?

If you look at the list of things that were done in the OP, that's a lot of work, and none of it is fun. Why should OP get 'stuck' with all this, why aren't others helping?

As I said, situations can be different. I did lots of things for my Mom when she went into Skilled Nursing and Assisted Living. One sibling is a mess, and just got in the way and complicated my life, another sibling is out of state (but he is retired, traveling world-wide, he could have been involved, he just didn't - other than to criticize some of my decisions, w/o even seeing what was going on), and the other sibling is much younger and dealing with his business and some family/personal issues. So I did that "for my Mom". Although I did somewhat resent that the others didn't or couldn't help, asking for compensation would have been more trouble than it was worth. Though I did keep good records of any expenses that I had that my Mom reimbursed me for. And I sent out records of that as they occurred - I wanted everything to be transparent on that, didn't want questions later.


DW and her sister do a lot for their Mom (other sibling is out of state). They also "do it for Mom", but yes, there is some tension that their out-of-state sibling (also retired and traveling) isn't around to help, ends up doing some things which just make work for them (sends gifts to the Mom that require effort to get set-up, or on-going attention). They don't want compensation, but I know it grates on them that the will is split evenly, and they are the ones doing all the work for many years now. Shopping, doctor's appointments, dealing with insurance, etc, etc, it all adds up to a LOT.

-ERD50

 

[gcgang]

My wife cared for her mother and was executor. Her sister came into town for a few days, loaded a UHaul and left. My wife took the fee. The sisters haven't spoken in fifteen years.

 

[Oz investor]

That's fine if that works for you.

The OP's situation may be different. He has siblings - why aren't they doing their share of the work? I guess I don't see this as "doing it for the parents" - they are gone. OP is doing it for the living siblings.

It would help us to get some more info about the family dynamics. Why aren't the others stepping up? Distance? Are they incompetent?

If you look at the list of things that were done in the OP, that's a lot of work, and none of it is fun. Why should OP get 'stuck' with all this, why aren't others helping?

As I said, situations can be different. I did lots of things for my Mom when she went into Skilled Nursing and Assisted Living. One sibling is a mess, and just got in the way and complicated my life, another sibling is out of state (but he is retired, traveling world-wide, he could have been involved, he just didn't - other than to criticize some of my decisions, w/o even seeing what was going on), and the other sibling is much younger and dealing with his business and some family/personal issues. So I did that "for my Mom". Although I did somewhat resent that the others didn't or couldn't help, asking for compensation would have been more trouble than it was worth. Though I did keep good records of any expenses that I had that my Mom reimbursed me for. And I sent out records of that as they occurred - I wanted everything to be transparent on that, didn't want questions later.


DW and her sister do a lot for their Mom (other sibling is out of state). They also "do it for Mom", but yes, there is some tension that their out-of-state sibling (also retired and traveling) isn't around to help, ends up doing some things which just make work for them (sends gifts to the Mom that require effort to get set-up, or on-going attention). They don't want compensation, but I know it grates on them that the will is split evenly, and they are the ones doing all the work for many years now. Shopping, doctor's appointments, dealing with insurance, etc, etc, it all adds up to a LOT.

-ERD50

as i understand it GalaxyBoy was appointed ( granted the honor , for lack of a better term ) to administer the estate .

maybe he was assessed as the most capable ( or most trust-worthy )

have there been complaints about his actual performance , apparently not .

would help from the siblings improve or detract from the current performance ... unknown

so from what we know this is a question about family dynamics and future relationships

also are there time limitations ( to administering the estate )

for example the unofficial wish of my mother ( since the will has never been found ) was i should keep the family home for at least 5 years ( i did that and put on a solar array to help reduce the ongoing expenses , and still have property currently as a renovation project )

 

[brett]

I guess see it differently. It would have made no difference to me if my sister do not do what I thought was her share while my parents were alive. That simply would not be a consideration for me.

We have always taken the position that it is our obligations to do as much as we reasonably do for our children. And to do the same for aging parents.

What my sister did not did not do never entered the equation for me. It was all about what I believed were my obligations to my parents and what they would have wanted.

 

[GalaxyBoy]

OP here. It's not as big a deal as some of the posters seem to have the impression that it is. Mea culpa if I gave that impression. As some have said, even though I say it's nothing I guess I'm concerned enough to ask the question, no?

I and my DB were named co-executors in the will. I perhaps oversimplified a bit by omitting that the third DB died ten years ago, and his share is split equally by his two sons. Dad didn't name them executors as they are still in their 20's (teens when the will was written) and live several hours away. Surviving DB declined to be co-executor because he lives on the other coast, and I'm local to my Dad. He is an ER accountant now, and moved back home after all this started. He helped with the tax return but screwed it up and I had to go back and file a 1040X.

DB was the one asking if I still planned to take the fee, and I've always been honest and transparent with him. I suspect SIL is actually the one prodding him to ask, and I don't think they want the money as much as she thinks I should give it to the nephews. Honestly, the nephews inherited the spendthrift traits of my late DB, and I think if I gave up the fee so they would get another couple grand each, that money wouldn't last the weekend. But that's another story.

One of the nephews actually went out of his way to tell me thanks for all I've done and that he thinks I've earned the fee. I also found paperwork from my late, spinster aunt's estate which my Dad was executor of. He took the fee and nobody ever thought poorly of him for doing so. I think he'd want his executor to do the same.

Anyway, I've already gotten too personal perhaps, and thanks again to all who've offered advice. I'm a bit surprised at how polarizing this issue seems to be, but each situation - and person and family - is different. This has been quite a bit of work. I have no idea how a working stiff would find the time to do all this!

 

[Oz investor]

OP here. It's not as big a deal as some of the posters seem to have the impression that it is. Mea culpa if I gave that impression. As some have said, even though I say it's nothing I guess I'm concerned enough to ask the question, no?

I and my DB were named co-executors in the will. I perhaps oversimplified a bit by omitting that the third DB died ten years ago, and his share is split equally by his two sons. Dad didn't name them executors as they are still in their 20's (teens when the will was written) and live several hours away. Surviving DB declined to be co-executor because he lives on the other coast, and I'm local to my Dad. He is an ER accountant now, and moved back home after all this started. He helped with the tax return but screwed it up and I had to go back and file a 1040X.

DB was the one asking if I still planned to take the fee, and I've always been honest and transparent with him. I suspect SIL is actually the one prodding him to ask, and I don't think they want the money as much as she thinks I should give it to the nephews. Honestly, the nephews inherited the spendthrift traits of my late DB, and I think if I gave up the fee so they would get another couple grand each, that money wouldn't last the weekend. But that's another story.

One of the nephews actually went out of his way to tell me thanks for all I've done and that he thinks I've earned the fee. I also found paperwork from my late, spinster aunt's estate which my Dad was executor of. He took the fee and nobody ever thought poorly of him for doing so. I think he'd want his executor to do the same.

Anyway, I've already gotten too personal perhaps, and thanks again to all who've offered advice. I'm a bit surprised at how polarizing this issue seems to be, but each situation - and person and family - is different. This has been quite a bit of work. I have no idea how a working stiff would find the time to do all this!

thanks, that clarifies a few things

your position would be an absolute nightmare in my family ( while they were alive ) i hope your outcome is better .

as the family black sheep ( but last surviving blood relative ) i dumped it all in the hands of a fastidious lawyer and took the result as a terrific windfall , i was just sick of the previous infighting

cheers and good luck

 

[iloveyoga]

I handled my MIL's estate while I was working FT and it most certainly was a lot of work and took quite a bit of time. Her estate was simple, but it still took time and I considered it to be a big responsibility.

 

[joeea]

The OP's situation may be different. He has siblings - why aren't they doing their share of the work?

Because only one is the executor?

 

[joeea]

I handled my MIL's estate while I was working FT and it most certainly was a lot of work and took quite a bit of time. Her estate was simple, but it still took time and I considered it to be a big responsibility.

Did you take 5% of her estate as compensation for your work?

 

[audreyh1]

Because only one is the executor?

Apparently not. The brother who lives far away declined to be co-executor as named in the will. And he is the one now asking about the fee.

 

[Texas Proud]

My wife cared for her mother and was executor. Her sister came into town for a few days, loaded a UHaul and left. My wife took the fee. The sisters haven't spoken in fifteen years.

Was it due to this or was it ongoing for some other reason?

 

[Texas Proud]

Will throw out a thought for you.... and take it or leave it as you see fit...


If you take a 'fee' of $15K and would inherit 1/3 rd of the estate, I would think about putting down $10K of income on the tax return and consider the other $5K as part of your inheritance...

 

[pb4uski]

..... I and my DB were named co-executors in the will. I perhaps oversimplified a bit by omitting that the third DB died ten years ago, and his share is split equally by his two sons. Dad didn't name them executors as they are still in their 20's (teens when the will was written) and live several hours away. Surviving DB declined to be co-executor because he lives on the other coast, and I'm local to my Dad. He is an ER accountant now, and moved back home after all this started. He helped with the tax return but screwed it up and I had to go back and file a 1040X. ...

I'm having an issue with your DB's attitude.... had he been willing to work with you in settling the estate as your dad intended then I presume that the two of you would have split the 5% fee built into the will. So he decides to dodge the work by declining to be co-executor and then insinuates that you should waive the fee! That seems to be the height of hypocrisy to me. His excuse that he ia not local is a cop out..... the reality is that there is a lot of work that an executor can do by phone and electronically but your DB didn't want to be bothered.

If you ultimately judge that the 5% is excessive given the effort involved in settling the estate you can always chose to waive part of it... in the meantime, if family ask you can say that you haven't decided and it will depend on how time consuming settling the estate is as you deserve something for your time and effort. As executor, you can delegate certain tasks to others if you wish, so you could say "You could help out by doing [whatever]"..... most likely they will claim they are too busy in which case you have your answer.

 

[ERD50]

I'm having an issue with your DB's attitude.... had he been willing to work with you in settling the estate as your dad intended then I presume that the two of you would have split the 5% fee built into the will. So he decides to dodge the work by declining to be co-executor and then insinuates that you should waive the fee! That seems to be the height of hypocrisy to me. His excuse that he ia not local is a cop out..... the reality is that there is a lot of work that an executor can do by phone and electronically but your DB didn't want to be bothered.

If you ultimately judge that the 5% is excessive given the effort involved in settling the estate you can always chose to waive part of it... in the meantime, if family ask you can say that you haven't decided and it will depend on how time consuming settling the estate is as you deserve something for your time and effort. As executor, you can delegate certain tasks to others if you wish, so you could say "You could help out by doing [whatever]"..... most likely they will claim they are too busy in which case you have your answer.

Agree ... with .... every .... single .... word.

-ERD50

 

[RobbieB]

That's why I told him to take the dough. Take all of it. Every last cent.

And blow that dough!

 

[joeea]

Will throw out a thought for you.... and take it or leave it as you see fit...


If you take a 'fee' of $15K and would inherit 1/3 rd of the estate, I would think about putting down $10K of income on the tax return and consider the other $5K as part of your inheritance...

Executors have a fiduciary responsibility to the estate and beneficiaries.

Gaming the inheritance for tax avoidance probably isn't a good idea.

 

[joeea]

split the 5% fee built into the will.

If you ultimately judge that the 5% is excessive given the effort involved in settling the estate you can always chose to waive part of it...

5% isn't in the will.

The compensation for an executor isn't specified in a will, it's a maximum set by the state. Here, the OP's state apparently allows an executor to be compensated up to 5%. That appears to come out to $100 - $125 per hour or so, based on the OP's posts.

If you want an individual to get "something extra" for any reason, that can be specified in your will. But that does not appear to be the case here.

 

[Oz investor]

5% isn't in the will.

The compensation for an executor isn't specified in a will, it's a maximum set by the state. Here, the OP's state apparently allows an executor to be compensated up to 5%. That appears to come out to $100 - $125 per hour or so, based on the OP's posts.

If you want an individual to get "something extra" for any reason, that can be specified in your will. But that does not appear to be the case here.

but neither a set wind-down date
the two sons of the deceased brother might need further administrative help , the other surviving brother could be cashed out or receive the inheritance in say bonds or ETFs ...

OP wonders about how fiscally responsible the two younger males would be ( and at say 40 , i , myself would have be a scary example of spending without caring , it is less than $100K each , after all ... not enough to buy a house )

 

[Music Lover]

I'm having an issue with your DB's attitude.... had he been willing to work with you in settling the estate as your dad intended then I presume that the two of you would have split the 5% fee built into the will. So he decides to dodge the work by declining to be co-executor and then insinuates that you should waive the fee! That seems to be the height of hypocrisy to me. His excuse that he ia not local is a cop out..... the reality is that there is a lot of work that an executor can do by phone and electronically but your DB didn't want to be bothered.

If you ultimately judge that the 5% is excessive given the effort involved in settling the estate you can always chose to waive part of it... in the meantime, if family ask you can say that you haven't decided and it will depend on how time consuming settling the estate is as you deserve something for your time and effort. As executor, you can delegate certain tasks to others if you wish, so you could say "You could help out by doing [whatever]"..... most likely they will claim they are too busy in which case you have your answer.

Agree 100%.

A few people have stated that $15k isn't worth breaking up families over...I agree, but also think that it works both ways, so in my case, if there was a $300k estate and one of my siblings had a 5% provision and did all or the majority of the work wrapping up the estate, I'd be perfectly fine with that.

 

[Texas Proud]

Executors have a fiduciary responsibility to the estate and beneficiaries.

Gaming the inheritance for tax avoidance probably isn't a good idea.

What I suggested has zero to do with the estate or beneficiaries.... it has to to with the Executor and the IRS... period...

 

[CaliforniaMan]

I was executor of my mother's estate and chose not to take any fee. It was a pretty simple estate and I hired a lawyer to handle the paperwork. He wanted to charge the statutory maximum fee, I told him I would pay him his hourly rate, and he reluctantly agreed. (I guess no matter how simple the estate, they charge the state max, ugh).


For your case, you will get $5000 of that $15000 anyway, so if you charge the max you will only get $10,000 more. Plus you have to pay federal, state and sometimes local taxes, so for sake of argument, say you will finally get $8000.


Even if you have to do more work than them for me this amount would not be worth upsetting the family at a time when you should all be coming together.


One solution would be just to itemize your expenses and keep the others informed as you go along. Maybe suggest that they each contribute their third of the expenses. They would probably then agree just to take the expenses out of the estate, as your fee.


You don't get a chance to have more siblings, even if they are wrong, they are family. After the fees I would just tell them that you are giving your fee as a gift to the family. Just my thoughts.

 

[Music Lover]

Even if you have to do more work than them for me this amount would not be worth upsetting the family at a time when you should all be coming together.

Working together requires everyone to work together, not one person to cave to other's demands.

 

[ERD50]

... Even if you have to do more work than them for me this amount would not be worth upsetting the family at a time when you should all be coming together. ...

But who is upsetting the family? The one doing all the work, and thinking of taking the fee, or the one who declined to help, but also (apparently) thinks the other should take no fee?

'Family' works both ways.

... You don't get a chance to have more siblings, even if they are wrong, they are family. ... Just my thoughts.

I'll say it again - 'Family' works both ways. There are plenty of examples of people who would be far better off w/o certain family members in their lives. That's a nice sounding platitude, but it isn't always a reflection of real life.

-ERD50